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Old 05-15-2009, 09:36 AM   #1
Trust OP
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Location: pines & sand, NC
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Trust vs. the Goldwing [hack]

Prologue

I'm a self-proclaimed geek and sucker for projects. So when my friend informed me that her old iBook G3 was functioning on the level of a doorstop, I offered to buy it from her for $100. I'm also a haggler and trader. The iBook had multiple issues, but first it needed a new harddrive. Enter an old roommate who had some spare laptop drives (2.5") lying around. I traded him my old router w/ 9dB corner antenna that I got for less than $25 after mail-in rebate for a 40GB drive. iBook + drive + weekend = one newly functioning laptop. This thing was still a brick - you couldn't move the lid once you openned it, or the backlight thought you'd closed the thing and would shut off, but the LCD kept functioning. What a piece of work. But hey - for $125, it kept me in touch with the world during a year of travels and travails. I finally got sick of it, bought one of the first intel iMacs and put the iBook on Craigslist. No dice in months, despite many "interested" parties. ("Yeah man, I want your laptop, here, trade me this sic set of speakers man...." )

In the meantime, I'd gotten hungry for another motorcycle project, and when the guys didn't bite in the trade for the paintball gear, I emailed a fellow who had been repeatedly posting his "Non-running goldwing with sidecar," and proposed an even trade. He seemed more excited about it than I was (which is impressive ). I grabbed a friend's trailer and we took the ride out to meet the bike and show the owner the laptop. He was satisfied, and since his ad was for $300, we wrote up the paperwork as a $300 purchase. [YFF's do what you want, I feel honesty is the best way to go.] (He didn't know I got the laptop for $125... )

So - paperwork done, we loaded up the trailer (and SUV) with the bike, hack, and parts, and drove it home!


That was.... a while ago. I'll keep the rest of this first post available to do any indexing necessary.

Oh, specs: Bike is a 1982 Goldwing (GL1100 I think) with unknown type of hack.
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Old 05-15-2009, 09:41 AM   #2
Trust OP
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Wink Round 2

Yes, there was no Round 1. Well - there was, but I didn't take many, if any, pictures - because at that point I was just pushing through and seeing what could be done. I didn't realize it would come to what it has.

So we'll pick up with our hero in mid-April. At this point he's realized: The engine is stuck. The pistons won't budge, and he probably fried something starter-related when stubbornly trying to start it without drenching the thing in PB-Blaster. He's also learned that a fully-faired bike is a PAIN to strip, especially one that sat outside under a loosely secured cover for two years.

By mid-April (this year), I had the fairings off, the valve covers and valves off (after the failed attempt to break free the motor), and finally accepted that the engine would be coming out of the frame ... at least the cylinders needed work, if nothing else.





Did I mention it was stored outside?



Yeah; outside and under a cover - that leaked enough so that when we picked it up water ran out from some crevice in which it had been collecting.
Here's another shot of the right side cylinders:



Thanks to Nemo DeNovo and his Dnepr Ressurection, I got some inspiration and hope to keep going on this project, or it likely would not have made it past the point of opening up the cylinders and finding that gunk. I don't need any more projects....
See what I mean?



But hey - it cost me basically $125!!! I can't not try!!!


So I beat on it for the beginning of April, trying to get the valve covers off. I finally got them off, and found the aforementiond goo. First attempt to get the pistons moving was two weeks straight of PB-Blaster around the pistons, and beating on them with a wood block and hammer. Yeah, no dice. Then I added heat! ... still no dice. Okay screw it, I'm just going to have to pull the pistons off.

No problem, did it with the DR650 - how much harder can it be with a GoldWing???








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Old 05-15-2009, 10:27 AM   #3
Trust OP
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Round 3

I finally gave in and started taking pictures when I realized what I'd gotten myself into.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trust
Okay screw it, I'm just going to have to pull the pistons off.
No problem, did it with the DR650 - how much harder can it be with a GoldWing???
Never, ever, EVER say those words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clymer Manual
On the great and noble GoldWing, to remove the cylinders, one must split the case.
Uhhhhh, say what?? I didn't sign up for this! $#&%, yes I did. Excellent. Turns out, on the great and noble GoldWing, when one wishes to remove split the case, one must also split the frame. :Eek Are you for real? How the heck to split the frame? Read the manual dummy. This was when I decided to take some pics and share with all YFFs

This is the front point where the frame comes apart. [Keep in mind, by this point, I've removed the exhaust, fairings, and engine guards. If you ever decide to repeat what I've done, those removals alone can take a day or more.] Remove the nut and the acorn nut, and it should pop right off, right? Hah. Sure.



With the front point loose (those are through-bolts, they stay on the part of the frame that will remain), it was time for the rear-points. Here's a shot of them. Note: My camera sucks. I got it from the same friend that I got the laptop from, when she was done using the camera. I got the camera for free. Deal with it. Or you can buy me a new one!



Dead center of that image there are actually two bolts like on the front. I know, it doesn't look like it, that's because 1, the image sucks, and 2, there's a footrest in the way! I had avoided taking that footrest off because the nut holding it on there - well - here, I'll just show you.



See that nut just above and right-of center in the image? There's about 1.5mm of clearance between that nut and the footrest. What a pain to get off. Well that nut was also holding the removeable portion of the frame. So it had to come off. Patience young grasshoppah... Okay Mister Miyagi, it's off, now what? Now, you grind away the spacer that has rusted to the bolt behind it. What? Yes, Trust-San, you use your trusty dremel and three cut off wheels to grind your way through the rusted spacer which has now affixed itself to the through-bolt holding the removeable frame to the main frame.




Fraaaaack.




You'll notice that I'm using a flashlight instead of a flash. That's because my camera eats batteries for lunch as soon as the flash is even enabled. So unless it's a high-importance shot, y'all are gett'n ambient light... or a flashlight if necessary.

Three cutting wheels on the dremel, two nostrils full of steel dust, and one hour later, the sucker comes loose, and then I pry it off. The removeable portion of the frame follows suit.


(That image also shows the left side cylinders. The wetness is residual PB-Blaster.)
I literally yelled "Hallelujia!" I was so relieved this thing was even off, I wasn't thinking about how much there's left to be done. Here's an image of the threads from that bolt that the spacer was rusted on to. I think I'm going to need a die to clean that up a bit.



Okay - now we just "support the engine with a floor jack" and slide the thing right out! When am I going to learn? I have a craftsman roly jack that's not exactly a scissor jack, but it is a lever-type, not a bottle type. I could barely get the jack under the engine with a 2x4 in there to protect the block, and had one heck of a time balancing the engine on the jack. I start trying to maneuver, and realize "Something is not right here." Well - first thing's first: check the manual!







Freaking camera. It says
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Manual
Disconnect the neutral switch wire as soon as it is accessible.
Great, where's that? According the the blurry manual, it should be "somewhere near" one of those two bottom places that those numbers are pointing to. There's nothing in either of those places on my bike. So I do the next best thing - go hunting. This looks like it might be it!



But the manual wants me to disconnect it at the engine .... I see no way to do so. So instead I use the quick release connecters further up the line.



Fantastic, manual says it's loose, let's move it! .... It won't budge. Well - it wil budge, but not MOVE. Um, okay - .... let's try totally removing some of those motor mounts that I simply disconnected earlier. Here's one! I took out the lower bolt earlier, but what happens if I remove the other two bolts as well, and take off the whole brace??



Hey, it moves for real now! ... no wait, it doesn't, it just moves more. Fraaack. Seriously, wtf???
Some more poking around reveals that another motor mount that I had removed the bolt from before was still sticking. The right-side rear motor mount, shown below. I whacked it good with a wood block and hammer, and wahooooooo! The motor's free!!



Now I can just slide the whole thing over to the pallet, using the craftsman jack - oooooooh sh1t! Something is hung up! .... The manual says to disconnect the clutch cable at the motor. (Said cable is conveniently located in the above image.) I looked and looked and looked and looked ... and really couldn't figure it out. So instead I disconnected it at the clutch lever, but didn't de-route the cable. Well now it's hung up and almost pulls the motor off the jack. Okay, de-route the cable and set the thing on the pallet.



And now that the engine is out - it turns out that I really could have disconnected the cable at the engine; I was looking way too hard. I found the spot I was looking for and disconnected the cable. Whoops, chalk another up to experience.




Next, SPLITTING THOSE CASES!!!!












Oh, and yes - there *is* a hack buried in here! .... somewhere....
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Old 05-15-2009, 10:36 AM   #4
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put a Subaru engine in there and call it done
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Old 05-15-2009, 10:48 AM   #5
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Eh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMenace
put a Subaru engine in there and call it done
For realz?
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Old 05-15-2009, 11:09 AM   #6
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I've seen it done. Don't have any details, but it probably wouldn't be any harder than bringing that lump of rust back to life
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Old 05-15-2009, 05:45 PM   #7
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Hey Trust

Why not find a used low mileage GL1100 motor that works? I found one at a salvage yard for $400 with 30k on it. I now have 60k+ on it, and all I had to do was pull the old motor out and put the new one in.

If you're in need, I still have my old '81 GL1100 motor. It had low compression, used oil at high rpm, and it sometimes would slip out of maybe 3rd gear. It towed a sidecar, and had 85k on the motor when I pulled it. It was running when I pulled it, and has been stored in a dry unheated shed. I'll sell it cheap for parts if interested.

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Old 05-16-2009, 06:49 AM   #8
claude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS
Hey Trust

Why not find a used low mileage GL1100 motor that works? I found one at a salvage yard for $400 with 30k on it. I now have 60k+ on it, and all I had to do was pull the old motor out and put the new one in.

If you're in need, I still have my old '81 GL1100 motor. It had low compression, used oil at high rpm, and it sometimes would slip out of maybe 3rd gear. It towed a sidecar, and had 85k on the motor when I pulled it. It was running when I pulled it, and has been stored in a dry unheated shed. I'll sell it cheap for parts if interested.

MikeS

Gotta agree with Mike. There are GL1100 engines and even complete bikes out there at good prices. Good enough to make doing a real rebuild on an exisitng one questionable.
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Old 05-16-2009, 12:42 PM   #9
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The rust on those gears doesn't look bad enough to cause a problem. Use a small wire brush to clean it off. As long as there's no serious pitting of the gear teeth it'll be fine, some discoloration is OK. If you undo the rods on the pistons that are stuck, then you can pull the crank and the tranny shafts and get everything else out of the case. Mark the rods & caps and don't mix them up, they are not interchangeable. You may have to use a press to get the stuck pistons out, be careful to get the piston centered under the press when you do it. If the piston cocks in the cylinder when you press it, you could break something. Also, support both edges of the case completely while pressing so you don't warp the case.

I agree it would be easier to just change the engine, but that one can be saved with a new set of pistons. I'd recommend boring it to the first oversize tho, just to be sure all the rust pitting is gone.

A Subaru engine ain't going to work unless you put a BMW/Ural/Dnepr/Chang tranny behind it, cause yours is part of the engine. It would be alot of fun tho, you can get well over 200 horsepower out of a Subaru 4 cylinder. But it would be hell to kickstart, so BMW or Ural trans would be your best bet
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Old 05-18-2009, 07:38 AM   #10
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Thumb Thanks for the Advice

Excellent guys, thanks for the advice. And while I think the subaru engine would be awesome, the used GL drop in just seems like a good choice.

I found this on eb@y today: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=120420578372

The ebay item is from a 1982, the bike I have is a 1983. They seemed to be awefully darn close from everything I could find in the pictures; anyone know the interchangeability of an '82 and an '83?
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Quote:
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If you dont remember, sky, ground,sky,ground,sky, ground, treeeeeee! You passed out.
Quote:
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YOOOOOOOOOLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
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Old 05-18-2009, 08:24 AM   #11
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I'd mine the Goldwing sites for info. Some years seemed to eat the alternators and you had to split the cases to fix them. I think they improved the design later, but I have no firsthand knowledge. I'd figure out the best year that looks like it fits and go looking for that motor.
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Old 05-18-2009, 08:52 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trust
Excellent guys, thanks for the advice. And while I think the subaru engine would be awesome, the used GL drop in just seems like a good choice.

I found this on eb@y today: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=120420578372

The ebay item is from a 1982, the bike I have is a 1983. They seemed to be awefully darn close from everything I could find in the pictures; anyone know the interchangeability of an '82 and an '83?
1980 ,1981 and 1982 Goldwings were probably the fastest off the mark Carburated Wings made. The 1983 wing had a lower gear ratio than
the first three years.

ie. at 100 kilometres and hour (64 mph) the tach on the first three years of Goldwings will read 4000 rpm.

With the 1983 Wing that engine will be turning over at 3400 rpm for the same 64 mph.

Which in theory is somewhat better for hauling a sidecar. Lower RPM< more torque.

Now...althugh you're well into it and I have no idea where you dwell...

I have sitting here a pristine 1981 Honda Goldwing Interstate
for sale. Pristine in that it runs and is in regular use.
it has 150,000 mies on the clock, doesn't burn oil and goes like stink.

And it has had in its past had a Hedingham sidecar mounted.

The bike runs, very well.

I'll take US$2100 for it...and I am located an hour from the uS-Canadian border...

tallnbig68 screwed with this post 05-18-2009 at 08:58 AM
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Old 07-04-2009, 09:15 PM   #13
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__________________
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Quote:
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If you dont remember, sky, ground,sky,ground,sky, ground, treeeeeee! You passed out.
Quote:
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Old 07-04-2009, 09:36 PM   #14
Wngnut
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Yeah..... She runs again!!! I assume you are going to put the sidecar back on? Thanks for sharing.
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Old 07-05-2009, 11:20 AM   #15
Trust OP
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Talking Long time comin'

So there's an album of the project here, if any of you want to just view pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/detsurt/...eat=directlink


When we left off, I was going to buy a new motor, instead of hone the cylinders and reassemble the engine that I gutted.
I went on ebay, hoping to get something dirt cheap - found an engine just outside of Pittsburgh for around two hundred. I missed that auction by hours due to some birthday partying. No mind though, it was an engine from an '82, and that might not have been a direct drop-in. The following weeks had me track down an '83 in Eastern Ohio, and I had a friend pick it up for me after the sale completed. (Saved me $300 in shipping!) So he drove the engine up here, and we spent the weekend putting it in. 15 minutes before he left, we hooked up jumper cables to the car (the GL battery was dead - I found this out after leaving it on the charger to trickle... ) - and she fired up!


The long story:

The tub is in good condition, I snapped a few pictures of it before...


But before we can pull the tub, gotta get the tug runnin'!

The engine arrives late Friday afternoon.


Cue Angelic Chorus:



Cue ominous sounding dark chorus:



First: Tie everything that hangs in the way, out of the way! Run all the cables you can. Hoses too, get them as close as possible.


That thing's goin in that hole. After much wiggling, finagling, and coaxing, it's in. Really - it was several hours of wiggling, finagling, and coaxing.



If you ever have to do this, it's worth it to mention; the engine doesn't have to be level - in fact, the rear is slightly more elevated than the front; we ended up proping it up with a scrap board.



Remember to keep everything tied up out of your way (including the fuel pump)



This bolt in on the right side of the frame - it goes in first. Once this one is in, it's much easier going. It took some persuading with a big bar...



The upper engine mount (triangle with three chrome bolts) can stay on the right side of the frame. Taking the left one off helps in removal. As soon as you can, get the left one back on, and use the bottom of the three chrome bolts as your second point to secure the engine to the frame.



Note: I haven't reinstalled the frame rail (left side of frame) yet.
Here's the left side upper engine mount. If you have to take the engine back out to move something once it's in, remember: You have to remove this piece again!



In our case, we had neglected to grab the vacuum hose seen at the top of this picture (the picture is the rear case of the old engine). We were trying to figure out what the vacuum hose could be for, since it wasn't connected to anything when I got the bike originally. A veteran Honda mech said it was for the timing advance - and attaches to the carburetor.
This is the beast of a carburetor. Holy cow. The thing had to be partially assembled, then inserted into the frame, then assembled the rest of the way. If you've done an older goldwing carb before; you know there are these plastic rings that make the seal in the throat of the piston that operates the needle. I suppose these are better than easily broken bladders, but ... well there are bladders there anyway, they're just in a different spot. And yes, I could probably go back in and redo the bladders and it would be good, as they were on their way out....



Don't forget to plug the intake and sparkplug holes: my partner in crime reminded me that we didn't want to be taking apart this engine to find a wayward piece of anything.



Connect the throttle and choke cables. Man - those things are a bear. Cheers for nimble fingers. ... and to think - I have to take it all apart to put the carb rebuild kits in .... I'm getting ahead of myself though...



In and all hooked up. Oil filled (new filter ordered), new plugs (autolites) in (NGK's ordered), Coolant system filled with water (no point in wasting antifreeze if there's a leak) - I'll just flush it all later anyway, tank cleaned out of as much old gas as possible (use a shopvac with hose on the blower nozzle to put positive pressure in the filler hole, and just drain the regular feeder hose into the waste container - worked like a charm!), new gas in and starter fluid ready.





Fire in the hole....



Yeeeeeaaaaahhhh!!!
It runs!!



Let it run for a few minutes to get everything circulating, check for leaks, and shut it off.





Turns out there's some gas leaking from the carbs, there's oil burning off the pipes, and a little bit of water coming out of the coolant system (hose clamp that wasn't quite tight enough, or small enough). No major explosions, or other errors, and it runs! On the list now:


Rebuild the carbs
Rebuild the brakes
Oil filter change (change the oil again?)
Proper hose clamps on the coolant system (and fill with antifreeze)
Possibly replace the tires (car tire on the rear?)
Tighten the handlebars
.....



More pictures via that first link, if you're interested.
__________________
Buy my DR350 and it's twin project DR350
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Quote:
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If you dont remember, sky, ground,sky,ground,sky, ground, treeeeeee! You passed out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geek View Post
YOOOOOOOOOLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Give me riding.
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