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Old 10-06-2010, 06:16 PM   #1
btcn OP
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By starters!

I would just like to start a thread on auto by starters. Most people hate them. I now know for a fact, after screwing with my scooter and carb for so long, that my by starter has failed, just like i mentioned in my Elite 150 problem thread. I am actually ordering a Slide carb like nacree recommended, but temporally I am about to by pass my by starter on my CV carb on my Honda Elite 150. I replaced the carb with a OEM thinking that with the new by starter it would end my trouble. Wrong! That new by starter is just as bad, if not worse! So I took the whole thing apart, and I understand how it works now. That is a piece of crap! I have seen much better chinese made scooter parts! It was crappy plastic and a weak wire. The wires in the plug go to a metal surface, which was pulled halfway out of the plug, giving only minimal heat to the by starter! It does have power at the wires, as I checked it with a multi meter.

These things are designed really poorly! Honda! You guys could have come up with something much better!

So to bypass it, I am planning on using something like Epoxy gas tank putti to plug up the jet to the by starter in the float bowl. I would like some opinions on this Will it work or just make it worse?

And if anyone else has similar problems with by starters, post them here.
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Old 10-06-2010, 06:25 PM   #2
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i hate the darned things

They suck.

suck suck suck

I'm pretty sure that's what's causing trouble with my Kymco. I may just do a manual choke conversion. I'm tired of messing with it.
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Old 10-06-2010, 07:00 PM   #3
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Agreed!

Yea, a manuel choke conversion is a good idea. But it might be a bit of work. The cheap way is just clog up it's jet down in the fuel bowl with gas tank putty or something. If you take off your carb, on the venturi, [or the end of the carb where it goes into the manifold boot], there is a little tiny jet hole. This comes from the by starter. You can either clog that, or the third jet intake in the float bowl, or better yet, both. This will ensure your by starter never comes on again. The by starter is pretty useless, it is almost always on my Elite, causing me to use half a tank of gas to go to the store down town, crazy backfiring, and slow, less than rucks 49 cc acceleration. It lags to get to 35 mph.

You do not live in a area where is gets really cold, do you? I mean negative type temps. If it does, definitely go for the manuel choke or slide carb. It will be hard as hell to start if you don't have the by starter in these situations.
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Old 10-09-2010, 05:59 PM   #4
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Can't wait!

Ok, so I rode today down the backroads, and she struggled to maintain even 40-45 mph and backfiring! By starter! I had just put it back on. So I got pissed of coarse, but decided that I was going to do something about it today! Ripped it apart, pulled the carb and ripped the float bowl off. Next I went and bought some Epoxie gas tank putty, and some new float bowl screwes from the hardware store as they were just weak stock, and I mixed the epoxie and shoved a cone shaped mix into the by starter jet hole. I am now impaitaintly waiting four hours for the stuff to dry. That thing should never be able to operate again.

I will give you a ride report tonight, hopefully it will be good! Now what to do with that extra 12 volts to the bystarter? Maybe an Ipod charger or radio, Neon lights under the floor board for night! Something cool!
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Old 10-09-2010, 10:52 PM   #5
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Pissed Shit!

Ok, so I put it all back together and took it for a ride. There is a little good but mostly bad. The good: It will do 52 mph without stalling and backfiring. The BAD: Its SLOW! Just damn gutless. It overheated so hot that the temp gage indicated the red in the H mark! What the hell?? It will not go over 52 mph due to lack of power.

Does anyone know what could possible cause this? I am also hearing a loud sucking noise when I run it. Like a shhh shhh shhh noise. Maybe that little hole for the by starter is sucking air into the engine? Who knows. Does anyone have any possible suggestions? I used the epoxy gas tank repair putty to clog the jet that goes to the by starter.
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Old 10-10-2010, 12:16 AM   #6
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Question

Alright, so I think I figured out the majority if the problem. The damn by starter has it's own air intakes! Two of them. I pulled the air filter and it's tube, and I put my fingers over both holes while it idled. When I did this, the idle speed increased and I could feel it had more power. The idle speed was always high when it was running right. So I now put epoxy putty in both holes, and I really hope this does the trick. If not, I'm screwed! For now, until I get the new slide carburetor. Maybe it was running Lean, as that by starter jet hole in the end piece of the carb was shooting air directly into the engine, causing a very lean mixture which would explain the lack of power and extreme overheating.

But I STILL have not figured out the air noise. That loud sshhhh shhhhh shhhh is driving me crazy. It almost seems as if it is not coming from the carburetor. I think it is, but I have no idea. It is wired though, I thought it was the by starter air intake attempting to suck in air, but I guess not? Any ideas on what I should do next?
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Old 10-10-2010, 05:32 AM   #7
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Why not just buy a new by starter and be done with? You hate them that s cool but like most stuff they only go bad every once in a blue moon.
13:
HEATER

587997
(222705-001)

$22.04
http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmot...-elite/o/m2080

I think they are calling the bystarter a heater here. 22.04. oem honda part.
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Old 10-10-2010, 09:33 AM   #8
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I think the by starter in my new carb was screwed up since I got it. I really screwed up the new carb, so I might just go with my old carb for now. I might try a new by starter. Has anyone successfully blocked one? I tried to block all of its tubes and it is so messed up. I am going to pop my old one back on, and think about what to do from their.
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Old 10-10-2010, 08:47 PM   #9
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Alright, I put the old carburetor back in tonight. I also tested my old by starter by connecting it to 12 volts to see if it pushes the needle out. I put it on a piece of paper, and drew the size of the needle and also measured it at 13/16th of and inch. I let it sit heating for about 5 minutes, and the needle actually came down! It was about 1 and 1/16th inches! My new by starter from my new carb was broken into pieces ever since I got the carb! I discovered this when I took the plastic part apart. Is that the right length for it to come out?


The test ride was the best in the last two days. It will hold 52 mph, but thats it. No more. Damn! Acceleration is pretty poor, about like a Elite 125. It is OK, but it is not running right. It only backfiring during deceleration, but thats it.
ANY SUGGESTIONS?
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Old 10-11-2010, 01:40 AM   #10
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without put down any of the great people here ,the guys whom know it all about honda elite scooters are on the honda elite yahoo scooter groups. All you have to do is have an yahoo email account and then search for honda elite scooter yahoo groups. I don't know more then what's in the book. if you don't have an oem honda elite 150 manual, then search for honda elite 150 manual .pdf . All most any motorcycle manual can be found that way. that the way I would go. Even joining up with the elite ch250 yahoo group is a good start. some of those guys are amazing in what they know. Most have rebuild there rides from the ground up. As I said there are great people on adv but some info can't be found here at times. I just spent 3 on google and here one guys info.
Aero 125, Elite 80/125/150/250, Helix bystarter (choke)
These models use an electric "choke". It's not a standard choke, in the sense that it doesn't choke off the flow of air (and make the fuel/air ratio richer). It is a device that shuts off the flow of air to the starting circuit as the scooter warms up. The bystarter is a small, black cylindrical device with two wires coming out of it. When the engine is running, 12V are applied to these wires. Over about 10 minutes or so, the bystarter warms up as the enging warms up. There is some wax in the bystarter (believe it or not) that is heated by a small heater. It expands, and extends the bystarter needle about 1/8". This is enough to close off the starting circuit.

After a number of years, the device builds up electrical resistance and it doesn't do its job any more. A new bystarter has a resistance of about 4 ohms. When resistance builds to over 10 ohms, it should be replaced.

To check for proper bystarter function, There is a complex test in the service manual that can be performed, but there is a simple test that works almost as well. Remove the bystarter and examine it. Are the wires in good shape? Is the needle in good shape? Nothing looks broken? Hook up a 12V source to the two wires. After about 10 mintues, the bystarter should become warm, and extend the needle 1/8" or so. Measure it with a pair of verneer calipers or whatever you have handy. If it extends properly it's probably ok. The only sure way to tell if it is bad is to do the full test as described in the service manual. This involves removing the carb and leaving the bystarter attached. Draw a vacuum in the starting circuit outlet. There should be little resistance when the bystarer is cold and plenty of resistance when the bystarter has been heated up. A bad bystarter will either not expand properly or not contract properly. Finding replacements can be difficult. The Elite 125 & 150 bystarters can be replaced with one from a '87 Elite 150. Honda still seems to be making these. The cost is around $65. Replacements for the Elite 250 bystarter can be obtained by ordering a Honda Helix part (they essentially share the same engine). The Elite 80, 125/150 and Elite 250 bystarters are not interchangeable, because they are different lengths.

Type bystarter length*, cold bystarter length*, hot
CH80 2.727" 2.902"
CH125/CH150 3.285" 3.442"
CH250/Helix 3.480" 3.652"
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Old 10-11-2010, 03:47 PM   #11
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Thanks fullmetalscooter. That is some good information. That site says by starter length either hot or cold should be over 3 inches? Well that could very well be my problem, as my by starter is only 1 inch hot, and 13/16th inches cold! maybe it is not long enough to go into the hole? And my new by starter is broken, ever since I got it. Maybe a new by starter is a good idea, I might just try and get a new one and get a flat slide carb.
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