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Old 07-30-2010, 01:12 AM   #1
bigalsmith101 OP
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Yamaha WR250R vs Honda XR650L vs Suzuki DR650

Ok guys, I'm asking for some personal experience, thoughtful advice, or prominent points of interests that I may have not mentioned, left out, or forgotten. The question is about the durability, reliability, financial investment, and overall value between three bikes. The Yamaha WR250R, Honda XR650L, and Suzuki DR650.

Yamaha WR250R
WR250R

Honda XR650L
XR650L

Suzuki DR650
Dr650

First and foremost, the trip will involve the following.

In 2 years, three of us are traveling around the entire world. We will be riding from our home town, just north of Seattle, to the northernmost part of Alaska. We will then ride down to the bottom of South America, hitting every country along the way in meandering fashion before we ship the bikes from Buenos Aires to South Africa. We will ride up the east coast of Africa to the northern countries and ferry across to Southwestern Europe. From Southern Europe we will ride to the northernmost part of Norway before looping back and riding towards Southeastern Europe and heading through Turkey, Georgia, Russia and into the Stans. From there, it becomes a bit fuzzy. We will either ride south, and head towards India and South East Asia, or we will head East towards Mongolia and the Road of Bones. If we head east, we will ship from Vladivostok to Vietnam and tour Southeast Asia from there. From Southeast Asia we will head south towards Malaysia and Indonesia, where we will reach East Timor where we can then ship to Darwin, Australia. We will tour Australia, ship to New Zealand, tour NZ and then ship home to Seattle.

In total we will ride through approximately 65 countries, cover approximately 65,000 miles, across 6 continents, and over the course of roughly 25 months. Our route looks similar to the picture below.



Secondly, we are each are each of nearly the same, yet different sizes. I (Alex) am 6’6” and 210lbs, with a 36.5” inseam. Tom is 6’2” and 185lbs, with a 33” inseam. Kristi is 5’9” and 155lbs, with a 31” inseam. Each bike will fit Tom or I just fine. Kristi’s bike will need to be lowered. Not an issue. Weight is no problem for her either. In effect, we can each ride any of the bikes just fine with simple modifications.

Our first goal is to reach a mutual decision concerning which bike we will ride around the world. We will all ride the same bike to ensure that we have ample spare parts, combined knowledge of the motorcycle, and be able to ensure preventative maintenance is carried out regularly. The benefit of riding the same bike, for us, easily and significantly outweighs riding our own personal favorites.

After doing my own research, and having conferred with the other two riders we decided between the three of us that we'd prefer a sturdy, off road worthy motorcycle that has the least chance of letting us down and leaving us stranded somewhere in the middle of nowhere.

Our key points so far are listed below

bigalsmith101 screwed with this post 07-30-2010 at 01:46 AM
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Old 07-30-2010, 01:33 AM   #2
bigalsmith101 OP
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continued

Our key points are listed below:

Xs represent Cons, and Os represent Pros. Two Os are better than one O. But you already knew that now didnt you?


All specs are for stock bikes with no mods

Stats Pros/Cons

XR650L DR650 WR250R XR650L DR650 WR250R

Weight 346lbs 356lbs 298lbs X X O
Tank Size 2.8gl 3.4gl 2.0gl X X X
Tank Range 112-150mi 153-187mi 100-120mi X X XX
After Market Tank 5.8gl 6.6 4.5gl O OO O
Max Tank Range 290 330 279 O OO O
Fuel Economy 45-55 45-55 55-65mpg O O OO
Sub Frame Steel Steel Steel O O O
Comp Ratio 8.3:1 9.5:1 11.8:1 O OO OOO
Fuel System Carb Carb Fuel Injected O O X
Cooling System Air Cooled Air Cooled Water Cooled O O X
Rear Wheel 18" 17" 18" O X O
Front Wheel 21" 21" 21" O O O
Seat Height 37.0" 34.8" 36.6" O X O
Ground Clearance 13.0" 10.4" 11.8" OO O O
2008 Model Cost Avg 3,500.00 3,500.00 4,200.00 O O X
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Old 07-30-2010, 01:35 AM   #3
bigalsmith101 OP
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To sum it up

To sum it up:

The 650’s are both at least 50lbs heavier stock, and to attain the same fuel range, our goal is set at 250 miles, the 650’s need an extra gallon, or 6.25lbs. The WR250R therefore has roughly a 60lb weight advantage.

The 650s are both air cooled and carbureted and so are less to worry about, but more difficult at higher altitudes, i.e. South America, parts of the Stans, and Europe. Can run “battery-less”

The WR250R is water cooled and fuel injected. Puncture a radiator in a fall, and you’re into some money. Fuel pump fails = money. Fuel injection fails = going nowhere. It must operate on a battery.

Seat heights are not much of an issue. Tom and I like the higher seat heights as we are both taller than average. Kristi enjoys the shorter height available after lowering any of the bikes. So it’s of no concern.

We’d prefer to run a 21” front and 18” rear wheel which puts the Dr650 at a disadvantage unless modified. Not impossible.

Shipping Costs: The heavier, larger bikes will cost more to ship, and our major shipping destinations are not small. Buenos Aires to South Africa, Ferry from Africa to Europe, (Possibly Vladivostok, Russia to Vietnam), East Timor to Darwin AUS, Syndey AUS to New Zealand, NZ to Seattle. Over all, it will be cheaper to ship smaller, lighter, less dimensional bikes.

Fuel Economy: The WR250r can obtain nearly 10 more miles per gallon then the 650’s. Over the course of 65,000 miles, at an average cost of $3.00/gl, the savings reaches nearly $800. The better the mileage difference, and the higher the price of fuel, the larger the savings will be for the WR250r.

The 650’s have been tried and true, and each has been ridden around the world successfully on multiple accounts with the trophy going to the DR650 for the sheer number of riders who choose that bike. Personal friends of mine have ridden the XR650L 30,000 miles around the planet with no major defects. The 250 however, from my research does not seem to have been ridden on immensely long journeys such as this one. It is ONLY 2 years old however, and much can happen in the 2 more years before we depart.

OK. So having said all of this, and putting forth what I know about the bikes, and all that other jazz. What do you guy/gals think about them? I’d like to hear things like, “availability of spare parts”,“reliability issues”, “what you think it’d cost to properly modify the bikes for RTW travel”, “necessary modifications for one bike that aren’t necessary for the others”, and things like that.

Which bike would you ride around the world for 2 years, 65,000 miles, 6 continents, and 65 countries? These bikes will be our homes, livelihood, and mode of transportation.

The bank is open; give me your two cents please! Thanks!

--Alex, Tom, and Kristi

Also, Here are a few pics of who we are.

Alex (thats me) 23yrs old for now. In an ice cave, Mendenhall Glacier, Juneau Alaska. Chewing an Apple.
Alex

Kristi (Alex's significant other of 3 years) 21yrs old for now, hiking under an ice cave in Mendenhall Glacier, Juneau Alaska
Kristi


Tom (Alex's friend of 15 years, fellow Eagle Scout) 23yrs old for now. A rip roaring, non afraid to follow my lead, EPIC, born in the wrong decade, MAN.
Tom

bigalsmith101 screwed with this post 07-30-2010 at 02:11 AM
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Old 07-30-2010, 09:43 AM   #4
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Maybe look at this another way....

a lot of what you have listed has no real impact on the bikes ability to move you and your stuff--which is the real key. What you don't want is to be stranded\stopped by mechanical or terrain issues--my assumption.
Given that I would list the things that will stop you--flat tires, bad fuel, difficult terrain, engine failure etc. Get that list and then weight it for importance on a scale say 0 to 1 with 1 being very important. Some examples....

Ease of flat tire repair --would be on my list, with an importance of say .8

Starts with dead batt by bump starting--importance 1

Runs on bad\low octane fuel--importance say 1

Frame can be Welded with electric or gas say .5

No special tools required say .6

Local availability of parts (how common is the bike worldwide) 1

Very similar to what you have started but weighted and focused on what is really important--to keep moving in inhospitable places with only local support.









Quote:
Originally Posted by bigalsmith101
Our key points are listed below:

Xs represent Cons, and Os represent Pros. Two Os are better than one O. But you already knew that now didnt you?




All specs are for stock bikes with no mods



StatsPros/Cons



XR650LDR650WR250RXR650LDR650WR250R



Weight346lbs356lbs298lbsXXO
Tank Size2.8gl3.4gl2.0glXXX
Tank Range112-150mi153-187mi100-120miXXXX
After Market Tank5.8gl6.64.5glOOOO
Max Tank Range290330279OOOO
Fuel Economy45-5545-5555-65mpgOOOO
Sub FrameSteel Steel SteelOOO
Comp Ratio8.3:19.5:111.8:1OOOOOO
Fuel SystemCarbCarbFuel InjectedOOX
Cooling SystemAir CooledAir Cooled Water CooledOOX
Rear Wheel 18"17"18"OXO
Front Wheel21"21"21"OOO
Seat Height37.0"34.8"36.6"OXO
Ground Clearance13.0"10.4"11.8"OOOO
2008 Model Cost Avg3,500.00 3,500.00 4,200.00 OOX


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Old 08-01-2010, 11:58 AM   #5
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I owned the DR650 for about 40,000 miles, and rode the Trans-America Trail with it, alongside a friend on the XR650L. I've only test-ridden the WR250R, but have been following it's progress very intently here and on other forums. I've crossed North America several times, Mexico a couple times, and rode from Canada to South America and back - those experiences lead me to these conclusions:

I'd take a WR250R in a heartbeat, but ONLY if I packed very light (which I now do). My gear, including weight of the soft luggage, is about 40-45 pounds (with no camping gear), and includes tools, spare tubes, and everything I'd ever need. Much more weight and it would cancel the 250's positive's and fun factor - it's light weight, handling, and fuel economy.

The XR650L the friend rode is a very solid machine. He shipped it from the U.K. to Toronto, and rode it to the start of the Trans-America Trail in Tenessee. He said that hiway ride was very uncomfortable and he hated it. I have some experience riding the Honda, and found it adequate for hiways of any kind, but was not nearly as enjoyable as the WR250R or the DR650R. He also had issues with the subframe and battery compartment as listed earlier in this thread - as well as the mounts for his big Acerbis tank which seemed weak. All in all though, I wouldn't hesitate to take that bike around the world. It's comfortable enough, reliable enough, and fun to ride. It'll handle any rough roads you want to throw at it for sure, but it DOES feel signifigantly more top heavy than the other two, which could be a big factor for the smallest member of your group.

My first choice would definitely be the DR650. Much has been said about the KLR650 being a better hiway bike, but after riding a 2006 (older generation) and then a 2008 (new generation) KLR650 back to back with the DR650 on several occasions, I find the DR650 to be superior in almost every way on the hiway and absolutely superior offroad. The new KLR is a closer match (on the hiway only) to be honest, but just felt like such a BIG bike (and I'm 6'4" and 230 pounds). I rode my DR650 from Edmonton, Alberta to the start of the Trans-America trail via Chicago, New York City, and Washington D.C.. It was smooth and comfortable all day long - I did the 2500 miles to New York in 5 days, averaging just below 50mpg. For me, the DR650 would be the best "do it all comfortably" bike of the three you've chosen, regardless of how you pack it or what terrain you use it on. It's also VERY easy to service and get spare parts for, and is extremely reliable.

Going through your chart, here are my comments/experience on some points:

WEIGHT - If you're able to pack VERY light like I do, the WR250R would be extremely enjoyable to me on a trip like you're doing.

TANK SIZE/RANGE - only on one portion of the Trans-America Trail is a range of 175 miles needed. Everywhere else I've ever traveled to in North, Central, and South America a 200 mile overall range has been more than sufficient. However, more range is always a plus for peace of mind and those "what if" situations.

FUEL ECONOMY - the 3 XR650L's that I've been around got closer to 40mpg average. My DR and two others from close experience got 50mpg or better on the highway and 45-ish offroad (mid to high 30's if you were pushing it VERY hard). The WR250R will get better mileage UNLESS it's loaded up or being pushed, then it will suffer.

SUB FRAME: The DR's subframe will be adequate for whatever you load it with. The XR's, from what I've seen and heard are not quite as robust but will do fine if you keep the weights moderate - other's with more immediate experience may tell you more. The WR's appears to be as strong as the XR's if not better, but again, it's not a bike you want to load up to begin with.

COMP RATIO: This is actually a major factor. The WR uses high octane gas. I wouldn't hesitate to put a tank of low grade in it on occasion, but sometimes for long-ish stretches low grade is all you'll find. You can carry octane boost, which is readily available in Central and South America, but I have no experience with finding it in other parts of the world. Something you'll want to research.

FUEL SYSTEM: A fuel injected system, to me, is a plus, simply because you'll get the best possible settings for any altitude automatically. On long trips with frequent altitude changes, it's a huge blessings. Fuel Injection is not as dead-simple reliable as a carburetor of course, but I'd trust one anywhere. Any new (or new to me) bike that I purchase WILL have fuel injection or I won't buy it - I've had enough of trying to sort out carburetor settings.

COOLING SYSTEM: Radiators are more fragile, obviously. The cooling system can be a factor in several areas of the world. A lot of cities in Central and South America have slow moving or stop-and-go traffic, and you'll see a lot of those traffic conditions and hot, slow riding in Africa and South-East Asia. Both 650's will be just fine as long as you're moving. Keep an eye on temperatures in difficult situations (especially stop-and-go traffic in hot weather at high altitude....like Mexico City).


REAR WHEEL: This is a weak point of the DR650. 17" tires are not as readily available. I've never had problem finding a 17" in general - you just might not get the model/type you prefer. You can check ahead at destinations you'll arrive in when you've estimated your tires will need replacing.

GROUND CLEARANCE: In my opinion, not an issue on any of the bikes. The DR650, with the lowest of the three, handled the Trans-America Trail with absolutely no issues.


Every bike has it's issues or compromises. You can either choose a bike based on what "moves you" and deal with those issues, or choose a bike based on what has the least amount of issues for your riding intentions. The DR650, according to both my experiences and research, is the bike that has the LEAST amount of issues (or has issues that are are easily/cheaply fixable). I've also found it to be incredibly reliable, plenty powerful yet cheap to run, fun and easy to ride, inexpensive to purchase and maintain, easy to maintain, light and maneuverable offroad but very smooth and comfortable on road - which to me make it the best choice for a RTW bike.

So, for your needs:

First Place = DR650

Second Place = XR650L

Third Place = WR250R



Good luck, and enjoy every moment. :)




Quote:
Originally Posted by bigalsmith101












StatsPros/Cons






XR650LDR650WR250RXR650LDR650WR250R






Weight346lbs356lbs298lbsXXO
Tank Size2.8gl3.4gl2.0glXXX
Tank Range112-150mi153-187mi100-120miXXXX
After Market Tank5.8gl6.64.5glOOOO
Max Tank Range290330279OOOO
Fuel Economy45-5545-5555-65mpgOOOO
Sub FrameSteel Steel SteelOOO
Comp Ratio8.3:19.5:111.8:1OOOOOO
Fuel SystemCarbCarbFuel InjectedOOX
Cooling SystemAir CooledAir Cooled Water CooledOOX
Rear Wheel 18"17"18"OXO
Front Wheel21"21"21"OOO
Seat Height37.0"34.8"36.6"OXO
Ground Clearance13.0"10.4"11.8"OOOO
2008 Model Cost Avg3,500.00 3,500.00 4,200.00 OOX





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Old 08-01-2010, 01:17 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperBonBon
I'd take a WR250R in a heartbeat, but ONLY if I packed very light (which I now do). My gear, including weight of the soft luggage, is about 40-45 pounds (with no camping gear), and includes tools, spare tubes, and everything I'd ever need. Much more weight and it would cancel the 250's positive's and fun factor - it's light weight, handling, and fuel economy.

FUEL SYSTEM: A fuel injected system, to me, is a plus, simply because you'll get the best possible settings for any altitude automatically. On long trips with frequent altitude changes, it's a huge blessings. Fuel Injection is not as dead-simple reliable as a carburetor of course, but I'd trust one anywhere. Any new (or new to me) bike that I purchase WILL have fuel injection or I won't buy it - I've had enough of trying to sort out carburetor settings.
Abridged. This post is a breath of fresh air. It speaks of someone who challenges the received wisdom that so many others quote without thinking. The advantage of the WR really is in it's packing light, fun handling, hi-tech (but DEPENDABLE!!!!). It's predictable that the DR would come first and that XR would be next and I don't mind that my bike comes 3rd because it's an honest appraisal that doesn't detract from the qualities that make WR's so good at what they do.
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Old 08-01-2010, 02:10 PM   #7
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Properly setup KLR won't be beat for this application. No, I don't own one but used to. I've owned or ridden all of these and more including the KTM and Husky as well. No doubt about what I'd take around the world. KLR.

90 percent of your ride will be paved/dirt road miles where the KLR excels over any of the other bikes. Your offroading won't be technical so the bike just needs to haul a lot and be passable here. The KLR is.
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Old 07-30-2010, 01:39 AM   #8
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*edit*
I see you fixed your map. If i had anything else intelligent to contribute i would...

:)

Looking forward to following this thread.

*edit edit*
Curious, what made you rule out the KLR?

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Old 07-30-2010, 02:07 AM   #9
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I have a WR 250 R and i would NOT count the Liquid cooling or FI as a con.

The problem with the 250, i think is the lack of low end torgue. It is a powerfull and fun bike, but you have to keep it at high rpm to have power. And when you do that, you end up having poor mpg, i average 40/45 mpg... Headwind allso has a big negative effect on fuel consumption with the WRR. I like my bike, but i would not take it for RTW trip. Reliability is not the problem. I have allso crashed/dropped my bike many times, no problems.

What is your budget with the bikes? How about a KTM 690 enduro R? I know it's not the most reliable bike out there, but carry some spares.

I would not choose heavy, poorly suspended, air cooled, antique bike either... RTW trip may be once in a life time thing, i would choose something that is FUN to ride. ( powerfull, light )
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Old 07-30-2010, 04:17 AM   #10
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Those fuel mileage figures are all well and dandy, but once you load up that 250 with the amount of gear you will likelly need to carry, that will go right out the window. I would bet though, that you cant go wrong with any of those models. Though for the price and ease of maintenance, and trust me it pains me to say it, why not a KLR? I know they are butt ugly and all, but they have a huge tank and the reliablility is probably spot on with the rest.

If Charley and Ewan can ride an 1150GS loaded around the world, a loaded KLR should be more than do'able for the rest of us?
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Old 07-30-2010, 06:58 AM   #11
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The bigger/heavier bikes are going to carry a load better and be more relaxed on the highway/state roads.

I'd say DR650!, simply because it is a bt better for road work than the XR, plus it has an oil cooler which will help in the hot humid latin american countries.

Additionally make sure you all get the same bike. This makes carrying spare parts and trouble shooting on the road easier.
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Old 07-30-2010, 07:09 AM   #12
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One other thing I just noticed from your chart. Isn't the subframe on the WR250R aluminum? You have it listed as steel.
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Old 07-30-2010, 02:22 AM   #13
bigalsmith101 OP
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KLR is out

The KLR is 432lbs wet, a full 134lbs heavier then the WR250R, and 77lbs over the XR650, and 87 over the DR650. It too runs a 17" rear wheel, which is more difficult to source while traveling the globe. Also, it is liquid cooled, something I would not prefer. It only has 8.3" of ground clearance, and has less travel in the forks/suspension then the other 3 bikes. The only pro it has over the other bikes is that it is generally cheaper, and comes stock with a 6.1 gallon tank (2008 Model).
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Old 07-30-2010, 02:31 AM   #14
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Budget

The goal for these bikes, is to keep the upfront cost below $4000. Including modifications to the bike including panniers (soft or hard) and every other mod, riding gear, and miscellaneous, the goal is to stay below $7500 a person upon take off.

The less expensive the better, but we will not skimp on the finer points before hand. Our two years prior to the trip start date will serve as a break in period, several small trips will iron out the details, while our trip to Alaska before heading south will serve as our major pre-trip.

We'd prefer the bikes to be less than 4 or 5 years old the day we leave. We hope to purchase these bikes this coming winter when prices drop as they always do.

KYNS: The KTM 690R is a good bike, powerful and light. People ride KTM's around the world as well. But consider that the cheapest 2007 model on Craigslist, anywhere in the entire US is over $5k, and take in to consideration that modifications will be more expensive, dealership access, and spare parts along the way will be hard to find, and you can see why I've knocked the KTM out of the options list.

Our total budget is significant enough to travel the world for 25 months. But we intend to spend the money traveling, and not on repairs. More fuel, less spare parts please.

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Old 07-30-2010, 03:03 AM   #15
lowbudget
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It seems the Suzuki DR-Z 400 could be a fair dealfor you guys?!

Carb
18"
Cheap
big tank available
light
decent power
...
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