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Old 02-21-2010, 07:43 PM   #106
Wylie
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Location: Shoshone, Idaho
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I just talked to the guys father on the phone as the owner isn't around. Estimated 25 hours a year and it was bought new in 03. No real maintenance to speak of and it sounds as though the bike is very likely to be in stock form.

So I'm looking at an 03 with potentially 175 hours and likley more on the clock and very little to maybe no maintenance.

So what would be the thoughts of the more knowledgeable which I'm sure the greater percentage here are?

I know nothing of the maintenance intervals and although the budget is going to be tight I'd like to start out as fresh as I can with this bike to know where to take maintenance from the point of sale.

When I take a look at it, what should I focus on as to avoid potential issues other then the obvious such as leaks and so one? Wrap the piss out of it during the test ride?

I was just told of another KTM in the general area today as well, I'm hoping it's a 300 and maybe closer to my tight ass budget.
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Wylie screwed with this post 02-21-2010 at 07:59 PM
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Old 02-21-2010, 08:20 PM   #107
MeterPig
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Did they change the oil and filter? If so-go for it.

This bike and others like it (KDX) are not the maintenance bikes one might think of. Buy it and if it makes you feel better-change out the piston and rings.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wylie
I just talked to the guys father on the phone as the owner isn't around. Estimated 25 hours a year and it was bought new in 03. No real maintenance to speak of and it sounds as though the bike is very likely to be in stock form.

So I'm looking at an 03 with potentially 175 hours and likley more on the clock and very little to maybe no maintenance.

So what would be the thoughts of the more knowledgeable which I'm sure the greater percentage here are?

I know nothing of the maintenance intervals and although the budget is going to be tight I'd like to start out as fresh as I can with this bike to know where to take maintenance from the point of sale.

When I take a look at it, what should I focus on as to avoid potential issues other then the obvious such as leaks and so one? Wrap the piss out of it during the test ride?

I was just told of another KTM in the general area today as well, I'm hoping it's a 300 and maybe closer to my tight ass budget.
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Old 02-21-2010, 08:38 PM   #108
GR0NK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wylie
I just talked to the guys father on the phone as the owner isn't around. Estimated 25 hours a year and it was bought new in 03. No real maintenance to speak of and it sounds as though the bike is very likely to be in stock form.

So I'm looking at an 03 with potentially 175 hours and likley more on the clock and very little to maybe no maintenance.

So what would be the thoughts of the more knowledgeable which I'm sure the greater percentage here are?

I know nothing of the maintenance intervals and although the budget is going to be tight I'd like to start out as fresh as I can with this bike to know where to take maintenance from the point of sale.

When I take a look at it, what should I focus on as to avoid potential issues other then the obvious such as leaks and so one? Wrap the piss out of it during the test ride?

I was just told of another KTM in the general area today as well, I'm hoping it's a 300 and maybe closer to my tight ass budget.
You should go poke around in the two-stroke section at www.ktmtalk.com
You will find all the answers to your questions.

Basically the 300 is and always has been an "enduro" tuned motor. They tend to run a long time on a top-end and the transmissions are bulletproof.

Suspension would likely need to be redone, seals and new oil in the very least, and maybe the usual stuff like chain, sprockets, wheel bearings and perhaps steering head bearings. None of this will break the bank though.

Proper warm-up is crucial to 2t longevity. Make sure the bike is cold and ask him to start it and ride it himself first. If he gets on it and goes without letting it warm up (a couple minutes at least) then I would be a bit concerned. Not much but definitely a bit about the condition of the cylinder. The rings and cylinder wear faster if you ride hard before the motor is fully warmed up; that's just basic 2t knowledge.

Ride the bike through all the gears. Try finding neutral from first and second. Check the clutch action too. A stiff clutch could mean something as simple as a seizing cable or it could mean the basket is getting grooved.

Check for slop in the rear shock bushings. Just lifting on the rear of the bike will show you if there is too much play.

Check the transmission oil to make sure it is not milky, a sign that is is leaking coolant into it.



Sean
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Old 02-21-2010, 08:46 PM   #109
Wylie
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Hey thanks Meter Pig I missed you post there at first until I checked my emails.

I've taken notes GRONK, Thanks!
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Okay so I'm not Super Man. I'm just the jack of many trades, master of some yet to find and as the world turns that would only be for a matter of time.

Okay, screw it, stop the world I'm getting off.

Wylie screwed with this post 02-21-2010 at 09:49 PM
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Old 02-21-2010, 11:07 PM   #110
MeterPig
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Quote:
Proper warm-up is crucial to 2t longevity. Make sure the bike is cold and ask him to start it and ride it himself first. If he gets on it and goes without letting it warm up (a couple minutes at least) then I would be a bit concerned. Not much but definitely a bit about the condition of the cylinder. The rings and cylinder wear faster if you ride hard before the motor is fully warmed up; that's just basic 2t knowledge.
I had never heard this outside general "let the bike warm up". How are two strokes more prone to problems with cold running than four strokes?

My thought is that when cold-the cylinder and piston are cold and therefore there is more "space" between two during cold running. Under acceleration the motor would warm up quickly right?


Just curious your thoughts on this.
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Old 02-22-2010, 01:12 AM   #111
GR0NK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeterPig
I had never heard this outside general "let the bike warm up". How are two strokes more prone to problems with cold running than four strokes?

My thought is that when cold-the cylinder and piston are cold and therefore there is more "space" between two during cold running. Under acceleration the motor would warm up quickly right?


Just curious your thoughts on this.
You have dissimilar metals for the piston, rings and cylinder and they are designed to fit proper at operating temperature. They have different expansion rates so you need to let the temps increase gradually. If you have a tight piston with new rings and you load the motor when cold, you risk having the piston expand faster than the cylinder can tolerate. The oil in your pre-mix is also designed to work optimally at a certain temperature, too cold and it cannot migrate fast enough to properly lubricate the cylinder walls. (imagine pouring some olive oil in a cold frying pan vs a hot one; see how it flows quickly in the hot pan? Its time in the cylinder is very limited and it must migrate quickly before it is combusted/exhausted) Too much ring pressure from the expanding piston scrapes all the oil off the cylinder and the conditions become favorable for a cold seizure. Even if a cold seizure does not occur, accelerated wear is happening. Do this often enough and you will shorten the lifespan of the moving parts.

This happens less to four-strokes because it only fires half as often for any given RPM and modern engines squirt oil on the bottom of the piston.(older motors still had the crank splashing oil around) All this combines to prevent the piston from expanding too rapidly. Incidentally, this is also why most four-strokes need choke for longer when cold. They just take more time to warm up because of all the idle time between ignition strokes.



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Old 02-22-2010, 02:52 PM   #112
LILBIT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wylie
I just talked to the guys father on the phone as the owner isn't around. Estimated 25 hours a year and it was bought new in 03. No real maintenance to speak of and it sounds as though the bike is very likely to be in stock form.

So I'm looking at an 03 with potentially 175 hours and likley more on the clock and very little to maybe no maintenance.

So what would be the thoughts of the more knowledgeable which I'm sure the greater percentage here are?

I know nothing of the maintenance intervals and although the budget is going to be tight I'd like to start out as fresh as I can with this bike to know where to take maintenance from the point of sale.

When I take a look at it, what should I focus on as to avoid potential issues other then the obvious such as leaks and so one? Wrap the piss out of it during the test ride?

I was just told of another KTM in the general area today as well, I'm hoping it's a 300 and maybe closer to my tight ass budget.
I think it's over priced for an '03. Don't rush it and you'll do better. Everbody rides different. I could wear out rings in 100 hours on my 300. It would still run great but gap was out of spec. Do go to KTM Talks classifieds and see what other bikes are going for.

Noisey dragging clutches are fairly typical. Drag is an easy fix but the noise is a KTM thing. 2 and 4 strokes do it so don't be alarmed if you notice it. Clutch will be hydro and not cable.
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Old 02-22-2010, 07:15 PM   #113
MeterPig
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I am super close to pulling the trigger on an 08. Unlike japanese bikes, good used KTMs' are few and far between. If they have been farkled...less so.
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Old 02-22-2010, 07:15 PM   #114
MeterPig
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That makes a lot of sense.

I am now thinking all the times I got on my KDX 220, started it, reved it within 1 minute and rolled. Full throttle at about 1 minute 20 seconds. No bueno I guess.



Quote:
Originally Posted by GR0NK
You have dissimilar metals for the piston, rings and cylinder and they are designed to fit proper at operating temperature. They have different expansion rates so you need to let the temps increase gradually. If you have a tight piston with new rings and you load the motor when cold, you risk having the piston expand faster than the cylinder can tolerate. The oil in your pre-mix is also designed to work optimally at a certain temperature, too cold and it cannot migrate fast enough to properly lubricate the cylinder walls. (imagine pouring some olive oil in a cold frying pan vs a hot one; see how it flows quickly in the hot pan? Its time in the cylinder is very limited and it must migrate quickly before it is combusted/exhausted) Too much ring pressure from the expanding piston scrapes all the oil off the cylinder and the conditions become favorable for a cold seizure. Even if a cold seizure does not occur, accelerated wear is happening. Do this often enough and you will shorten the lifespan of the moving parts.

This happens less to four-strokes because it only fires half as often for any given RPM and modern engines squirt oil on the bottom of the piston.(older motors still had the crank splashing oil around) All this combines to prevent the piston from expanding too rapidly. Incidentally, this is also why most four-strokes need choke for longer when cold. They just take more time to warm up because of all the idle time between ignition strokes.



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Old 02-22-2010, 07:45 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeterPig
Did they change the oil and filter?

oil & filter?
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Old 02-22-2010, 08:22 PM   #116
MeterPig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blakebird
oil & filter?

Air filter. Well..."clean" air filter.
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Old 02-22-2010, 08:45 PM   #117
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Long distances

To all
I have just ordered a new 300 (my second). I intend to do over night trips through the mountains on it. I have some really good 200 to 300klm loops that involve a little open dirt road but on the most tight and narrow forestry roads.
I had in the past used my 200 to do this, it was fun but wore the bike out very quickly.

I have ordered a 25 liter Acerbis tank and cush driver rear wheel to allow me to go the distance and look after the gear box as best I can.

I do understand that this is not the best use for this bike. I have a love of 2 strokes and am combining this with not seeing the new crop of 450 and 530 type engines lasting regardles of who or how they are serviced and a large cost factor to go with them.

My request is:

Can anyone who is regularly doing the longer rides put in dot point their findings or advice on higher milage ownership. I am seeking responses from people with a techincal or experinced background.


Regards
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Old 02-22-2010, 11:23 PM   #118
potatoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wylie
So I'm looking at an 03 with potentially 175 hours and likley more on the clock and very little to maybe no maintenance.
That's not a lot of hours, yet I'm sure it is possible that someone beat the crap out of it. I lucked out on my 2003 300, which had been raced (prior owner) for two seasons. I put another 12k miles on it, something like 4 piston kits, before I had the bottom end rebuilt (nothing failed, just a little rod play). Bike looks like hell, suspension suuuuucks, but the motor is great.

Then again years ago I bought a spotless 380, "barely ridden", and it turns out the bottom end is toast. Still haven't ridden it. Someday..
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Old 02-23-2010, 05:14 AM   #119
Wylie
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Thanks for all the posts (bookmarked for future reference) and I did post up over on KTM Talk.

The cement hasn't even seen the aggregate yet so I am no where near concrete = I'm not rushing anything!

I've just employed some action toward a creative financial restructuring that should work out pretty good for me.

This will take some time to do this so the bike is going to have to wait a little longer. The advantage to the waiting is I may eventually gain the magic button and farkles on the bike right out of the gate.
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Okay so I'm not Super Man. I'm just the jack of many trades, master of some yet to find and as the world turns that would only be for a matter of time.

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Old 02-24-2010, 04:11 PM   #120
MeterPig
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Local dealer says 7K OTD or a 09 300 XC-W.

Or....6K or so OTD for an 08 with 136 hours and about 1300 miles.

Which way to go?
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