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Old 07-24-2013, 10:37 PM   #1
GREY.HOUND OP
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Chewing the Fat about Maxi Scooters again

So, what do you think is the future here in the States? Is Honda done with the Silverwing here? What about the Burgman scooters are they up for significant remodeling? The TMAX is now gone and BMW have brought over they're full featured models.

With the intro of the new CTX700 series, I wonder if they will use that to replace the Silverwing. Too bad it doesn't have as much built in storage or leg protection like a scooter. Honda actually has some really attractive MC's in the new 500's and DCT bikes.

I'm going to chime in on my thoughts for the BMW again here. Some day I may opt for something bigger. More stable in high speeds, more reserve power. That all being said, my Aprilia is perfect for 90% of my riding, but on weekends if I ride the big hills, I struggle at times. I like the big wheels, luxury features, and slightly different styling than the other brands. Oh and yes I would like ABS too.

Any time I look at bigger motorcycles, I keep thinking about how and why I got a scooter. I like the seating position, the underseat storage, the twist and go and of course the protection.

Despite it's cost of about $11000, with all of the features, that isn't terrible. The Honda's, NC700 and CTX700's, with all the options come in not too far from that.

Just rambling here while I watch the Giants continue they're horrible play.

GH
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Old 07-25-2013, 08:29 AM   #2
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Hey there sir! I ride SportCity 250 as well, and my friend just got a Tmax (again). The dealer down the block from where we work has Tmax and the Korean knock off as well as plenty of scooters to choose including Maxi such as Burgmans.

I really don't see these going away, but rather just be coming back in different versions. In New York scooters seem to be quite on the rise.

Few days ago I took my Sportcity to Bear mountain, and I really had no problem driving with his Tmax. The only times he left me, we when he accelerated hard for no reason and took off on the highway, but most cases I could anticipate where he'll speed up and just crank it earlier.

I drove his 500cc beast, and while I love the way it looks and how comfy it is, I would not want to change my scoot for his. Just accelerating up to 60 is such an event on my aprilia. It really want to go fast and makes all this drama getting up to speed. It's so much fun. On his I was doing 70 without even noticing. If I rode highways a lot it would be nice. But I am plenty happy on my Aprilia.

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Old 07-25-2013, 09:33 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GREY.HOUND View Post
So, what do you think is the future here in the States? Is Honda done with the Silverwing here? What about the Burgman scooters are they up for significant remodeling? The TMAX is now gone and BMW have brought over they're full featured models.

With the intro of the new CTX700 series, I wonder if they will use that to replace the Silverwing. Too bad it doesn't have as much built in storage or leg protection like a scooter. Honda actually has some really attractive MC's in the new 500's and DCT bikes.

I'm going to chime in on my thoughts for the BMW again here. Some day I may opt for something bigger. More stable in high speeds, more reserve power. That all being said, my Aprilia is perfect for 90% of my riding, but on weekends if I ride the big hills, I struggle at times. I like the big wheels, luxury features, and slightly different styling than the other brands. Oh and yes I would like ABS too.

Any time I look at bigger motorcycles, I keep thinking about how and why I got a scooter. I like the seating position, the underseat storage, the twist and go and of course the protection.

Despite it's cost of about $11000, with all of the features, that isn't terrible. The Honda's, NC700 and CTX700's, with all the options come in not too far from that.

Just rambling here while I watch the Giants continue they're horrible play.

GH
The only problem I have with the CTX and other new Honda Scooter like offerings is the chain final drive. I know modern chains require a lot less attention, but they are still dirty and require adjustment. A lot of scooter folks like their belts, clean and no adjustments needed. Yes we pay a mpg penalty for variators and centrifugal clutches but most seem ok with the trade off. Now, the BMW scoots have a chain final drive, but it's enclosed and does not need adjusting, I'm fine with that, as long as the housing doesn't leak.
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Old 07-25-2013, 10:32 AM   #4
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I see maxi scooters as having a bright future in the USA as well as other parts of the world. IMO there are 2 main reasons for this. First is the bigger is better attitude. Many won't accept the smaller scooters because "they're too small". Second, there is an increasing trend towards bike that are "easier" to ride and operate. Look at the increase in the number of trikes and Spyders on the road. Also, fewer and fewer young people know how to operate a manual transmission and people of all ages choose auto over manual by a wide margin in their cars.

Personally I prefer a manual transmission and don't buy into the "bigger better" train of thought. I don't see a large maxi scooter in my future but I have been known to change my mind before so who knows
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:36 AM   #5
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I took a long (for me) ride over the last weekend (1200 miles in 4 days). I noticed a lot more Spyders than I ever seen before (mostly on the highways). I am considering selling my DR650 and buying a Majesty (400) or Burgman 400/650 or a Silver Wing. My wife and I both have Reflex scooters but the additional cc just makes highways that much more ride-able.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:55 AM   #6
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One more thing that I forgot. Maxi scooters seem to have really good seats for the passenger. This is a big advantage over many motorcycles. Except for some large touring bikes, very few motorcycles come with a very good passenger seat. It seems that most motorcycle seat are designed for style, not comfort. For me, this is one of the draws of the max scoots. I would consider getting a DT300 as a 2 up scooter. It's still much lighter and more nimble than most maxi scooters but offers a really nice passenger seat. My Sport City works OK 2 up but could use a better passenger seat and a little more power for climbing hills when 2 up.

A Burgman 650 would obviously be more comfortable and have a lot more power but the extra weight and size is not something I want for the back road riding I prefer the most.
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Old 07-25-2013, 12:17 PM   #7
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Absolutely right Klaviator!

The seats are very comfortable. One thing also that I was shocked by was how tiny the scooters look in the showroom.

On the road my friends tmax looks HUUUGE... I walked into a showroom and it looked sooo tiny.

So I totally see why people buy the large ones.
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronco638 View Post
I took a long (for me) ride over the last weekend (1200 miles in 4 days). I noticed a lot more Spyders than I ever seen before (mostly on the highways). I am considering selling my DR650 and buying a Majesty (400) or Burgman 400/650 or a Silver Wing. My wife and I both have Reflex scooters but the additional cc just makes highways that much more ride-able.
I bought an '05 Majesty just to commute to work because my 1900cc Roadliner seemed to be a bit of overkill for a short 10 mile trip each way. before long I found myself riding it more than the Roadliner or the DR650. I loved the convenience of putting my backpack under the seat, ride to work, pull out the backpack and store the helmet in there. I didn't want to carry the helmet in with me all the time and since I ride daily, year-round, I am concerned about UV deterioration of the helmet hanging in the sun 10-12 hrs a day... every day. I've done many 4-500 mile days, much of it at 80-85mph on the highway, and it was very comfortable and stable. Now the DR and Roadliner are gone and I only sold the Majesty to make room for a BMW C650GT. The GT is my only bike at the moment. After the bank account heals, I'll probably add an old BMW /6 and a Moto Guzzi Stelvio to round out the fleet.



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Old 07-25-2013, 12:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
I see maxi scooters as having a bright future in the USA as well as other parts of the world. IMO there are 2 main reasons for this. First is the bigger is better attitude. Many won't accept the smaller scooters because "they're too small". Second, there is an increasing trend towards bike that are "easier" to ride and operate. Look at the increase in the number of trikes and Spyders on the road. Also, fewer and fewer young people know how to operate a manual transmission and people of all ages choose auto over manual by a wide margin in their cars.

Personally I prefer a manual transmission and don't buy into the "bigger better" train of thought. I don't see a large maxi scooter in my future but I have been known to change my mind before so who knows
I third that. I am not a fan of variatiors and belts but I am in a tiny minority (of two apparently) and its clear the automatic scooter is the future.
I too wonder why the new generation Honda motorcycles don't offer belt final drive but it's clear motorcycle manufacturers have a plan, and automatics are coming everywhere.
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Old 07-25-2013, 12:47 PM   #10
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My car, a Mazda 3, has a shiftable automatic. While not the same as a complete manual, I don't see ever driving a manual transmission car ever again. This type of transmission is perfect IMO. I get similar control and feel when I want it and freedom when I don't feel like it.

So, as for bikes, I think the DCT is great. For the record, I almost forked out the cash for a spyder last summer. I've always thought they were pretty cool but wasn't sure I'd even enjoy riding. Now that I do know I love it, I don't know I can justify the cost. If a spyder were in the cards, it would be my everyday, everytime vehicle.

I love my SC, in fact I just got back from a pleasure ride in the Sierra foothills and it performed flawlessly and I've been getting about 75 mpg no matter where or how I ride. Last week I went up high into the Sierra's and had it WOT for a 10 mile stretch (I could just keep it over 55mph WOT; speed limit is 60 on that pass) anyway, still got 75 mpg. While I was smiling the whole time, I don't think it's good for the bike to do that regularly. And, it is a common destination for since it's only 1 hour from the house, but again, it's at over 6000' elevation, the last 10 miles going from 1500' to 6000'

I still like all of the fairing offered by scooters and the left hand brake and general comfort of my scooter. It's just unfortunate not to have a lot of options in the bigger sizes, yet...
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Old 07-25-2013, 01:26 PM   #11
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I hope to be in the Maxi Scooter owners group here soon. Actually getting my Jeep fixed up so I can sell or trade it for a Burgman or Silverwing. Or see what I can buy in the way of a Helix, Reflex or even an older Elite 250. I ride my Elite 150D right now and love it, but that extra speed would be nice. I plan to do a few long rides and maybe even something cross country and although I don't plan on taking the interstate, having that extra power and would be nice on some of the longer stretches of US and State routes. And if luck holds my way, I might headed to Reno soon to work, and that trip from Reno to Lake Tahoe looks like fun, and a longer trip from Reno to Las Vegas would be a blast.
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Old 07-25-2013, 04:23 PM   #12
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I was just talking about this with a friend today. In my opinion I like the current Kymco 300, Piaggio BV350 and Vespa 300. They are Maxi scooters to me. If I go for a ride on my Symba and then hop on my HD200, the 200 feels like a Goldwing to me. Also that 171cc will take me to speeds fast enough to vaporize myself. Larger scooters are getting into American hog class. The big scooters are just getting too big in my opinion(but Im getting old). I dont even want to think about pushing one around the shop. Their automatic touring motorcycles with small wheels. Like the Burgmans, Beemers and Majasty's.
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Old 07-25-2013, 05:06 PM   #13
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I am 64, love my Silverwing and FJR1300AE. Love the shaft drive Yamaha with no clutch, and belt drive Honda with no clutch. I want to ride forever if I can. That's not going to happen and with my failing left hand I'm happy that Honda and Yamaha offer me the chance to extend it out as far as I can. In my opinion used low mileage Silverwings are huge bargains and they are out there. I test rode a C650GT and it was amazing, but not $11K amazing compared to my $4K used Swing with 4K miles. Honda has nothing new that would sway me away from the Silverwing.
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Old 07-25-2013, 05:35 PM   #14
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Hopefully there will continue to be non BMW maxi scooters available here. I can't see myself owning anything made by BMW. I am not yet ready for one, I still have a fairly easy to ride and very comfortable motorcycle. But it has very high mileage on it, and my plans were to replace it with a maxi scooter. I own 3 smaller scooters and love them. But a highway capable scooter would be nice. I like the riding position, comfort, automatic transmission, and storage space on them.

As far as the CXT700 goes, I think it is a great bike, with a great riding position, and I don't mind modern chain drive at all. Most modern chains last longer than CVT belts, and require very little maintenance. If I understand the DCT right, it should have a much wider gear range (specifically a lower gear ratio) than CVT scooters. I enjoy manual transmissions more, but shifting hurts, which takes a lot of the fun out of it anymore. But I still like the super low first gear of a manual transmission that a CVT lacks. The 2 issues I have with the CTX is lack of storage, and the fact that you still have to throw your leg over the seat. I love how easy it is to get on and off my small scooters.
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Old 07-26-2013, 05:42 AM   #15
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I started out riding on scooters (a Vespa) back in the early 60's. Now that I am getting older my arthritis (getting on and off the bike) doesn't cooperate with motorcycles and me anymore. I also have problems pulling a clutch due to hand problems (a bad thumb joint). So for me, it was either give up riding or switch back to scooters. I am not ready to give up riding and I already had a Honda Helix 250 that I had originally bought for my wife but it turned out that she was ready to give up riding for health issues of her own. We have both become as you might say, large ecomony sized people as we have aged. I weight 240 pounds and I am not even going to speculate as to what my wife weighs (I have been married 33 years so I know better than to do that). So anyhow, the Helix wasn't cutting the mustard for two up riding. I enjoyed riding it solo but I was looking for something a bit larger so we could ride together comfortably. We ended up trading the Helix on a lightly used Suzuki Burgman 650 Executive. We both love the Burgman. I have also kept my V-Strom 650 for those times I am feeling good and am riding solo. I have found that my left hand does pretty good with the clutch on the V-Strom as long as I stay out of cities on the bike so I am not pulling the clutch too often. It is not getting ridden very much though, so I expect that I will sell it if the right buyer comes along.

So, is the Burgman a Maxi-scooter or a motorcycle? I feel that it is both. It is a scooter for the great things about scooters; the step through, the twist and go, and the smaller wheels than most motorcycles have. It is a motorcycle due to the larger displacement engine and the fact that I can run the bike two-up on the interstate all day if I choose to (I usually prefer to stay off of those things).
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