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Old 11-01-2012, 08:16 AM   #1
Stegerman OP
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Motorcycle powered by air..interesting

http://www.fastcoexist.com/1680821/a...urce=twitter#1

Propelled by compressed air, the O2 Pursuit can go 100 kilometers on a single tank, and up to 140 kilometers per hour (87 mph), according to Dean Benstead, the graduate of RMIT University, in Melbourne, who designed it.
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:20 AM   #2
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Interesting. Any info available on weight and power delivery?

edit: "Less than 100kg", and "Constant high torque"

wonder how high?
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Old 11-01-2012, 08:48 AM   #3
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Hmmm. Sounds like it was designed to run on hot air... Plenty of hot air.

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Old 11-01-2012, 08:58 AM   #4
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Air powered bike

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Hmmm. Sounds like it was designed to run on hot air... Plenty of hot air.

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Old 11-01-2012, 09:08 AM   #5
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I like it. On days I work at the bike shop one tank would get me there and back.

What's max psi of the average Scuba tank?
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:26 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by B.Curvin View Post
I like it. On days I work at the bike shop one tank would get me there and back.

What's max psi of the average Scuba tank?
I believe most tanks come in the 3000 or 4500 psi variety.
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:35 AM   #7
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I believe most tanks come in the 3000 or 4500 psi variety.
I think I'll start building superchargers for gas station compressors. The safety factor of the storage tanks should cover the pressure, right?

Oops, then they'd need bigger motors. OK, no problem, big stuff is readily available. Um, wiring. No need to run bigger wire, they can just raise the voltage for the bigger motors. Let's see, standard is probably 240V 3 phase, and 4160v should be on the poles. That should be able to handle motors up to 1,000 HP or more. Hope their wire insulation if nice and thick.

No need for 13.8kv unless it's a real big station.
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:14 AM   #8
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Note that, like an electric or a hydrogen fuel cell, the compressed air tank is not fuel, but only a storage of energy. The bike will actually be powered by coal, or nuclear, or hydroelectric, or whatever the local electricity is generated by.

It does look like an interesting idea, but I'm not sure about the safety aspect. You've got to handle compressed air tanks with due care; if you bust off the nozzle in a fall, it becomes a missile. Seems a sketchy idea on a dirtbike.

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Interesting. Any info available on weight and power delivery?

edit: "Less than 100kg", and "Constant high torque"

wonder how high?
That's probably going to depend a lot on how much pressure is in the tank. Like an electric, it'll have max torque right from zero, and be pretty exciting that way. But much like your old CO2 pellet gun, it'll get weaker each pass and fizzle out.

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Old 11-01-2012, 12:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
That's probably going to depend a lot on how much pressure is in the tank. Like an electric, it'll have max torque right from zero, and be pretty exciting that way. But much like your old CO2 pellet gun, it'll get weaker each pass and fizzle out.
Not necessarily. If it is set up to feed air to the motor via a two-stage system, then there would be a first stage valve that reduces the pressure from the tank to the feeder line to a maximum value, then a second stage valve that reduces the pressure again to the feed into the engine.

Assuming for the sake of argument that the engine runs with a 10:1 compression ratio, then at sea level, the second stage regulator valve would need to deliver about 140 PSI to the engine. Until the tank pressure dropped to below 140 PSI, the feed would be at a constant pressure, due to the regulator valves stepping down the pressure, much like an electrical transformer.

Edit: now that I think about it, because this engine is not using IC to generate pressure, the sea level thing does not apply. You would merely need to regulate the air pressure down to whatever the engine is designed to handle.
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:20 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Yossarian™ View Post
Not necessarily. If it is set up to feed air to the motor via a two-stage system, then there would be a first stage valve that reduces the pressure from the tank to the feeder line to a maximum value, then a second stage valve that reduces the pressure again to the feed into the engine.

Assuming for the sake of argument that the engine runs with a 10:1 compression ratio, then at sea level, the second stage regulator valve would need to deliver about 140 PSI to the engine. Until the tank pressure dropped to below 140 PSI, the feed would be at a constant pressure, due to the regulator valves stepping down the pressure, much like an electrical transformer.

Edit: now that I think about it, because this engine is not using IC to generate pressure, the sea level thing does not apply. You would merely need to regulate the air pressure down to whatever the engine is designed to handle.
It'll be a LOT more than 140psi. An engine, remember, burns fuel. You squeeze the air/fuel mixture to 140psi or so, THEN you set fire to it, and THAT gives you the pressure rise that powers the vehicle. That gives you a pressure in the power stroke of 1000 to 1500 psi. SO yes, if you regulate it to that, you'll get constant power until the cylinder gets to that level -- the last third to quarter of the tank will give you lower performance.

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Old 11-02-2012, 05:39 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by PhilB View Post
It'll be a LOT more than 140psi. An engine, remember, burns fuel. You squeeze the air/fuel mixture to 140psi or so, THEN you set fire to it, and THAT gives you the pressure rise that powers the vehicle. That gives you a pressure in the power stroke of 1000 to 1500 psi. SO yes, if you regulate it to that, you'll get constant power until the cylinder gets to that level -- the last third to quarter of the tank will give you lower performance.

PhilB
Good point, Phil.

However, let's also consider that just adapting a regular otto cycle engine for this would be very inefficient. It would be better to use a specially-designed engine, much like a steam locomotive uses multiple valves and pistons to capture the energy of the steam as it gets reduced with each piston stroke. Some of those engines are much more efficient at extracting the energy in the available pressure differential than a conventional otto cycle engine.

Edit: I just read the post above about the Di Pietro motor. Sounds nice.
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Old 11-01-2012, 01:01 PM   #12
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You've got to handle compressed air tanks with due care; if you bust off the nozzle in a fall, it becomes a missile. Seems a sketchy idea on a dirtbike.
That's when the pressure exiting the new hole (from the missing valve) only has to push the 10 or so pounds that the tank weighs.

Attach that tank securely to a 200 pound plus dirt bike and I don't think the pressure exiting the hole in the tank is going to be shooting the crashed dirt bike around like a missile...

Could be wrong, just guessing. 200 pound dirt bike is 20 times the weight of the cylinder that the exiting pressure has to try and muscle around!
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Old 11-01-2012, 01:29 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Ben Carufel View Post
That's when the pressure exiting the new hole (from the missing valve) only has to push the 10 or so pounds that the tank weighs.

Attach that tank securely to a 200 pound plus dirt bike and I don't think the pressure exiting the hole in the tank is going to be shooting the crashed dirt bike around like a missile...

Could be wrong, just guessing. 200 pound dirt bike is 20 times the weight of the cylinder that the exiting pressure has to try and muscle around!
Depends on how securely the tank is mounted. It would be kinda cool if they were removable so you could swap them out.
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Old 11-01-2012, 01:56 PM   #14
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I'm always skeptical about things like this. These guys should know exactly how much torque and power this thing produces, but they won't say the numbers. Why?

It just makes me think the whole thing is a fraud.
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Old 11-01-2012, 04:18 PM   #15
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Depends on how securely the tank is mounted. It would be kinda cool if they were removable so you could swap them out.
Yeah, I was thinking if the bottom (blunt) end of the tank was pushed against a plate welded to the backbone of the bike, that'd probably (maybe?) be enough to absorb the stress of a tank pissing away thousands of PSI in a few tenths of a second.

So, the tanks could be easily swapped, and the "cradle" for the tank would hold it such that if shit hit the fan, the tank wouldn't go loose from the bike.
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