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Old 12-20-2012, 01:35 PM   #1
pingvin OP
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Garmin - Route (partly) outside included roads

Sometimes the road/track continues even though not included in Garmin map. When I try to make waypoints outside the road it accepts it...but back-track and generate route to road with the closest distance to waypoint. And from this point to the new waypoint (easy to try, start with a couple of points on the road and then click a point outside road and see what happens).

Not what I want, I would like it to make a straight line from last point on road to new waypoint. And from this point to next to simulate approximate route.

Any way to force what I want to happen? Guess problem is it's a satnav intended to get people as quick as possible from A to B...on roads. Got a Zumo 550.
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Old 12-20-2012, 03:39 PM   #2
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I am not sure exactly what platform you are using to create the route. I didn't understand the SatNav part.

If you are creating the route in Mapsource or Basecamp, you can achieve your goal a couple of ways. If you get off a road in City Navigator, it does undesirable things.

When I want to do this I switch from City Navigator to Topo 100. Topo 100 is a non-routable map set. It will let you put waypoints anywhere you want and it will draw straight lines between them.

I understand you can select Direct Routing in either Mapsource or Basecamp or both and it does the same thing, but I have never tried this.

And of course I have no idea if there is such a thing as Topo 100k for Norway.
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:28 AM   #3
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If you had a "classic" Garmin, like the 376, you can do what you want to do - until the route recalcs. Then it will go back to road routing.

There are threads in here that cover that.

Don't think your Zumo will do it.

This is why foks use tracks, but your 550 won't handle tracks easily, either. You need a 66X Zumo for that.

Someone else may know a work aorund, but I don't know of any.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:54 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wbbnm View Post
I am not sure exactly what platform you are using to create the route. I didn't understand the SatNav part.
Mapsource
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Originally Posted by wbbnm View Post
When I want to do this I switch from City Navigator to Topo 100. Topo 100 is a non-routable map set. It will let you put waypoints anywhere you want and it will draw straight lines between them..
Problem is I want to be able to make a normal route where there are roads...then when roads stops, be able to keep clicking new waypoints with straight lines between them. So only topgraphic map won't work.
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I understand you can select Direct Routing in either Mapsource or Basecamp or both and it does the same thing, but I have never tried this.
OK, will look into it.
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And of course I have no idea if there is such a thing as Topo 100k for Norway.
Actually european Alps I'm planning for :)
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Originally Posted by 9Dave View Post
If you had a "classic" Garmin, like the 376, you can do what you want to do - until the route recalcs. Then it will go back to road routing.
Yes...doesn't help much that your routes look find on PC if GPS recalculates and mess up :(
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This is why foks use tracks, but your 550 won't handle tracks easily, either. You need a 66X Zumo for that.
OK. Need new satnav anyway after crashed this summer. But want garmin as all my routes are garmin. The zūmo 350LM looks nice, will it be as good as 66x regarding this?

Maybe biggest problem is wanting satnav to do both routes and tracks at the same time, having the straight lines as a type of route. Might have to do some field testing when snow clears.
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Old 12-21-2012, 11:37 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by pingvin View Post
OK. Need new satnav anyway after crashed this summer. But want garmin as all my routes are garmin. The zūmo 350LM looks nice, will it be as good as 66x regarding this?

Maybe biggest problem is wanting satnav to do both routes and tracks at the same time, having the straight lines as a type of route. Might have to do some field testing when snow clears.
No. The Zumo 350 does not handle tracks. You cannot create a track in MapSource or BaseCamp or get a track from a friend and then make it display on your screen. The 350 will let you "track back" over ground you have just covered, and will show that track and that track only on the screen, but that is not the same. I own a Zumo 350 and have tried all of this, and have asked Garmin to consider adding this capability in an update. If more people asked for it,l that could be good (hint hint ).

I believe the 660 or 665 will do the trick, as will the Montana.

All that being said, the Zumo 350 is a great unit for the road-going rider who doesn't care about tracks.
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Old 12-22-2012, 12:53 AM   #6
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OK, starting to realize I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm thinking that a track is a route just outside roads. But found this thread http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=428626 and now realize tracks and routes are just 2 different things.

So if I want to cross a mountain, I have to make a ROUTE to where road ends on gps map, stop, switch to TRACK and continue following point to point straight lines. Or really the road (that is there but just not included by Garmin) close to that line in my case. So not possible converting track part into route if no roads on map, right?

(For information: In Norway and many other european countries, it's not allowed going outside roads at all, not even if tracks. In Norway general rule is, if you can't drive your familiy car there, no motorized vehicles allowed. Fines here is anything from $2.000 for violating this).
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Old 12-22-2012, 04:47 AM   #7
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This is precisely the reason that the x76 units coupled with Mapsource are still the standard when it comes to building and navigating routes. With tracks, the GPS lays down straight lines from point to point as opposed to following the road. Also with tracks, you loose the single most important piece of information, distance to next turn. Following tracks requires far to much attention. Lots of stopping and zooming in and out to see if your on the right road. If you like guesswork and u turns, use tracks. Routes on the other hand require just a quick glance down to get all the information you need. Mapsource allows you to combine established roads and unmaped areas all into one easy to follow route.

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Old 12-22-2012, 04:57 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by bemiiten View Post
This is precisely the reason that the x76 units coupled with Mapsource are still the standard when it comes to building and navigating routes. With tracks, the GPS lays down straight lines from point to point as opposed to following the road. Also with tracks, you loose the single most important piece of information, distance to next turn. Following tracks requires far to much attention. Lots of stopping and zooming in and out to see if your on the right road. If you like guesswork and u turns, use tracks. Routes on the other hand require just a quick glance down to get all the information you need.
Obviously a man who knows the difference.
Well said Be-Mittens. Screw the convience of sharing tracks. I'd rather labor through creating a route instead and having the ability to relax while riding and take in the scenery. Let the GPS do the work for me. When I look down and see "DISTANCE TO NEXT TURN 13.6 MILES", well fock, I can settle in the saddle and enjoy the ride as the unit counts down, not constantly worry or be concentrating on when I need to turn. Screw that. Not to mention ETA and other usefull info. Makes a mega 2,500 mile offroad trip way more enjoyable.

I'd "adventure" with you anyday Be-Gloves....ehr, I mean Be-Mittens.
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Old 12-26-2012, 04:16 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by bemiiten View Post
This is precisely the reason that the x76 units coupled with Mapsource are still the standard when it comes to building and navigating routes. With tracks, the GPS lays down straight lines from point to point as opposed to following the road. Also with tracks, you loose the single most important piece of information, distance to next turn. Following tracks requires far to much attention. Lots of stopping and zooming in and out to see if your on the right road. If you like guesswork and u turns, use tracks. Routes on the other hand require just a quick glance down to get all the information you need. Mapsource allows you to combine established roads and unmaped areas all into one easy to follow route.
Agree with part of this. I do love my 376c

Navigating tracks is not an issue for me on my 60csx or 376c. I just glance at the screen every now and then and see what's coming up. I have no problems with zooming in/out, but then again I leave it zoomed in pretty far.

And if you really want to have fun, the 376c will navigate a track as well.
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:10 PM   #10
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Agree with part of this. I do love my 376c

Navigating tracks is not an issue for me on my 60csx or 376c. I just glance at the screen every now and then and see what's coming up. I have no problems with zooming in/out, but then again I leave it zoomed in pretty far.

And if you really want to have fun, the 376c will navigate a track as well.
You're very much in the minority. I've ridden with plenty of people that constantly have to back track because they missed turns following both tracks and routes. Some of them on STREET rides even. Then of course there were the 2 guys I know that wrecked because they were staring down at their GPS tracks instead of watching where they were riding.

The only sure way not to miss turns is voice prompts from routes.
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:32 PM   #11
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:04 PM   #12
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You're very much in the minority. I've ridden with plenty of people that constantly have to back track because they missed turns following both tracks and routes. Some of them on STREET rides even. Then of course there were the 2 guys I know that wrecked because they were staring down at their GPS tracks instead of watching where they were riding.

The only sure way not to miss turns is voice prompts from routes.

-1.

I gave up on routes several years ago because of many problems with routing and I now use tracks for bike trips.

I was recently on a business trip with two guys who were using routing with audible directions for simple navigating around a city. The unit was giving ridiculous directions and which got even worse when the driver properly ignored them.

I guess there must some secrets to making routing work, but I have never found them.
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Old 12-27-2012, 04:38 AM   #13
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You're very much in the minority. I've ridden with plenty of people that constantly have to back track because they missed turns following both tracks and routes. Some of them on STREET rides even. Then of course there were the 2 guys I know that wrecked because they were staring down at their GPS tracks instead of watching where they were riding.

The only sure way not to miss turns is voice prompts from routes.
Very much disagree.

Almost Every major event I have ridden has distributed track information because it doesn't change, unlike routes, which change when recalc'd, and are worthless if someone gives you one that was developed with a different data set.

There was one event I rode where the organizers created a custom mapset for Garmin and then loaded that. They had played with the road specs to convert their track to a road, and then load that. While it was good because it worked, it sucked because they wiped out your mapset on units that only had a limited basemap.

And if you are on a street ride, you shouldn't have a problem with missing roads and having to connect sections, which is what the OP asked about.

As for voice prompts, you are assuming the use of a unit with audio output capability, and the rider using a headset, or speakers.

But it all comes down to the "different strokes for different folks". I'll stick with what I have for now.
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Old 12-22-2012, 08:06 AM   #14
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OK, starting to realize I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm thinking that a track is a route just outside roads. But found this thread http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=428626 and now realize tracks and routes are just 2 different things.

So if I want to cross a mountain, I have to make a ROUTE to where road ends on gps map, stop, switch to TRACK and continue following point to point straight lines. Or really the road (that is there but just not included by Garmin) close to that line in my case. So not possible converting track part into route if no roads on map, right?

(For information: In Norway and many other european countries, it's not allowed going outside roads at all, not even if tracks. In Norway general rule is, if you can't drive your familiy car there, no motorized vehicles allowed. Fines here is anything from $2.000 for violating this).
If you want to navigate in area where a routable mapset does not have roads, you pretty much have to use tracks. But a really good way to create a track is first create a route and then convert the route into a track. And as I said in the previous post there are two ways of creating mixed-mode routes. First is switching between routable and nonroutable mapsets. And second is switching between Follow Road and Direct routing.

You can create a track directly using the track draw tool in Mapsource. It is a little tedious but I have done it lots of times.

There is a free 3rd party software package called Wingdb3 that will do all kinds of track/route conversions. I use that now. And Basecamp will convert routes to tracks.

It is a matter of personal preference about whether to navigate with routes or tracks. I have had so many bad experiences with routes that I only use tracks now except for ad hoc changes. I use a lot of mixed-mode routes/ tracks and the GPS unit really gets upset when you go off a known road in a routeable mapset like City Navigator when you are using routes.
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Old 12-22-2012, 08:16 AM   #15
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If you want to navigate in area where a routable mapset does not have roads, you pretty much have to use tracks. .
This is incorrect.
Everyone of the below RR links I have done over thousands of miles, have all had, mapped and unmapped sections involved. All made with Mapsource and ran on our 276c/478 units without fail.
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DockingPilot screwed with this post 12-22-2012 at 09:38 AM
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