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Old 09-27-2012, 12:50 PM   #1
eatpasta OP
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Honda starting to flex it's muscles again?

We all know what Honda is capable of when it decides to flex it's muscles.

CB400F - first mass produced four cylinder to rev over 10,000 - first motorcycle with a sixth gear (I think)

CB750 - engine smoothness, first disc brake!

in the 90's, their cars were so many light years ahead, I can remember sitting in a Taurus that was newer than our family Accord and thinking - man this car is pathetic. Not to mention the 300k trouble free miles we put on that car.

NSR750 - super exotic, hand machined oval pistons!

RC30 - RC45 - need no introduction, whatsoever.

The S2000 - (at the time) highest red line of any production car, highest piston speed, most HP per liter of any normally aspirated car

over the years it's been some of the most exciting stuff we mortals can buy.... but for the last 10 years or so they seem to have been hiding somewhere. Yeah, the make pretty good dirtbikes, good touring bikes and very good sportbikes we really haven't seen Honda take any chances or do anything particularly exiting.

It looks like that's changing.

As many of you know they are making a road going RC213V - which to say the least is going to be incredible.

Also, they are building a prototype bike this year to compete at Dakar for the first time in 25 years.

it's nice to see Honda taking some chances and flexing again.....they have made and still make some really cool shit.

Is there a proper ADV bike in our futures? Why not?

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Old 09-27-2012, 01:50 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by eatpasta View Post

The S2000 - (at the time) highest red line of any production car, highest piston speed, most HP per liter of any normally aspirated car

Except the S5 FC RX-7. 220hp/2.0l = 110, 160hp/1.3l = 123

;)
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:12 PM   #3
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Except the S5 FC RX-7. 220hp/2.0l = 110, 160hp/1.3l = 123

;)
and its a POS
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Old 09-29-2012, 12:30 AM   #4
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Thanks for the video eatpasta, that was great!

I guess we'll all see how things go in the next 5-10 years...

It makes me wonder... what would have happened, and what bikes would be available from Honda USA today, if the before-their-time sales-fails bikes from the late '80s to the mid '90s would've succeeded? For those that don't know or have forgotten, I'm talking about bikes like the CB-1 400, the GB500 Tourist Trophy, the NT650 Hawk, the XL600V Transalp, the PC800 Pacific Coast, the NX125/250/650, the '94-'95 CB1000 etc. etc.

These bikes all had something going for them, something unique that separated them from the pack and made them exciting for different reasons, but yet, not many bought them...

Maybe, like the proverbial elephant (and no, I don't mean a Cagiva Elefant), Honda never forgets?
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Old 09-29-2012, 02:22 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by TwinDuro View Post
Thanks for the video eatpasta, that was great!

I guess we'll all see how things go in the next 5-10 years...

It makes me wonder... what would have happened, and what bikes would be available from Honda USA today, if the before-their-time sales-fails bikes from the late '80s to the mid '90s would've succeeded? For those that don't know or have forgotten, I'm talking about bikes like the CB-1 400, the GB500 Tourist Trophy, the NT650 Hawk, the XL600V Transalp, the PC800 Pacific Coast, the NX125/250/650, the '94-'95 CB1000 etc. etc.

These bikes all had something going for them, something unique that separated them from the pack and made them exciting for different reasons, but yet, not many bought them...

Maybe, like the proverbial elephant (and no, I don't mean a Cagiva Elefant), Honda never forgets?
There arent many companies with the engineering, manufacturing and raw capitol to be able to reinvent itself when it begins to wander far of the mark. Maybe we'll see something special, maybe the CB1300 will come finally. Maybe they'll give us a CB600, or a proper adventure bike.

They -are- going after the dakar this year, I think the arrival of the RC213V suggests the seriousness with which they're going after the bike market again.

Yaknow what I really want? a midweight(6-800cc) adventure bike for around 10k. Maybe positioned to compete with the KTM 690, more likely aimed at the F800, Tiger 800 ect. I have always been fascinated with Honda, the old man was an incredible guy and he gave us some incredible stuff. I'd own one now, if they made anything I was interested in.

Why are BMW's so much better thought out than Hondas, market wise? I mean we've seen some motorrad bikes that didnt take off, but Honda just does absurd things. The 599 and 919 seemed to sell well, but were just so expensive. The PC800 was way smarter than the DN-01, but it needed to have hung around longer to gain momentum. They give us the DN-01 but not the CB1300? Where is the new blackbird, or a proper naked bike that doesn't get shipped from Italy?

Come on Honda, if anyone can do this you can.
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Old 09-29-2012, 10:40 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by KaceCoyote View Post
There arent many companies with the engineering, manufacturing and raw capitol to be able to reinvent itself when it begins to wander far of the mark. Maybe we'll see something special, maybe the CB1300 will come finally. Maybe they'll give us a CB600, or a proper adventure bike.

They -are- going after the dakar this year, I think the arrival of the RC213V suggests the seriousness with which they're going after the bike market again.

Yaknow what I really want? a midweight(6-800cc) adventure bike for around 10k. Maybe positioned to compete with the KTM 690, more likely aimed at the F800, Tiger 800 ect. I have always been fascinated with Honda, the old man was an incredible guy and he gave us some incredible stuff. I'd own one now, if they made anything I was interested in.

Why are BMW's so much better thought out than Hondas, market wise? I mean we've seen some motorrad bikes that didnt take off, but Honda just does absurd things. The 599 and 919 seemed to sell well, but were just so expensive. The PC800 was way smarter than the DN-01, but it needed to have hung around longer to gain momentum. They give us the DN-01 but not the CB1300? Where is the new blackbird, or a proper naked bike that doesn't get shipped from Italy?

Come on Honda, if anyone can do this you can.


+1 +1 +1

Every moto event I attend, I say these things to Honda NA, my local Honda shops and anyone else who I can corner. We never saw the Varadero line in the USA and so far we've been skipped by the CrossTourer and CrossRunner lines. Whenever I leave the USA, I pick up local Honda product brochures. It is painful to see what we miss.

First bike after college: 1976 Honda CB760F
Last 3 Hondas: 2001,2002,2003 Honda XR650R's

And that's all until Honda brings something good and interesting here!
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Old 09-29-2012, 10:51 AM   #7
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I agree 100% Kace, if anyone can do it, Honda can....

I (as well as thousands of others no doubt) would also like to see a mid-weight (6-800cc), more off-road biased adventure bike from Honda for around $8-10k.


I've been extremely fortunate to have had the chance to ride a friend's 1997 Honda RD07 Africa Twin for a short time... Even though that particular bike is 15 years old now, the overall way it worked was awesome! The engine, while not rip-roaring extreme, had plenty of power and torque and was fun to use, the chassis felt planted and the handling was neutral and forgiving, belaying the size of the bike. Overall, it was just flat out perfect IMHO.


It's both an awesome and horrible to ride a bike like that, as it's forbidden fruit and owning one here is near impossible.


I really liked the idea of the last Honda Transalp 700 as well. Although it was a little more street-biased, it still looks like a fun bike:




Even though Honda has a ways to go yet, I'm happy to see the direction they're going in.
Just like you said, I'd love to see the CB1300 come over here. I would have loved to see the Honda CB750 concept they teased us with a few years back to come to life as well....


Quote:
Originally Posted by KaceCoyote View Post
There arent many companies with the engineering, manufacturing and raw capitol to be able to reinvent itself when it begins to wander far of the mark. Maybe we'll see something special, maybe the CB1300 will come finally. Maybe they'll give us a CB600, or a proper adventure bike.

They -are- going after the dakar this year, I think the arrival of the RC213V suggests the seriousness with which they're going after the bike market again.

Yaknow what I really want? a midweight(6-800cc) adventure bike for around 10k. Maybe positioned to compete with the KTM 690, more likely aimed at the F800, Tiger 800 ect. I have always been fascinated with Honda, the old man was an incredible guy and he gave us some incredible stuff. I'd own one now, if they made anything I was interested in.

Why are BMW's so much better thought out than Hondas, market wise? I mean we've seen some motorrad bikes that didnt take off, but Honda just does absurd things. The 599 and 919 seemed to sell well, but were just so expensive. The PC800 was way smarter than the DN-01, but it needed to have hung around longer to gain momentum. They give us the DN-01 but not the CB1300? Where is the new blackbird, or a proper naked bike that doesn't get shipped from Italy?

Come on Honda, if anyone can do this you can.
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Old 09-29-2012, 11:44 AM   #8
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I've been riding Hondas for the last 30 some years, ever since my first ride on a '79 CBX. I now ride a BMW. Why? Because Honda keeps trotting out these "marvels" that are totally irrelevant. I don't need or want a road going GP bike, or a chopper, or an automatic transmission.

Honda can have me back tomorrow...just sell me a CB1300. Please, just sell us the bikes we've been asking for, no need to reinvent the wheel. Build us a standard with modern fuel injection, suspension, and brakes. My 919 was a step in the right direction, now build us a bike with no apologies, no motors detuned for torque.

Oh, while we're at it. Where's our modernized street legal XR650R? To get that I had to buy a KTM.

As nice as the Beemer and KTM are they've got their quirks and are just not Hondas.
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Old 09-29-2012, 10:08 PM   #9
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Honda can have me back tomorrow...just sell me a CB1300. Please, just sell us the bikes we've been asking for,
Suzuki tried with the B1250, they didn't sell.

Considering how well the CB1000 sold, can't say that I blame them for not bringing the 13 over.

In order for the Japanese to bring these bikes over, we have to buy them THE YEAR THEY COME OUT.

The sales numbers for these bikes say that most of the people that want these bikes are cheap cunt douchenozzles that don't put their money where their mouth is. Instead, they wait until the bikes have been sitting on dealer floors for 2 years before they make their purchase. Not a good formula for making money.

The numbers just aren't there for a large company to bother with niche motorcycles. Yamaha does it a little bit but unless Big Red wants to adopt the same kind of distribution model that Yam has with the Super Ten it simply isn't going to happen.
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Old 09-29-2012, 10:45 PM   #10
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Suzuki tried with the B1250, they didn't sell.

Considering how well the CB1000 sold, can't say that I blame them for not bringing the 13 over.

In order for the Japanese to bring these bikes over, we have to buy them THE YEAR THEY COME OUT.

The sales numbers for these bikes say that most of the people that want these bikes are cheap cunt douchenozzles that don't put their money where their mouth is. Instead, they wait until the bikes have been sitting on dealer floors for 2 years before they make their purchase. Not a good formula for making money.

The numbers just aren't there for a large company to bother with niche motorcycles. Yamaha does it a little bit but unless Big Red wants to adopt the same kind of distribution model that Yam has with the Super Ten it simply isn't going to happen.
I was thinking about this earlier today. Honda builds cars and things here, why dont they build bikes? Presumably that'd keep costs down, steal Harley's thunder to a degree and maybe with roots here their moto engineers would actually ride our roads and talk to our riders. I fear they just look through flip books with beautifully colored glossy charts and diagrams of demographics and lack any realistic understanding of the modern american motorcycle consumer.

It seems like every year they lose more ground, and they lose more hondas. Where is the modern "You meet the nicest people on a honda."
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Old 09-30-2012, 08:14 AM   #11
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[QUOTE=AZbiker;19710558]Suzuki tried with the B1250, they didn't sell.

Considering how well the CB1000 sold, can't say that I blame them for not bringing the 13 over.

QUOTE]

Didn't want a Suzuki, or a Kawasaki, or a Yamaha. I really liked my 919 except for a couple of things. 1 it needed more poop and 2 while I liked having a lighter bike than my ST1100 it was physically too small. I recon the 1300 would be perfect. As a taller guy the reason I like the GS is that it fits me.

As far as being cheap, if they provide the product I want I'll pony up. There are 4 motorcyles and 2 quads in the garage right now. If they bring over the 1300 or build a modern CBX I'll put the Beemer on Ebay today.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:56 PM   #12
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and its a POS
No way! I owned 2, an S4 GXL and an S5 TII. Both were fun as shit when they ran!
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Old 09-27-2012, 01:59 PM   #13
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If the RX-7 is a Mazda ,it has a Wankel engine not a piston engine ,so it can spin up to insane rpm with out self destruction.
So in all fairness the Honda has the most HP for a piston engine.
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:47 PM   #14
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If the RX-7 is a Mazda ,it has a Wankel engine not a piston engine ,so it can spin up to insane rpm with out self destruction.
So in all fairness the Honda has the most HP for a piston engine.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:42 AM   #15
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If the RX-7 is a Mazda ,it has a Wankel engine not a piston engine ,so it can spin up to insane rpm with out self destruction.
So in all fairness the Honda has the most HP for a piston engine.
Although the crankshaft speed is 3 times higher than the rotor speed, so 10K RPM is only 3333.3 rotor speed.

Rod
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