ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-19-2012, 05:06 PM   #1
outdoornate65 OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: Front Range, CO
Oddometer: 66
Dealing with dealers.....

So I've been shopping around the local dealerships for my next bike (have only bought one new bike in the past) and I'm getting pretty frustrated with the dealer BS.

How is it that there are such varied numbers when it comes to dealer "costs"?

For example:

One local dealer quoted me a decent price for a 2012 bike I'm considering and said their dealer costs were $109.

I went to another dealer, still here in Denver, and he wouldn't quote me a price and wanted over $600 in "dealer costs"!! WTF??

So for those of you that have been around the block a few times, what should I "reasonably" expect to pay in fees and what sort of mark-downs from MSRP should I be looking for on left-over 2012 models? Talking about a $6000 bike....not some $17,000 KTM.

Thanks,

Nate
outdoornate65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 05:17 PM   #2
daveoneshot
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: Vermont
Oddometer: 380
Try this : Walk into the place that has your favorite bike with your cash....in hundred dollar bills. " This is what I am going to give you for that bike over there, do you want it or not ?? " Might make an impression.
daveoneshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 05:45 PM   #3
spafxer
Beastly Adventurer
 
spafxer's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Oddometer: 2,593
They're just trying to prevent comparison shopping.. Destination fees are a good one too..

Dealer costs... I'd ask if a $100 keeps the doors open, that's pretty cheap


If it's a cash deal, the bottom line is all that counts. When you go with the dealer's financing and other options, it's harder to compare. But the numbers on the financing papers tell all.. READ IT

I never give any down payment cash or check until I see the papers either. Once given, it's a bitch to get it back.



My dealer which I had bought 2 bikes before, I said I wanted the new bike set up a certain way... When he pointed to the parts counter like I was supposed to do it, I promptly walked out the door and bought used. Set up the way I wanted.
spafxer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 08:25 PM   #4
TrashCan
Scary Jerry
 
TrashCan's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Louisville, Tn
Oddometer: 4,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by spafxer View Post


My dealer which I had bought 2 bikes before, I said I wanted the new bike set up a certain way... When he pointed to the parts counter like I was supposed to do it, I promptly walked out the door and bought used. Set up the way I wanted.





Did you not want to pay for extra parts that you wanted???

How did the dealer do you wrong?
__________________
X the DY.

TrashCan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2012, 07:25 AM   #5
spafxer
Beastly Adventurer
 
spafxer's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Oddometer: 2,593
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrashCan View Post


Did you not want to pay for extra parts that you wanted???

How did the dealer do you wrong?
Not at all..

Cost of the bike + large tank + hand gaurds + a few other things = $$$ I write one check or how much in cash..

I thought a "shop" worked together to get the sale.. Even though they are different departments, they scratch each other's backs.
spafxer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2012, 10:36 AM   #6
TrashCan
Scary Jerry
 
TrashCan's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Louisville, Tn
Oddometer: 4,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by spafxer View Post
Not at all..

Cost of the bike + large tank + hand gaurds + a few other things = $$$ I write one check or how much in cash..

I thought a "shop" worked together to get the sale.. Even though they are different departments, they scratch each other's backs.



Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Aftermarket is always a profit center.

__________________
X the DY.

TrashCan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 06:21 AM   #7
Grreatdog
Beastly Adventurer
 
Grreatdog's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Annapolis, MD
Oddometer: 10,518
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveoneshot View Post
Try this : Walk into the place that has your favorite bike with your cash....in hundred dollar bills. " This is what I am going to give you for that bike over there, do you want it or not ?? " Might make an impression.
This. I haven't bought anything but used bikes for years. But when I was buying new dual sports I would walk into the dealer with $100 bills and tell them how many of those bills I was willing to part with. They didn't always take the first offer. But they never let me back out the door without a bike either.

The reason why was that I knew what I was willing to pay and carried that much in cash through the door. It is kind of fun to watch them sweat when you are showing them a nice stack of bills. But, more importantly, it is amazing how fast the bullshit turns to a straightforward negotiation when you are holding a fistful of cash.

Money talks.
__________________
525EXC, 640 Enduro, XT200
Grreatdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 06:43 AM   #8
TrashCan
Scary Jerry
 
TrashCan's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Louisville, Tn
Oddometer: 4,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grreatdog View Post
This. I haven't bought anything but used bikes for years. But when I was buying new dual sports I would walk into the dealer with $100 bills and tell them how many of those bills I was willing to part with. They didn't always take the first offer. But they never let me back out the door without a bike either.

The reason why was that I knew what I was willing to pay and carried that much in cash through the door. It is kind of fun to watch them sweat when you are showing them a nice stack of bills. But, more importantly, it is amazing how fast the bullshit turns to a straightforward negotiation when you are holding a fistful of cash.

Money talks.



It is not the dealers job to make you happy, (some folks are just a sour puss) it is your job to make yourself happy, by paying what you want.
__________________
X the DY.


TrashCan screwed with this post 11-23-2012 at 06:44 AM Reason: spell check
TrashCan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 07:50 AM   #9
DAKEZ
Beastly Adventurer
 
DAKEZ's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: OR
Oddometer: 19,696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grreatdog View Post
This. I haven't bought anything but used bikes for years. But when I was buying new dual sports I would walk into the dealer with $100 bills and tell them how many of those bills I was willing to part with. They didn't always take the first offer. But they never let me back out the door without a bike either.

The reason why was that I knew what I was willing to pay and carried that much in cash through the door. It is kind of fun to watch them sweat when you are showing them a nice stack of bills. But, more importantly, it is amazing how fast the bullshit turns to a straightforward negotiation when you are holding a fistful of cash.

Money talks.
If your offer was reasonable and you were someone worthy of helping (not an arrogant demanding buffoon) you would get a yes. If your offer is NOT reasonable you would get a "NO" and shown a bike that you could buy for that much. If you replied like an arrogant buffoon you would be escorted out the door.

A fistful of cash matters LESS than a smile and a jovial personality. Be someone they want to help and you will stand a better chance of getting what you want. The stack of hundreds only shows you are able. Show them you are worthy... Tell them you are able and leave the cash in your pocket.
__________________
“Watch out for everything bigger than you, they have the "right of weight"
Bib
DAKEZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 02:58 PM   #10
kraven
Hegelian Scum
 
kraven's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: Asheville NC
Oddometer: 4,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
If your offer was reasonable and you were someone worthy of helping (not an arrogant demanding buffoon) you would get a yes. If your offer is NOT reasonable you would get a "NO" and shown a bike that you could buy for that much. If you replied like an arrogant buffoon you would be escorted out the door.

A fistful of cash matters LESS than a smile and a jovial personality. Be someone they want to help and you will stand a better chance of getting what you want. The stack of hundreds only shows you are able. Show them you are worthy... Tell them you are able and leave the cash in your pocket.
Yep. Dakez is right on the money here.
Use your company manners. Don't get personal. Smile. And have fun.

Also remember that sales people in bike dealerships meet a fair number of dicks who think they're Richard Branson. If you're nice to the salesperson and get them to like you, you're gonna have a better experience. Charm goes a lot farther than acting like you're in a gunfight with Tuko over a grave full of gold.
__________________
So there I was walking into a biker bar in Chattanooga with liberty spikes on my head and a drag queen beside me... - bcurvin
kraven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 04:48 AM   #11
wb57
Beastly Adventurer
 
wb57's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: Central NC
Oddometer: 6,933
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
If your offer was reasonable and you were someone worthy of helping (not an arrogant demanding buffoon) you would get a yes. If your offer is NOT reasonable you would get a "NO" and shown a bike that you could buy for that much. If you replied like an arrogant buffoon you would be escorted out the door.

A fistful of cash matters LESS than a smile and a jovial personality. Be someone they want to help and you will stand a better chance of getting what you want. The stack of hundreds only shows you are able. Show them you are worthy... Tell them you are able and leave the cash in your pocket.
Had to reread this a couple times to make sure I read it correctly. As a customer, I need to prove I'm worthy of your product? Seriously? I need to be personable and witty to make a deal at your shop? Doesn't sound like the retailer/customer relationship I'm familiar with.

I contend you've got it 180 degrees out of phase here. The retailer needs to prove to me that he's worthy of my cash/business.

Had a dealer that I gave most of my new bike business and all of my parts/gear/accessories business for close to ten years. I spent an average of $5-6000/year in there. Shopping for a new bike last year, I called him (the owner) with a price I wanted to pay on a new bike. I had that price in hand from another dealer and asked if he'd match it. He told me he wouldn't take less than about 15% more than that. He's got his own methods and practices for staying in business and has been around for a good while. Went to the other dealer and bought the bike and took the rest of my business with me. In the previous ten years, I'd sent him plenty of other business and I've been more than "jovial" during that time. I know all the employees in parts and most in service and saw them off hours at races, etc.

I've been jovial, friendly, loyal and sent him business as well as spending well over $50K in there, but apparently that wasn't enough to even get a price match on a soon to be leftover model new bike. The other dealer was friendly to me and went above and beyond, in my opinion, what someone should do to get and keep a customer. I'll be damned if I'm going to be made to feel that it's MY job to make the dealer feel loved.
__________________
'10 Kawasaki Concours (EB)
'11 Kawasaki Versys

Turning money into spent fossil fuels.
(Smiley crap is implied in all posts.)
wb57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 06:19 AM   #12
Pantah
Patriot Nation?
 
Pantah's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: India Wharf
Oddometer: 10,116
I think all Dakez is saying is that it's a two way street. People who treat each other with respect can do better. Nobody wants to deal with a jerk. There isn't enough money at stake to put up with it and it's no fun.

Not sure why you are upset with your former dealer. He couldn't do your deal so you found one who would. Who knows why, but you got satisfaction anyway. He did you a favor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wb57 View Post

I've been jovial, friendly, loyal and sent him business as well as spending well over $50K in there, but apparently that wasn't enough to even get a price match on a soon to be leftover model new bike. The other dealer was friendly to me and went above and beyond, in my opinion, what someone should do to get and keep a customer. I'll be damned if I'm going to be made to feel that it's MY job to make the dealer feel loved.
__________________
Straight ahead and faster -Bo Weaver 1970
"There I was..." -Griffin Niner Three Hotel
"One day closer to a parade..." Jonny Gomes, spring training 2013
Pantah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 06:58 AM   #13
cliffy109
Beastly Adventurer
 
cliffy109's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Spotsylvania, VA
Oddometer: 1,635
Quote:
Originally Posted by wb57 View Post
Had to reread this a couple times to make sure I read it correctly. As a customer, I need to prove I'm worthy of your product? Seriously? I need to be personable and witty to make a deal at your shop? Doesn't sound like the retailer/customer relationship I'm familiar with.

I contend you've got it 180 degrees out of phase here. The retailer needs to prove to me that he's worthy of my cash/business.
Nope. He has it right. The arrogant, obnoxious prick customer is often the one who gets the best "deal" but that guy whom little money is made is often also the one who demands favors and extras down the line and the one who kills you on a customer satisfaction survey. It isn't worth selling vehicles to people like that. The cost to the dealer outweighs the of the benefits of the sale. The friendly, respectful customer is the one we should be giving the better deals to because in the long run, that's who we develop positive relationships with. It doesn't always work out that way because pushy and loud people are often very difficult to reject.

Your story is a sad tale to me. If you had such a good relationship with that dealer, why did you need to shop his price? Sounds like it wasn't such a good relationship after all. Who knows... maybe your story is complete and the dealer was foolish. Then again, maybe the other dealer had an incentive the first one didn't and was able to make a deal your original guy couldn't. Maybe the original dealer had a good reason why he couldn't come down on that particular model and maybe he tried everything he could to make the deal make sense for all parties.

Maybe the dealer looked at your history and realized that while you spent lots of money with him, he wasn't actually making any money and that you were costing him an inordinate amount of time and aggravation. I don't know. I wasn't there but your story is VERY familiar to me.
cliffy109 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 09:47 AM   #14
Human Ills
Useful Idiom
 
Human Ills's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: South (Dog help me) Bay
Oddometer: 23,021
Quote:
Originally Posted by wb57 View Post
Had to reread this a couple times to make sure I read it correctly. As a customer, I need to prove I'm worthy of your product? Seriously? I need to be personable and witty to make a deal at your shop? Doesn't sound like the retailer/customer relationship I'm familiar with.

I contend you've got it 180 degrees out of phase here. The retailer needs to prove to me that he's worthy of my cash/business.

Had a dealer that I gave most of my new bike business and all of my parts/gear/accessories business for close to ten years. I spent an average of $5-6000/year in there. Shopping for a new bike last year, I called him (the owner) with a price I wanted to pay on a new bike. I had that price in hand from another dealer and asked if he'd match it. He told me he wouldn't take less than about 15% more than that. He's got his own methods and practices for staying in business and has been around for a good while. Went to the other dealer and bought the bike and took the rest of my business with me. In the previous ten years, I'd sent him plenty of other business and I've been more than "jovial" during that time. I know all the employees in parts and most in service and saw them off hours at races, etc.

I've been jovial, friendly, loyal and sent him business as well as spending well over $50K in there, but apparently that wasn't enough to even get a price match on a soon to be leftover model new bike. The other dealer was friendly to me and went above and beyond, in my opinion, what someone should do to get and keep a customer. I'll be damned if I'm going to be made to feel that it's MY job to make the dealer feel loved.
Dakez is a negotiator by trade. What he's doing is called his 'opening offer'.
Human Ills is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 12:02 PM   #15
DAKEZ
Beastly Adventurer
 
DAKEZ's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: OR
Oddometer: 19,696
Quote:
Originally Posted by wb57 View Post
Had to reread this a couple times to make sure I read it correctly. As a customer, I need to prove I'm worthy of your product? Seriously? I need to be personable and witty to make a deal at your shop?


I called him (the owner) with a price I wanted to pay on a new bike. I had that price in hand from another dealer
You did NOT read it correctly.

In life the manner in which people treat others has an effect on how others feel about them. Act the way you like. You are always welcome. A smile is better than a scowl. Laughter better than a sneer.

Treat others well and they will WANT to help you. Treat them poorly and they MAY still help you but you could have done better for both yourself and them.

You should have gone into the store and spoken to him IMHO.
__________________
“Watch out for everything bigger than you, they have the "right of weight"
Bib

DAKEZ screwed with this post 11-27-2012 at 01:03 PM
DAKEZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 03:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014