Honda CH125 Spacy (Elite) -> 150cc?

[Black Sheep Radical]

Hi all, I'm new here. I recently bought a job lot of Honda Spacy scooters - four in total, along with a big pile of spare parts. One had to be scrapped with a rotten frame, but two others are up and running and being used. The third is missing its exhaust and needs a rebore, which got me thinking... I see that in the US you got a 150cc version and I was wondering how hard it would be to uprate this one? You can buy Chinese 150cc cylinder kits off eBay for about £50, and I've seen 2nd hand CH150 exhausts on US eBay, but what else would I need to change? I imagine it'd need a bigger main jet, but beyond that I'm not sure. These scooters were never big sellers in the UK, and information is hard to come by.

I get about 50-52mph top speed from the one I'm riding, does that sound about right? I've seen in a few places that the 150 is good for high 50s sort of speeds so as I've got to replace the top end and buy an exhaust anyway it seems sensible to try this.

Here's the one I'm riding round on at the moment



and this is the one that I'd like to make into a 150



All suggestions gratefully received!

[Bandit240]

What about a cylinder from a 150cc engine? Ive got a parts engine with a good cylinder. Maybe take that and use it. The head may be the same.

You dont happen to have some spare parts to sell? The taillight would be a cool item to swap onto a US spec elite. I like how it has the turn signals built into it.

[windburn]

Brockster may Post here when he sees this and he can give you some information. However Murphy's law applies here. "No good Idea will go unpunished". It seems that parts are really different. the better trade out may be to find a salvaged motor and CVT drive line just like the one you have and do a swap. I have a very successful change out on my 1985 Helix with 2004 running gear went from 37,000 to 2,400 miles of use on the engine and CVT drive line. I found it on Ebay and bought for $800. I was riding it today with delight, change the oil this afternoon on schedule. It purrs quietly at Idle. the wind is louder then the motor.
If anyone is interested in a used Helix engine with a blown head gasket and 37,000 let me know it come with it's running gear with new Rear clutch assembly and Belt.

I read this Idea on the net one time. The Exhaust ware out too quickly so the suggestion was to soak the inside by using WD40 I did that. then I used stove High Heat Paint and Painted the outside of my rusty muffler stove black. The muffler was well used when I bought the Helix and I have put 9700 miles of additional use on the muffler.

[brockster]

Yep. I did the swap. Most of the grunt work was by myself. Others helped with supplies, morale, or mid-course corrections.

The shocks and axle were different lengths, but we were able to change them successfully without to much drama. In fact, the axle just dropped in and only needed a spacer if I remembered correctly. Windburn's swap was a little easier.

Links on the swap with photos and such. This was over a period of many months. If you know what you're doing and/or have the service manual - it will go faster.
http://www.gemcityrollersscooterclub....php?f=8&t=213
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showt...ht=Honda+CH150

The main things that I recall was that the rear shocks were different lengths and mounted differently. The rear axle on one of the engines was longer. If we could figure it out - I'm SURE that you can!

Also, there is a small brass(?) nipple off of maybe the carb. That is for the temperature sensor or thermostat. Make sure there is a hose on there and not an electrical connector (ahem). Jeremy in our club caught that error, much to his amusement.

Fortunately, the swap was not TOO hard. I did need some help with some minor issues from a couple of other club members, and eventually Jim & Don @ scootersourceinc.com. It's running now, but it needs some electrical work.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Today, just in a fit of perversion, I threw 1-2 ounces of VERY old and stinky gas into the Elite's tank to see if I could get away with it today. I didn't. The bike stalled in Oregonia and refused to run for more than a couple seconds for several times. After about 15 minutes, I finally got it going, ran it hard and got it home. 18000 miles on the body now and almost 800 miles since the drivetrain swap.

[Black Sheep Radical]

Thanks for the replies so far guys, interesting reading. The trouble is I have very little chance of acquiring a complete CH150 motor here as they were never officially sold in the UK. So I was thinking that I could replace the barrel & piston on my existing engine with a 150cc version, along with a CH150 exhaust. I imagine the carb would need upjetting, but it appears that the cylinder head is different - it has a different part number anyway. What I really need to know is what parts I'd need to swap in order to convert my existing motor to 150cc spec.

If this proves to be too problematic, then fair enough. I've had another (probably equally silly) idea. At Jack's Scooter Shop it says this:

Heck, it's even possible to shoehorn in an Elite 250 engine. You'll have to remove the centerstand and make some other minor changes.

OK, here's how my logic works: the Elite/Spacy 250 engine is very similar to the Helix engine. Therefore I should be able to buy one of the Helix clones that pop up on eBay every now and again, remove the engine and stuff it in my Spacy. Please feel free to pick holes in this argument :)

Don't worry about the practicality of this arrangement too much, I've got a garage full of working scooters to carry me to where I need to go. I'm just looking to have a bit of fun!

[brockster]

I've heard of people putting a Elite 250 in a 150/125 frame, with only minor issues. Google that.


Much to my amusement today, I told my wife that I'm the only person I know that has DOWNSIZED their scooter's engine size...

[Black Sheep Radical]

Originally Posted by brockster

Much to my amusement today, I told my wife that I'm the only person I know that has DOWNSIZED their scooter's engine size...

Yes, I was thinking pretty much the same thing

[fullmetalscooter]

go to yahhoo elite 250 group because more then one guy has done the 250 cc swap.

[brockster]

Originally Posted by Black Sheep Radical

...I get about 50-52mph top speed from the one I'm riding, does that sound about right? I've seen in a few places that the 150 is good for high 50s sort of speeds...

On either scooter, acceleration after the 48-49mph points is glacial.

Originally Posted by Black Sheep Radical

This is something I've been looking into as well. This article is the only one I've found on the subject so far.

[Black Sheep Radical]

Originally Posted by brockster

On either scooter, acceleration after the 48-49mph points is glacial.

Sounds like mine must be working well then