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Old 09-19-2010, 01:54 PM   #61
Photog
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I bet you're not 25 yet.

I remember those years. I knew everything.

Ah, well. Some things just take some years and miles.

PS: no condescension intended...just an observation having made it this far on 2 wheels somehow.
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Photog screwed with this post 09-19-2010 at 02:09 PM
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Old 09-19-2010, 03:05 PM   #62
EvilGenius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiteyF
No, YOU still don't get it. A good rear wheel drive car can be had for just as cheap as a Civic if you look. Maybe not brand new, but there's really no reason to buy a brand new car unless you're trying to prove your affluence, or have more money than you know what to do with. And it doesn't have to be a "muscle car", just a well rounded RWD something-or-other with a trunk, and it will be just as useful as a Civic. By the time you put a few grand into a Civic to make it fast, it will now be on the same level as if you had bought a slightly faster car to begin with... but less reliable, because you put a whole bunch of shit on it that wasn't meant to be there! And then when resale time comes around, you'll never get that money back. You've got depreciation, along with all that cash you spent to make it "fast". Whereas with a stock, slightly faster car, all you have lost is the depreciation.

As for the buddy with the drag Civic... there's not a whole lot you can do to build a COMMUTER car into a RACE car. There aren't a whole lot of options for driveline parts. Probably because people know better than to waste that kind of money on a car meant for middle age middle class guys to drive to work in.

On a side note, who knows what the word "civic" means?

And as for footpegs on a Vespa... isn't that like trying to turn a Civic into a race car? No matter what you do, at the end of the day, it's still a commuter car (or in this case a scooter). You'll never turn a Vespa into a motorcycle just like you'll never turn a motorcycle into a Vespa. Or a Civic into a proper race car. Or a race car into a commuter car.
I'm trying to tie it all into that even though the civic will never be as fast as the race car, it is cheaper and more practical while with some basic mods will have more than enough power and handling for the average commute or whatever you're going to do with it. I never implied they were to be all out race cars (what good would that be on the street?), just a match for the average sports car witch wasn't hard to do until the last couple of years when suddenly the automanufacturers decided we all need 4000hp muscle cars again.

Anyways, that's where the scooters come in, particularly the 2T vespas/stellas. Sure, they'll never be as fast as a sport bike or whatever, but for the average commute that scooter riders ride, it's more than good enough with a ton more storage, weather protection and cheaper to boot. Not to mention a lot more fun. But most of the modern scoots I'd say are more like the modern sport tuner cars, there's no reason to modify them because they're already powerful enough and handle just as good.

The footpegs aren't meant to make the vespa handle any better, they're just there to help people like you who think it can't handle without proper foot pegs.

Now your little kawasaki looks it'd handle really well, but the average bike wouldn't handle as well as it does either. The scooters are the same, given riding in the circumstances the scooters are designed for (innercity) they'll out handle damn near any other bike too because of the smaller wheels, lighter frame and lower CG. And the same reason motard bikes will easily outhandle supersports on twisty mountain roads.
But they can't handle a triple digit sweeper followed by a chicane.

Of course it can't, wasn't designed for it.
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EvilGenius screwed with this post 09-19-2010 at 03:10 PM
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Old 09-19-2010, 04:21 PM   #63
Roose Hurro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiteyF
No, YOU still don't get it. A good rear wheel drive car can be had for just as cheap as a Civic if you look. Maybe not brand new, but there's really no reason to buy a brand new car unless you're trying to prove your affluence, or have more money than you know what to do with. And it doesn't have to be a "muscle car", just a well rounded RWD something-or-other with a trunk, and it will be just as useful as a Civic. By the time you put a few grand into a Civic to make it fast, it will now be on the same level as if you had bought a slightly faster car to begin with... but less reliable, because you put a whole bunch of shit on it that wasn't meant to be there! And then when resale time comes around, you'll never get that money back. You've got depreciation, along with all that cash you spent to make it "fast". Whereas with a stock, slightly faster car, all you have lost is the depreciation.

As for the buddy with the drag Civic... there's not a whole lot you can do to build a COMMUTER car into a RACE car. There aren't a whole lot of options for driveline parts. Probably because people know better than to waste that kind of money on a car meant for middle age middle class guys to drive to work in.

On a side note, who knows what the word "civic" means?

And as for footpegs on a Vespa... isn't that like trying to turn a Civic into a race car? No matter what you do, at the end of the day, it's still a commuter car (or in this case a scooter). You'll never turn a Vespa into a motorcycle just like you'll never turn a motorcycle into a Vespa. Or a Civic into a proper race car. Or a race car into a commuter car.
I beg to differ:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TshF...layer_embedded

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Old 09-19-2010, 04:52 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiteyF
...
Oh, and I was joking about the scooter... they still feel really... wrong to me. It's a footpeg thing I've already got a 2 stroke "scooter". Better mileage than most real scooters, more lean angle, and she still does 65ish... just more my cup o' tea.
Then why did you even start this thread? You got a bunch of folks who really love their scoots to tell you all the reasons we love them and then come in with the above comment. Go enjoy your ride and stop worrying your pretty little head about why we enjoy ours. Then everyone is happy.
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Old 09-19-2010, 05:25 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by lilolita
Then why did you even start this thread? You got a bunch of folks who really love their scoots to tell you all the reasons we love them and then come in with the above comment. Go enjoy your ride and stop worrying your pretty little head about why we enjoy ours. Then everyone is happy.
Werd.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt and even softened my last response...but I think now this has actually been a troll.



Lordy, I hope not. This has been a pretty mellow joint after the initial "ZOMG it's the end of ADVrider" angst of 2005.
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Old 09-19-2010, 05:35 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Photog
...but I think now this has actually been a troll.
if 'troll' is synonymous with "Whistledick."
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Old 09-19-2010, 06:14 PM   #67
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lilolita - In case you didn't notice, or didn't care to read, I STILL never said anything rude or demeaning toward the scoot crowd. I never pissed on anyone's opinions, rides or otherwise. I pointed out my concerns with scooters (I think fairly kindly) and was given good, genuine information. If you had read the thread, you'd see that while I acknowledged very valid points as to a scooter's usefulness, (and thanked everyone for the thoughtful insights) and stated that it's just not something that suits my needs. I said that to me, they feel a bit strange to ride and I don't see myself buying one in the near future. If that seems condescending to you, I really don't know what to say.

Perhaps some people need all CAPITAL letters to understand, that I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING AGAINST SCOOTERS OR THEIR RIDERS. I wanted people to explain to me why they are so popular, they did, and I was appreciative. I'm quite the asshole I suppose. Somehow the thread drifted into kitted FWD commuter cars however, which do quite annoy me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilGenius
I'm trying to tie it all into that even though the civic will never be as fast as the race car, it is cheaper and more practical while with some basic mods will have more than enough power and handling for the average commute or whatever you're going to do with it. I never implied they were to be all out race cars (what good would that be on the street?), just a match for the average sports car witch wasn't hard to do until the last couple of years when suddenly the automanufacturers decided we all need 4000hp muscle cars again.

Anyways, that's where the scooters come in, particularly the 2T vespas/stellas. Sure, they'll never be as fast as a sport bike or whatever, but for the average commute that scooter riders ride, it's more than good enough with a ton more storage, weather protection and cheaper to boot. Not to mention a lot more fun. But most of the modern scoots I'd say are more like the modern sport tuner cars, there's no reason to modify them because they're already powerful enough and handle just as good.

The footpegs aren't meant to make the vespa handle any better, they're just there to help people like you who think it can't handle without proper foot pegs.

Now your little kawasaki looks it'd handle really well, but the average bike wouldn't handle as well as it does either. The scooters are the same, given riding in the circumstances the scooters are designed for (innercity) they'll out handle damn near any other bike too because of the smaller wheels, lighter frame and lower CG. And the same reason motard bikes will easily outhandle supersports on twisty mountain roads.
But they can't handle a triple digit sweeper followed by a chicane.

Of course it can't, wasn't designed for it.
If I'm not mistaken, that's EXACTLY what I said. Commuter cars are plenty powerful and handle well enough STOCK for what they are - aka reason to modify them!

You seem quite adamant about this "it's still way cheaper than a sports car" (although I haven't seen anything to support that...?) thing, and I don't remember ever saying "buy a sports car instead of a Civic". I said don't try to make a Civic INTO a sports car, because it won't happen.

And Roose - to be fair, that car's probably about 10% Fiesta at that point. Everything from the engine to the frame, body and suspension has been sp drastically altered (or likely replaced) that it's really not fair to call it a Fiesta. That's like saying this (http://www.racingjunk.com/category/8...-Dragbike.html) is a Suzuki GS1100. It's not. It WAS, but it's not anymore.

What ever happened to scooters anyways?
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Old 09-19-2010, 06:16 PM   #68
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Oh, and redhand - you seem like a lovely person too.
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Old 09-19-2010, 07:27 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiteyF
Oh, and redhand - you seem like a lovely person too.

(EDIT: nope, nope; not gonna play, not gonna get sucked in. nope.
no matter how coy the disingenuous protestations of innocence. nope.)
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Old 09-19-2010, 09:22 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Photog
Werd.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt and even softened my last response...but I think now this has actually been a troll.



Lordy, I hope not. This has been a pretty mellow joint after the initial "ZOMG it's the end of ADVrider" angst of 2005.
Gotta admit, the bait is really stinky.

He'd wreak havoc in JM.

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Old 09-19-2010, 09:54 PM   #71
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I don't mean any offense, maybe I don't get it , but why would anyone want a liter bike? Overweight, crap for storage, no weather protection stock, performance that's never going to be put to use outside a track...why? ;)

My 2009 Buddy 125 does 60-70mph ( have it up to mid-70's real speed occasionally) at 80-90+ mpg. It's my intro into 2 wheels w/ motors, costs next to nothing to maintain, and has 17,000 miles on it in 1.5 years with no signs of slowing. Handles great: most bikes (and all HD's) have to work to keep up from lights and need that 5th gear to leave me. My xxl ff helmet fits under the seat; the glove box, front basket (soon upgrading to a rack), rear rack, and saddle bags hold more than I see myself ever needing until I go cross-country...then it'll be just right. My brother (VTX1300) envies my storage.
As far as handling, I started a video thread here. I've got a clip of route 9 from Black Mountain to Old Fort I hope to upload tomorrow. She handles just as smooth at 65 as she does at 25!
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Old 09-19-2010, 10:03 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiteyF
And Roose - to be fair, that car's probably about 10% Fiesta at that point. Everything from the engine to the frame, body and suspension has been sp drastically altered (or likely replaced) that it's really not fair to call it a Fiesta. That's like saying this (http://www.racingjunk.com/category/8...-Dragbike.html) is a Suzuki GS1100. It's not. It WAS, but it's not anymore.

What ever happened to scooters anyways?
"... there's not a whole lot you can do to build a COMMUTER car into a RACE car."

This is the part I responded to with my link, to show that it IS possible to build a commuter into a race car. Oh, and this article has details about the car's modifications:

http://media.fordvehicles.com/articl...ticle_id=33239

Besides, you have to admit, that was quite a show of driving skill.

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Old 09-20-2010, 10:09 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by EvilGenius
Gotta admit, the bait is really stinky.

He'd wreak havoc in JM.


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I will use my powers for good, not entertainment
I will use my powers for good, not entertainment
I will use my powers for good, not entertainment


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