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Old 02-17-2012, 05:00 AM   #1
Bugtussle OP
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2 Stroke Folks?

Im thinking about a Stella 2 stroke for my next scooter. I thought this would be a good place to ask the question about ethanol fuel use in a 2 stroke. The boat and chainsaw guys around here run clear premium(no ethanol)in there motors. I do have one local station that carries it but its expensive and hard to find once I leave town. What are you 2 stroke guys running for fuel and oil mix in these days of corn squeezin's fuel everywhere?
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Old 02-17-2012, 05:44 AM   #2
cnw126
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I have a 2001 Yamaha Zuma, 50cc two-stroke. Stock.

I am running the standard 87 octane E10 fuel that we have in Delaware. I use Yamalube injector oil.

I have not had any problems.
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Old 02-17-2012, 06:24 AM   #3
hugemoth
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I've had no problems using 10% ethanol regular gas in my 2 stroke engines, including my Rotax aircraft engine. Listen for pinging during high speed runs and use a higher octane fuel if necessary. My favorite 2 stroke oil is Pennzoil non synthetic because of low carbon build up and good corrosion protection of the bearings.
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Old 02-17-2012, 06:38 AM   #4
lifer
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I have used ethanol fuel in my zuma and my KDX220 but I try to use fuel without ethanol as much as possible. The bikes run ok on the ethanol stuff but Where I live my bikes sit for long stretches of time without being used, partly because I have 4 bikes but also because of winter. The ethanol damages seals and metal 24-7-365 so I prefer to not have it in the bikes if possible. That said I do not get bent out of shape if I have to fill a tank or 2 of the ethanol stuff.
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Old 02-17-2012, 08:13 AM   #5
seraph
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I've had my Stella for 3 years and who knows how many miles, and it's never had an ethanol-related problem. All of the gas in my area is E10, including premium.

I know a ton of 2-stroke scooterists, many (myself included) using them as daily drivers, and many running vintage bikes, and it never comes up. I'd use ethanol-free if I could find it, but it's potential issues are overhyped IMO.

I've heard some chat about this StarTron stuff for treating E10 fuels, though. I'd probably buy some if my scooter sat for long.

Stellas are a blast, by the way. Finicky bitches - you will very likely have to do minor electrical & carb work - but tons of fun nonetheless.
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:04 PM   #6
thunderkat59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seraph View Post
I've had my Stella for 3 years and who knows how many miles, and it's never had an ethanol-related problem. All of the gas in my area is E10, including premium.

I know a ton of 2-stroke scooterists, many (myself included) using them as daily drivers, and many running vintage bikes, and it never comes up. I'd use ethanol-free if I could find it, but it's potential issues are overhyped IMO.

I've heard some chat about this StarTron stuff for treating E10 fuels, though. I'd probably buy some if my scooter sat for long.

Stellas are a blast, by the way. Finicky bitches - you will very likely have to do minor electrical & carb work - but tons of fun nonetheless.
I put anything on my Stella. Cant remember if any was ethanol based, though.
My Stella was one of only two bikes I really, really miss. If I could get another, I would.
On club runs, when I knew it was going to be WFO all day long, I'd put a few capfuls of
oil in the gas in addition to the auto-lube mix.

OFF-TOPIC TO O.P.------ What do you think of your Symbas ?
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Old 02-17-2012, 02:40 PM   #7
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I rode ring ding road bikes for many years. In those days people were saying that you had to run leaded premium and it was mostly bunk unless for racing. I used the cheapest unleaded petro swill and never had a problem. I would use premium only if there is pinging or the bike only sees occasional use. E-gas will go bad quicker than the premium fuels that have none.

I used Checron 2 stroke oil instead of the pricey injector oil . In those days synthetic was new and priced like gold. The Chevron was actually marine oil but rated up to 100 to 1. These days I would use the synthetic to appease the smog gods.
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Old 02-17-2012, 07:53 PM   #8
seraph
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkat59 View Post
I put anything on my Stella. Cant remember if any was ethanol based, though.
My Stella was one of only two bikes I really, really miss. If I could get another, I would.
On club runs, when I knew it was going to be WFO all day long, I'd put a few capfuls of
oil in the gas in addition to the auto-lube mix.

OFF-TOPIC TO O.P.------ What do you think of your Symbas ?
Scooter club runs? Most of the ones I've been on have been lead by clubs with Stella- or vintage-riding members, so they're always tuned to the right speed.

A stock Stella is not a high-strung engine,and honestly can probably get around fine with shitty gas and cheap 2-stroke oil. I run decent-to-nice 2-stroke (cheap for scooter/motorcycle stuff, but leagues ahead of chainsaw oil) oil because it's cheap piece of mind. Motul Scooter Expert, currently, though I prefer the Motul 510/710 (less smoke, I think).

I know you don't have it any more, but other owners - be wary of putting additional oil in the tank. It displaces fuel, so it can cause a lean condition. The oil injection system is actually pretty trick and meters out oil based partially on rev AND throttle, so it does a pretty good job of maintaining the right mix. Assuming it is all working right!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phipsd View Post
I rode ring ding road bikes for many years. In those days people were saying that you had to run leaded premium and it was mostly bunk unless for racing. I used the cheapest unleaded petro swill and never had a problem. I would use premium only if there is pinging or the bike only sees occasional use. E-gas will go bad quicker than the premium fuels that have none.

I used Checron 2 stroke oil instead of the pricey injector oil . In those days synthetic was new and priced like gold. The Chevron was actually marine oil but rated up to 100 to 1. These days I would use the synthetic to appease the smog gods.
'Round these parts (WA state), I think most mid-grade and premium gas is 10% ethanol as well. Can't avoid it!
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Old 02-18-2012, 02:28 AM   #9
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put whatever you want in it mate they are super simple engines they wont care tbh
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Old 02-18-2012, 07:32 AM   #10
starreem
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There's a bit of speculation, in the vintage world, the ethanol tends to eat away at seals, and other non metal parts. Some are blaming stuck floats and needles on swelling rubber and nylon bits. If you are really concerned look here: http://pure-gas.org/ for non-ethanol gas in your area.
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:20 AM   #11
vortexau
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Ethanol in two-stroke outboards

Quote:
Ethanol offers other advantages like being 100% made in the USA, being an oxidizing fuel, and reducing combustion chamber temperatures. The latter is why race engines burn alcohol, even though they use (toxic) methanol.

Lubrication
But how do we get two-stroke oil to dissolve in ethanol? It won’t. At least cheap petroleum oil won’t do it. But expensive synthetic oil will.

So let’s talk about what synthetic 2-stroke oil is. Don’t be confused by labeling. Some of the stuff they call “synthetic” is really just highly modified petroleum oil. This is not the same thing. We are talking about fully synthetic ester-based oil.
“Ester” should be a clue to those who know a little chemistry. These “fully synthetic” oils are esters of vegetable oils. In a word, biodiesel!
Quote:
I should note that AMSOIL only officially recommends this oil for use in gasoline of no more than 10% ethanol. Apparently this is because it can separate into layers if left sitting still for a long time. The solution is simple – shake the tank before use.
There you have it! If you see a rider really shaking up his Two-stroke Scooter before a ride -- here's the reason.

alternately, one could isolate the fuel tank on rubber mounts, and make up a 12v vibration (fuel mixer) system from their ex-girlfriend's old battery model left in the nightstand.



Then you could fit the activation switch onto the dash.

Quote:
But you should consider rebuilding that old engine’s fuel system if you haven’t already. Natural rubber gaskets from the old days can’t tolerate alcohols, but modern synthetic rubber can. Besides, it’s cheap and we’re only talking about 3 hours or so. Max’s articles or his book (Cheap Outboards) can guide you there.
One final thing to consider is your fuel tank. Steel tanks tend to rust faster with ethanol. I’d get a cheap plastic tank, which will last about forever with any fuel if you keep it out of sunlight. If you have a pressure tank engine, this might be a good time to convert it to a fuel pump.

You might also replace the rubber oil line on the side of the crankcase. If it’s original – and it probably is – it won’t handle ethanol for long.
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vortexau screwed with this post 02-24-2012 at 02:40 AM Reason: inserting apostrophy
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Old 02-24-2012, 07:30 AM   #12
HowHH
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The Genuine Stella is a modern scooter and it's rubber bits shouldn't be adversely affected by the ethanol in gas. I haven't heard of or seen any issues in club rides.

But for hearing it from the horse's mouth, you should check out

http://www.scootercentral.net/forums/ and

http://www.modernbuddy.com/forum/forum14.html.

Those forums both have a pretty active Stella community. I haven't had the opportunity to ride a Stella, but they do look nice. If I had one, I would have to try out the scented Ipone oil (http://www.scooterworks.com/2-Stroke...P2432C429.aspx) just for fun.
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Old 02-25-2012, 02:54 AM   #13
hugemoth
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IMO the best thing for storing any engine for the season is 100LL avgas from your local airport. It has lead so you can't use it in anything with a catalytic converter but it'll set for a year or more and not cause any problems by evaporating from the carb. It also won't loose octane like car gas does when it sets.
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Old 02-25-2012, 05:42 AM   #14
B02S4
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I've had no problems with Shell 89 (mid-grade) + Seafoam in my PGO (Genuine) Rattler 107...
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Old 02-24-2012, 08:42 AM   #15
starreem
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Actually LML Stellas are notorious for cheap/bad short-lived rubber bits. Not sure if that follows through to the internal seals and such.
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