Dakar: KTM great but why not 2-strokes?

SnakeBreak · 01-27-2013, 02:55 PM

So I watch as much of Dakar as I could and the top riders are riding KTM 450's. Why not 2-smokes? Why 300exc is way simpler to fix and has less to go wrong? In the USA I would say it is rules against 2-strokes on the road, but down there?

STisma · 01-27-2013, 03:22 PM

I think it has to do with the torque.

Katoom72 · 01-27-2013, 03:23 PM

Long stretches of WFO and 2stroke don't go well togeather.

SnakeBreak · 01-27-2013, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katoom72

Long stretches of WFO and 2stroke don't go well togeather.

Why is that? I am sure you right but I do not understand why. It seems a 2-stroke 400 or 600 would make massive power /weight and you would not have to run WOT. They put 2-strokes in boats and they run WOT all the time.

crofrog · 01-27-2013, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katoom72

Long stretches of WFO and 2stroke don't go well togeather.

when they aren't jetted right...

but 2 strokes seriously suck gas which would add allot of weight for a dakar bike.

WARRIORPRINCEJJ · 01-27-2013, 06:03 PM

Luis!!!

snarf · 01-28-2013, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katoom72

Long stretches of WFO and 2stroke don't go well togeather.

Sure they do. 500s used to rule the desert for years and years.

Racer111v · 01-27-2013, 04:35 PM

Baja has been won many times by 2Ts. It doesn't get much more wide open than that. But the manufactures want to sell 450 4Ts, so guess what they race.

Brokein2 · 01-27-2013, 06:02 PM

I don't know about you, but I would not want to try and figure out proper race jetting for a day that has a 3000 meter elevation change. Maybe fuel injected 2 strokes would be ok....

crofrog · 01-27-2013, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katoom72

Long stretches of WFO and 2stroke don't go well togeather.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brokein2

I don't know about you, but I would not want to try and figure out proper race jetting for a day that has a 3000 meter elevation change. Maybe fuel injected 2 strokes would be ok....

not really that different the carbed 4 strokes though.

FI brings it's own problems ask HRC

tHEtREV · 01-27-2013, 08:29 PM

Fuel consumption.

Any weight saving from a two stroke is taken up by the extra fuel it would have to carry.

My 200 used to use 10l per 100k on gravel roads taking it easy, my 4 strokes use between 5 and 6 liters per 100k.

Considering 30l was not enough for an FI 450 ridden by a front runner, how much fuel would you need for a 300 2t?

Yellow Pig · 01-28-2013, 07:11 AM

Plus the oil you have to carry for refueling

snarf · 01-28-2013, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow Pig

Plus the oil you have to carry for refueling

Most of the time, guys allready mix the premix in, before they take the fuel to the fuel stops.

2T uses more fuel than a 4T?

If its not jetted right, sure they do. My 300 sips gas, why? Because its jetted right, lol.. I get 35+ mpg out of it just tooling around, and about 30 at race pace.

Manufacturers DONT WANT to race the 2T's, otherwise they would. Thats why.

crofrog · 01-28-2013, 11:04 AM

Either your bike is dangerously lean or your idea of race pace and mine don't line up at all. I get about 20 out of my 200 during race. Jetted for max power clean plugs and no spooge.

toro618 · 01-28-2013, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crofrog

Either your bike is dangerously lean or your idea of race pace and mine don't line up at all. I get about 20 out of my 200 during race. Jetted for max power clean plugs and no spooge.

Sorry to hijack, but how do you avoid no spooge? I always thought even if jetted perfectly, the motor will not burn 100% of the 2T oil.

01-27-2013, 02:55 PM	#1
SnakeBreak ^OP Adventurer Joined: Apr 2012 Location: Pullman Washington Oddometer: 28	Dakar: KTM great but why not 2-strokes? So I watch as much of Dakar as I could and the top riders are riding KTM 450's. Why not 2-smokes? Why 300exc is way simpler to fix and has less to go wrong? In the USA I would say it is rules against 2-strokes on the road, but down there?

01-27-2013, 03:22 PM	#2
STisma Adventurer Joined: Jul 2010 Location: Chicago, IL Oddometer: 46	I think it has to do with the torque. __________________ ____________________________________ If it can go wrong, it will go wrong!!!

01-27-2013, 06:03 PM	#6
WARRIORPRINCEJJ Not in the clique... Joined: Jun 2009 Location: South Central Texas Oddometer: 6,799	Luis!!! __________________ I spent all my money on motorcycles, 4X4's, whiskey, and women...The rest I just wasted. (edited to fit/original phrase by "WIBO") "There's a WEALTH of cool people and knowledge on ADV, there's also a decent sized pocket of douche bag assholes that think their ADV forum Post Count (Oddometer) is their badge at being experienced riders." goodcat8

01-27-2013, 06:02 PM	#9
Brokein2 Adventurer Joined: Feb 2010 Oddometer: 92	I don't know about you, but I would not want to try and figure out proper race jetting for a day that has a 3000 meter elevation change. Maybe fuel injected 2 strokes would be ok.... __________________ Craig A. '09 990 ADV

01-27-2013, 08:29 PM	#11
tHEtREV tEAM iDIOT Joined: Apr 2007 Location: Middle Park, Brisbane, Australia Oddometer: 5,516	Fuel consumption. Any weight saving from a two stroke is taken up by the extra fuel it would have to carry. My 200 used to use 10l per 100k on gravel roads taking it easy, my 4 strokes use between 5 and 6 liters per 100k. Considering 30l was not enough for an FI 450 ridden by a front runner, how much fuel would you need for a 300 2t? __________________ tEAM iDIOT... tHE oRIGINAL. Hard Core Dirt Touring.

01-27-2013, 03:23 PM	#3
Katoom72 Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Jun 2012 Location: Belgium Oddometer: 382	Long stretches of WFO and 2stroke don't go well togeather.

01-27-2013, 04:35 PM	#8
Racer111v Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Aug 2011 Location: Hudson, NH Oddometer: 136	Baja has been won many times by 2Ts. It doesn't get much more wide open than that. But the manufactures want to sell 450 4Ts, so guess what they race.

01-28-2013, 07:11 AM	#12
Yellow Pig Allergic to Asphalt! Joined: Oct 2004 Location: Colorado Oddometer: 5,987	Plus the oil you have to carry for refueling __________________ So Many Idiots, So Few Comets!!!!!!!!!

01-28-2013, 11:04 AM	#14
crofrog Beastly Adventurer Joined: Sep 2007 Location: Annapolis Maryland Oddometer: 1,376	Either your bike is dangerously lean or your idea of race pace and mine don't line up at all. I get about 20 out of my 200 during race. Jetted for max power clean plugs and no spooge.

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