ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Gear > Equipment
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-02-2011, 08:32 AM   #76
Nesbocaj
Politicians suck
 
Nesbocaj's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Westchester NY
Oddometer: 818
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Smallberries View Post
Your RT installation looks very clean and simple. Definitely not having the two relays and Autoswitch would be cleaner.

I need to get the black cloth tape as well as it sure hides the wiring well.

Thanks for the photo
Pardon me for not saying "effin' great schematic"!

I got a roll of the black tape as a sample, I am thinking of buying a case. It is the same tape that BMW uses; Certoplast.
__________________
2014 BMW R1200GS-W


Nesbocaj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2011, 12:47 PM   #77
RocketMoto
2 Many Motersikles
 
RocketMoto's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: New Haamsha, USA
Oddometer: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Smallberries View Post
Your RT installation looks very clean and simple. Definitely not having the two relays and Autoswitch would be cleaner.

I need to get the black cloth tape as well as it sure hides the wiring well.

Thanks for the photo
Nice job! - and a coupla suggestions.

First - cloth tape - get a roll of Hockey Stick Tape from the local sporting goods store. Nearly identical in appearance to the BMW harness tape, available in several widths and at a very non-BMW price.

On a GS (or any other bike, when possible), we prefer not to run the wiring over the frame and under the seat, to minimize the possibility of wires being abraded or pinched over time. It's tight, but there's enough room to snake the wiring behind/under the frame, then cut a notch in both front corners of the tool tray with a razor knife, and bring the wiring up from inside the tray, thru a hole in the Lexan plate you made. We'd probably put a grommet on the Lexan plate, a well to run the wires through.

We prefer to use braided loom, rather than the corrugated plastic stuff. It's a lot easier to work with, is more flexible and very durable.

Doing wiring the right way, takes a long time, as you've found. I am not surprised that you spent as much time as you did.
__________________
=Adam=
Like us on Facebook -- Follow us on Twitter
PM us for your *personal* ADVRider discount code to use at RocketMoto.com
Autocom | TPX Radar/Laser | Sena Bluetooth
| Hi-Power LED Lights
Shorai Battery | Techmount | Powerlet | Rowe PDM60 | Skene Design


RocketMoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2011, 12:48 PM   #78
John Smallberries OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
John Smallberries's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Northville, Michigan
Oddometer: 1,226
LEDs always on?

Is it normal for the LEDs to be on all the time, even with the ignition off? If so, what is the current draw?

I cleaned up my install by shortening some more leads and using black cloth friction tape from Home Depot. It definitely looks better.

I was not able to run my heated gear of the switched circuit. The LED turned red immediately. I thought I would have enough current to run jacket, pants, gloves and socks, but it turned red with the jacket alone.

I connected them straight to the battery though my tender lead, which is probably cleaner anyway. I took a ride at my 19F this morning to check out my new Krista lights. Full heat is wonderful.

I'm thinking I have something not quite right here. Everything else works fine.
__________________
'05 BMW 1200GS
'09 Honda CRF230
'10 Yamaha TW200
John Smallberries is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-02-2011, 02:35 PM   #79
John Smallberries OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
John Smallberries's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Northville, Michigan
Oddometer: 1,226
Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketMoto View Post
Nice job! - and a coupla suggestions.

...

On a GS (or any other bike, when possible), we prefer not to run the wiring over the frame and under the seat, to minimize the possibility of wires being abraded or pinched over time. It's tight, but there's enough room to snake the wiring behind/under the frame, then cut a notch in both front corners of the tool tray with a razor knife, and bring the wiring up from inside the tray, thru a hole in the Lexan plate you made. We'd probably put a grommet on the Lexan plate, a well to run the wires through.

We prefer to use braided loom, rather than the corrugated plastic stuff. It's a lot easier to work with, is more flexible and very durable.

Doing wiring the right way, takes a long time, as you've found. I am not surprised that you spent as much time as you did.
Thanks for the great suggestions. I wish I'd found that braided stuff before putting the bike back together!

I also like the idea of running the wires under the frame and into slots in the housing. Much cleaner.
__________________
'05 BMW 1200GS
'09 Honda CRF230
'10 Yamaha TW200
John Smallberries is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2011, 11:06 PM   #80
RocketMoto
2 Many Motersikles
 
RocketMoto's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: New Haamsha, USA
Oddometer: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Smallberries View Post
Is it normal for the LEDs to be on all the time, even with the ignition off? If so, what is the current draw?

I cleaned up my install by shortening some more leads and using black cloth friction tape from Home Depot. It definitely looks better.

I was not able to run my heated gear of the switched circuit. The LED turned red immediately. I thought I would have enough current to run jacket, pants, gloves and socks, but it turned red with the jacket alone.

{snip}

I'm thinking I have something not quite right here. Everything else works fine.
Noooo, the LED's aren't supposed to stay on with the ignition off, and the way you wired things will present you with a dead battery in pretty short order.

Looking at your wiring diagram, you have connected your ignition switched items to the BULLSHIT CANBUS BMW ACCESSORY PLUG, that is good to power a GPS, and not much of anything else.

The problem with that overly complex Canbus socket nightmare of a German-excuse-to-sell-you-a-$200-battery-charger is that it is 'load dependent'. The POS battery charger's 'sposta work like this... Plug in charger, turn on ignition. Absurd Canbus recognizes said charger. Turn off ignition. Charger continues to power the accessory circuit and anything connected to that bus. Brilliant, huh? Well, not so much. The Canbus *thinks* that the goodies you have connected to the accessory socket is that stinkin' charger, so the accessory socket is staying powered even after you turn off the ignition.

Now - get this... Wired as you have, sometimes you may find the Canbus socket will stay powered with ignition off (and the Krista's will stay on) and sometimes not. Some bikes will exhibit the issue all the time and some (even the same model) not at all. I guess this is part that character that is so lacking in Japanese bikes.

My suggestion is to use a Posi-tap and connect all that switched ignition stuff, instead, to the green/blue wire at the diagnostic connector under the seat. That wire is non-Canbus ignition switched power. Problem solved.

When we get BMW's in the shop here, we install *real Powerlet sockets* in place of that impostor socket. Plus this lets our customers use the battery tender of their choosing.

Lastly - all of that heated gear, I will estimate is drawing in the neighborhood of 12-16 amps, depending on how high you have the controller set. You could measure it with an ammeter to be sure. I haven't played around with the PDM-60 yet, but it could be that even on the 15Amp circuit, it may not be happy with the pulse-width modulated temperature controller, even with just the jacket liner only. I'd have to get one to sort things out.
__________________
=Adam=
Like us on Facebook -- Follow us on Twitter
PM us for your *personal* ADVRider discount code to use at RocketMoto.com
Autocom | TPX Radar/Laser | Sena Bluetooth
| Hi-Power LED Lights
Shorai Battery | Techmount | Powerlet | Rowe PDM60 | Skene Design



RocketMoto screwed with this post 01-03-2011 at 11:12 PM
RocketMoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2011, 02:38 AM   #81
John Smallberries OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
John Smallberries's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Northville, Michigan
Oddometer: 1,226
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketMoto View Post
My suggestion is to use a Posi-tap and connect all that switched ignition stuff, instead, to the green/blue wire at the diagnostic connector under the seat. That wire is non-Canbus ignition switched power. Problem solved.
Thanks. I agree it was a mistake to use the time-delayed-shutdown BMW GPS power to operate a time-delayed-shutdown PDM60. I'm sure "Thou shalt not use multiple time delays" is carved in a stone tablet somewhere.

I'll switch to the green/blue diagnostic plug wire this weekend (after the Motorcycle Show!) during my "Phase 3 wire cleanup" job.
__________________
'05 BMW 1200GS
'09 Honda CRF230
'10 Yamaha TW200
John Smallberries is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2011, 02:52 AM   #82
John Smallberries OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
John Smallberries's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Northville, Michigan
Oddometer: 1,226
Heated gear alternative

Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketMoto View Post
N
Lastly - all of that heated gear, I will estimate is drawing in the neighborhood of 12-16 amps, depending on how high you have the controller set. You could measure it with an ammeter to be sure. I haven't played around with the PDM-60 yet, but it could be that even on the 15Amp circuit, it may not be happy with the pulse-width modulated temperature controller, even with just the jacket liner only. I'd have to get one to sort things out.
I think you are right about the interaction between the PWM-modulated heated gear and the PDM60. I found a cleaner solution anyway. I made a short jumper with an SAE plug on one end and the Warm-N-Safe cylindrical female plug on the other. I have another jumper with an SAE plug on one side, directly wired to the battery to connect my tender. When I need heat, I install the jumper (strategically tie strapped to the bike) and plug the gear to a direct (but fused) battery connection. No PDM involved and I avoid a fourth connection on the battery terminals.
__________________
'05 BMW 1200GS
'09 Honda CRF230
'10 Yamaha TW200
John Smallberries is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2011, 07:45 AM   #83
Arby60
Bluegrass Rider
 
Arby60's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Location: Bluegrass Country
Oddometer: 216
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketMoto View Post
Nice job! - and a coupla suggestions.

First - cloth tape - get a roll of Hockey Stick Tape from the local sporting goods store. Nearly identical in appearance to the BMW harness tape, available in several widths and at a very non-BMW price.

On a GS (or any other bike, when possible), we prefer not to run the wiring over the frame and under the seat, to minimize the possibility of wires being abraded or pinched over time. It's tight, but there's enough room to snake the wiring behind/under the frame, then cut a notch in both front corners of the tool tray with a razor knife, and bring the wiring up from inside the tray, thru a hole in the Lexan plate you made. We'd probably put a grommet on the Lexan plate, a well to run the wires through.

We prefer to use braided loom, rather than the corrugated plastic stuff. It's a lot easier to work with, is more flexible and very durable.

Doing wiring the right way, takes a long time, as you've found. I am not surprised that you spent as much time as you did.
Thanks for the braided loom link. There are several types shown on that site. Which do you recommend? Also, would the braided loom be used in place of or in addition to the hockey stick tape?
__________________
2007 K1200LT/Hannigan - Blue
2012 R1200GS Rallye
1973 R75/5 Toaster - Black
Arby60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2011, 04:42 PM   #84
Nesbocaj
Politicians suck
 
Nesbocaj's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Westchester NY
Oddometer: 818
I am running Gerbings jacket and gloves off of one of the 15amp lines, it works fine. If you wanted to you could use one of the 5amp lines to
throw a relay and wire the heated gear directly to the battery giving you ignition controlled (off and on) heated gear, but I thought the idea was
to do away with the relays and fuses if possible.

Time for the guy that built the product to step in........................


EDIT to add: I also have a set of driving lights on the PDM as well. Completely forgot about them.
__________________
2014 BMW R1200GS-W



Nesbocaj screwed with this post 01-08-2011 at 05:42 PM
Nesbocaj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 02:18 PM   #85
John Smallberries OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
John Smallberries's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Northville, Michigan
Oddometer: 1,226
Final version!

I took the advice offerred here and did some more cleanup work on my install. The guys at Rowe Electronics were great for questions. The whole setup now works great: PDM60 - Autoswitch - Clearwater Krista LED aux lights - heated gear.



I got an education in all the wrong ways to work with crimp connectors. In the end I did everything with Posi-Lok products and soldered crimps. I know the crimp joints should work without the soldering, but I just couldn't make myself confident.

I like the suggestion to run the wires under the frame, rather than over. Now the stock BMW wire bundle that runs over top looks out of place!

I also added an external switch (left over from the Krista install kit) for the non-ignition controlled circuit on the PDM-60. At this time, I don't have anything connected to it. I think I may wire in my micro-USB power supply to recharge my Cardo Scala G4 unit. I haven't been that far from 110V power so far, so it isn't a priority. Here is a photo of the charger I made by canibalizing a small cigarette lighter USB charger:



PowerLet makes a "proper" micro-USB direct-battery connector, but it costs $45. I had this stuff lying around.

It would look neater (no wires to see) if I used a black plastic mounting panel instead of the lexan. But, again, I had it lying around...

I still want to see some other installs.


Thanks for all the advice!
__________________
'05 BMW 1200GS
'09 Honda CRF230
'10 Yamaha TW200
John Smallberries is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 02:32 PM   #86
Yellow Pig
Allergic to Asphalt!
 
Yellow Pig's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Thousand Oaks, Ca.
Oddometer: 6,875
Isn't the purpose of the PDM to get rid of extra relays?????????????
__________________
So Many Idiots, So Few Comets!!!!!!!!!
Yellow Pig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2011, 05:45 PM   #87
Nesbocaj
Politicians suck
 
Nesbocaj's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: Westchester NY
Oddometer: 818
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Smallberries View Post
I took the advice offerred here and did some more cleanup work on my install. The guys at Rowe Electronics were great for questions. The whole setup now works great: PDM60 - Autoswitch - Clearwater Krista LED aux lights - heated gear.
Hey Craig, that turned out great!
__________________
2014 BMW R1200GS-W


Nesbocaj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2011, 08:44 AM   #88
John Smallberries OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
John Smallberries's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Northville, Michigan
Oddometer: 1,226
Relays

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yellow Pig View Post
Isn't the purpose of the PDM to get rid of extra relays?????????????
The PDM60 isn't the driver for the relays. It's main benefit is eliminating fuses, not relays. It has its own internal switching for the power circuits tied either to ignition or an external switch. I needed two relays for different reasons: Canbus and Autoswitch.

My Stebel horn pulls much more current than the stock BMW horn. I had been warned that just directly connecting the stock power feed (switched by the horn button) would not provide enough current and result in a Canbus fault. So, I tied the horn button to a relay and fed the Stebel current from the PDM60 through that. One of you may tell me that the horn will work fine straight off the Canbus, but I wanted one less thing to worry about!

The second relay was for the Autoswitch to eliminate the need to add a separate switch on the bars for the Krista lights. The turn-signal cancel button trips the Autoswitch, which trips the relay, which sends PDM60 power to the Krista module. The Autoswitch output is a 12v signal and the Krista module is looking for a switch closure: the relay bridges that gap.

(PS - I thought I posted this earlier today - but I seem to have killed it somehow!)
__________________
'05 BMW 1200GS
'09 Honda CRF230
'10 Yamaha TW200
John Smallberries is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2011, 12:09 AM   #89
katego
Studly Adventurer
 
katego's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Location: rat city, pnw
Oddometer: 556
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Smallberries View Post
The second relay was for the Autoswitch to eliminate the need to add a separate switch on the bars for the Krista lights. The turn-signal cancel button trips the Autoswitch, which trips the relay, which sends PDM60 power to the Krista module. The Autoswitch output is a 12v signal and the Krista module is looking for a switch closure: the relay bridges that gap.
I'm in the middle of a very similar project on a R1150GS. Is the need for a 2nd relay a requirement with the PDM60? Doesn't the Krista harness have a relay built in? (my kit includes eastern beaver PC8, Autoswitch, and krista lights)

-k
__________________
Squaring off tires and tipping over bikes since 2005.
katego is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2011, 03:48 AM   #90
John Smallberries OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
John Smallberries's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Northville, Michigan
Oddometer: 1,226
2nd relay

Quote:
Originally Posted by katego View Post
I'm in the middle of a very similar project on a R1150GS. Is the need for a 2nd relay a requirement with the PDM60? Doesn't the Krista harness have a relay built in? (my kit includes eastern beaver PC8, Autoswitch, and krista lights)

-k
My install included 2 relays, but they have nothing to do with the PDM60. The Kristas do have some sort of internal relay that clicks on when the two external switch (red) wires are connected via an external switch. The PDM60 simply provides fused power (although the Krista module power lead comes with it's own fuse - that I didn't use.)

I used a relay on the Kristas to enable the Autoswitch. The Autoswitch creates a 12v signal when the turn signal cancel button is pushed. I routed that signal to a relay which replaces the external switch for the Kristas. I mis-spoke in my earlier post as the relay does not provide POWER to the Kristas, but replaces the external switch. Power comes directly through the PDM60 from one of the ignition-switched circuits.

There may be another way to skin this cat without the relay. As I read the schematic, the Krista module needs both an ignition-triggered 12v input AND the external switch closure to fire the lights. I now wonder if we could just permanently joined the external switch wires and routed the Autoswitch output to the Krista ignition wire. The Autoswitch has a separate ground lead for the 12v output that is intended to go to the low side of the relay coil. I wonder if that were connected straight to ground only, if it would work.

You could contact the Krista people to see if that would work. I know the relay method works fine and I have no intentions to rewire.

Also, if the GS stock horn circuit can flow enough juice for the Stebel without a CanBus error, I wouldn't need the other relay either. Someone could give that a try and let us know if it works.
__________________
'05 BMW 1200GS
'09 Honda CRF230
'10 Yamaha TW200
John Smallberries is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 11:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014