ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Bikes > Some Assembly Required
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-13-2011, 05:55 PM   #1
Roadracer_Al OP
louder, louder, louder!
 
Roadracer_Al's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Oakland, CA
Oddometer: 1,513
Introducing the TardMo

I have been following with great interest the following threads. They've been inspirational, to say the least.

LukasM's KaTaMaki project
Resolrider's Ninja 650 motor in a KLR chassis
TonyMorr's A different kind of Versys
JDRocks' Gravel Runner
and Sanjoh's Sanjohsaki, the build

I like building stuff. I'm a pretty fair amateur welder & machinist. So... my crazy idea is to merge a Ninja 650 and a CRF 450. My goal is to swap the complete (linkage and everything) front and rear suspension onto the Ninja. I've eyeballed it, and there is a ton of space behind the swingarm pivot for the shock. I'll have to move some things around and create the top shock mounting, and the lower linkage mounting points.

I expect, also, that because the Ninja motor has a *lot* of depth below the sprocket (i.e. the oil sump), I might need to shorten the stroke of the suspension, but I am confident that I can achieve 10", maybe 11" of wheel travel without risking constant and serious bottoming on the skid plate or crazy swingarm angles.

I found and bought a moderate-mileage 2006 Ninja which had shed all it's bodywork, presumably in someone's hedges - it's cosmetically pretty thrashed - but mechanically sound. The best part is that it has a clean title, not a salvage title, a bonus if this bike ever gets sold.

In what I consider a propitious sign from the forces of nature, a complete 2003 CRF chassis showed up on Craig's List 2 weeks after I bought the Ninja. I secured it promptly.

There will be a pile of goodies that will wind up on eBay and partially fund the project.

I've been riding the little Ninja for a couple weeks now, and I'm kind of surprised at what a good little bike it is. The chassis geometry is very friendly and neutral but the suspension damping components are harsh (typical budget stuff -- damper rod forks & unsophisticated shock). The motor is a peppy, willing partner for hooliganism, which I completely approve of.

So, the name -- I was talking with a friend of mine, and he said "You know you're doing the Motard thing, only backwards... you ought to call it the TardMo." I thought about it and he's right... instead of putting street wheels on dirt bikes, I'm putting dirt wheels (and suspension) on a street bike.

Today's TardMo picture is "as bought". Love the funky Ninja 250 lights & fairing (I think?).

__________________
------------------------------
Suck, Squeeze, Bang, Blow
------------------------------
New Rider Training in the San Francisco Bay Area at Motorcycle University". Learn to Ride...Better!

Roadracer_Al screwed with this post 03-15-2011 at 11:54 AM
Roadracer_Al is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2011, 06:12 PM   #2
OaklandStrom
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Location: East Bay
Oddometer: 1,612
Subscribed.
And you're in Oakland - which means I might even see it in person. Can't wait.
OaklandStrom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2011, 09:05 PM   #3
JimmyTheHog
Low Speed Adventurer
 
JimmyTheHog's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Oddometer: 708
Im in ! Sounds cool.
__________________
Jim

09 R12GSA, 2013 SC3 Adventure
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=657449
http://www.carduccidualsport.com
JimmyTheHog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2011, 09:49 PM   #4
slackmeyer
Don't mean sheeit. .
 
slackmeyer's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: Berzerkeley, CA
Oddometer: 3,014
Quote:
Originally Posted by OaklandStrom View Post
Subscribed.
And you're in Oakland - which means I might even see it in person. Can't wait.
What he said.
__________________
Zak

ktm
old bmw
others
slackmeyer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2011, 12:14 AM   #5
Roadracer_Al OP
louder, louder, louder!
 
Roadracer_Al's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Oakland, CA
Oddometer: 1,513
Sailah - bummer about your bike. Great minds, right?

I owe a pic of the CRF donor chassis.



The update on the PowerCommander is that I'm not savvy, savvy? Turns out that the motor has to be running for the PC to do look alive and for the tuning software to recognize the unit. With that figured out, I've been tinkering with the EFI mapping, and it's more or less a shot in the dark unless you have proper diagnostic gear. You need to be able to read the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) although you can get a general sense of throttle position by using tape on the throttle housing, making a mark on the throttle tube, and marking the high & low extremes, then dividing that up into 10 sub-marks. The real question is what the exhaust O2 is doing. Going by feel ain't so hot, I've found, and I made it worse more than I made it better.

I may break down and buy a wide-band O2 sensor since it's useful on both EFI and carbureted bikes. I'll need it if I ever change the exhaust to put the muffler in the "usual" place (for better ground clearance).

I was shocked to discover that the US ECU runs in open loop mode -- no oxygen sensor in the exhaust! The European version does use one, and I plan to investigate if a US ECU can utilize one.

Sorry for the lack of updates. I've been on vacation on the TardMo as a shake-down run in as-bought form. I put on a total of 1762 miles, with 480 miles on the last day. I discovered some interesting tidbits. It gets only modest mileage cruising at 65-70 -- the best tank got 40 mpg. On I-5, cruising between 85-90, it gets crap mileage, the lowest I got was a horrifying 24 mpg! My V8 Camaro gets 23 on the highway with the AC on! I was definitely range-limited with these mileage figures, and they need some improvement.

I whipped up a luggage rack for soft luggage the day before I left. I can admit & own that I'm proud that I started making it after lunch and finished with enough time to spare to paint it. The main loop is 3/4" tube, all the rest is 1/2" tube. It came out nice enough -- strong, unobtrusive, held the luggage firmly -- although the welds are cosmetically sub-par. MIG is good enough, but makes ugly beads. The rack performed flawlessly. I'll build another rack later for my hard luggage. You can see how the rack sits on the bike in the second pic... the one in front of the bizarre Korean Taco food stand.





Not to turn this into a ride report, but I did a big U-shaped loop through Southern CA into Nevada & back to Yo!Oaktown.



Here, you can see the load of luggage I had. Believe it or not, I could have taken MORE CRAP - the Lee Parks Design Laguna bag wasn't expanded fully, and I bought for my wife the monster of all tankbags. That thing is bigger than my college dorm. Taken on Route 95 North of Las Vegas. I actually ran into a fellow-ADV'er also having a gas stop.



In the Mojave, I went off-pavement to look for old mines. I found this one not far off the highway. I tried to find more, but got a bit cautious about getting stuck in sand. I discovered I could barely push the bike to turn it around because the tires had sunk into the sand over the rims. The short bit of 2-track revealed that -- not surprisingly -- the suspension isn't built for this. Not for long, though.



Obligatory artsy-fartsy pic near the CA/NV line. There's a whole heckofalotta straight roads out that way.

__________________
------------------------------
Suck, Squeeze, Bang, Blow
------------------------------
New Rider Training in the San Francisco Bay Area at Motorcycle University". Learn to Ride...Better!
Roadracer_Al is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2011, 05:07 AM   #6
jdrocks
Gravel Runner
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Oddometer: 4,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadracer_Al View Post
I discovered some interesting tidbits. It gets only modest mileage cruising at 65-70 -- the best tank got 40 mpg. On I-5, cruising between 85-90, it gets crap mileage, the lowest I got was a horrifying 24 mpg!
something not right on the mileage. gravel roads at 50mph should be 50mpg, backroads at 65mph about 45mpg, 80 cruise about 40mpg, although i have dropped to 30-35mpg riding into a big head wind with the bike fully loaded. above 80, the mileage drops off. the motor will pull a 44T rear without difficulty, but you'll need the lower gearing for offroad.

get going on that suspension.
jdrocks is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2011, 10:19 AM   #7
Roadracer_Al OP
louder, louder, louder!
 
Roadracer_Al's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Oakland, CA
Oddometer: 1,513
JD, thanks for sharing your experience.

I'm chalking up most of the difference to dirty aerodynamics -- the fairing was broken off the bike, and there is nothing except the headlight shell. Throw in soft luggage hanging out in the breeze, and my big carcass on top, and I'm sure it makes a brick look sleek.

I do believe that getting the EFI mapped better will result in an improvement as well -- it's a bit soft on the roll-on at highway speed.

Oh, and I forgot to mention 2 mechanical issues - the waterpump seal leaks, and under full-throttle acceleration the clutch slips slightly. I doubt that it's slipping at highway pace, but I could be wrong.
__________________
------------------------------
Suck, Squeeze, Bang, Blow
------------------------------
New Rider Training in the San Francisco Bay Area at Motorcycle University". Learn to Ride...Better!
Roadracer_Al is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2011, 05:51 PM   #8
jdrocks
Gravel Runner
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Oddometer: 4,162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadracer_Al View Post
Love the funky Ninja 250 lights & fairing (I think?).

drank that rat bike kool aid? these are a fun build.

the lights are 650R, not 250.
jdrocks is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2011, 09:08 AM   #9
Kawidad
Beastly Adventurer
 
Kawidad's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Central Coast, Cal
Oddometer: 4,663
I'm in too.
__________________
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? - Juvenal
(Who watches the watchers)
Kawidad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2011, 11:50 AM   #10
Roadracer_Al OP
louder, louder, louder!
 
Roadracer_Al's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Oakland, CA
Oddometer: 1,513
@ JD -- Yep. I had the idea a few years ago, and have really been enjoying the inmates builds - from mild to wild.

@ Tackett -- Cool! A neighbor! Hopefully, you'll see it on the road in less than 5 years. I keep thinking "this isn't that hard". Right.

There are a couple other "rat bike" builds I've seen that I'd like to link in my first post - might as well compile them for posterity. If anyone want sto reply with build threads -- especially if they're not on ADVrider -- I've missed, please feel free.

JD, I think you do yourself a dis-service calling your builds "rat bikes" - you do quality work. Just because you utilize some very creative parts bin engineering doesn't mean it's ratty. Mongrel, maybe, but not rat.

I figure this build is an intermediate step for me - ultimately I want to build my own chassis with a long-travel floating headstock/Hossack front end. I'm a participant on the MC_Chassis design list, and one of the truly charismatic posters, a fellow named Hoyt (sadly, now deceased), built one in the '80s using a Honda XR 350 motor. How cool would it be to make a modern version!?



__________________
------------------------------
Suck, Squeeze, Bang, Blow
------------------------------
New Rider Training in the San Francisco Bay Area at Motorcycle University". Learn to Ride...Better!

Roadracer_Al screwed with this post 03-15-2011 at 12:08 PM
Roadracer_Al is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 10:04 AM   #11
LukasM
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: On a RTW ride - currently Central Asia
Oddometer: 5,380
That bike looks almost too nice to cut up! But that could a good thing since it will give you lots of parts to sell.

I'm in!
__________________
Currently going RTW on a KTM 690 Rally, trip blog: https://www.facebook.com/AroundTheWorldWithLukasM

Tracker: https://share.delorme.com/LukasMatzinger
LukasM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 07:28 PM   #12
mtothef
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: santa cruz, ca...
Oddometer: 396
yeehaw!

get after it, al. if you need any advice on how to completely misplace the link points, or want help getting the math completely wrong on spring rates, you know where to find me.

been waiting for someone else to pull the trigger and go fully overboard with a 650r conversion. no disrespect to the many modded jobs so far, but none of them have fallen off the bad side of the welding table yet (except repsolrider, who stomped all over the welding table, and who makes everyone else look like a hack anyway). bring on the long travel, completely out of place, this-makes-no-sense-at-all mutation!

"these go to eleven..."
mtothef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2011, 01:26 AM   #13
jake28
Riding to the horizon.
 
jake28's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: Bay Area, CA
Oddometer: 391
This should continue. Namely because you are local and I may need help with mine.
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=736744
__________________
2004 YZ250F Dirt/Motard 1982 XLFTCR500 Street Tracker 1997 XR600R POS

jake28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2011, 11:18 PM   #14
Z3n
Adventurer
 
Joined: Sep 2006
Oddometer: 38
Looking forward to seeing this shape up! I'll be local to you soon too, this thread is like a who's who of ADV/BARF crossover.
Z3n is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 09:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014