What is Harley doing?

[dwoodward]

Originally Posted by DAKEZ

I like the way you think dwoodward.

All it would need then is a topbox, and I figure I can do that myself.

[DAKEZ]

.......................................





'

[Tripped1]

Originally Posted by ChainSaw

Under 'Specs and Pricing" on HD site, the XR1200 shows 73.91 ft pounds of torque @ 4000 rpm, which puts it at 56.29 HP. The 1200 Low and 1200 Nightster show higher HP than the XR.



Thanks!
Mine has a 3.3 gallon tank, and I've seen above 60mpg running up the east coast on the Blue Ridge Parkway, mostly high 50's on the slab. The absolute worst I've seen in 80,000 miles has been 39mpg, in a headwind thru NM being really heavy handed on the throttle.

On a 1200 or 883. Like I said the only Evo sportster I have any real experience with was the EX's 2003 883. For reference we lived in New Mexico and were all over the place. I never saw that bike get over 40mpg...it got worse mileage than my Speed Triple, and carried half the gas.


Maybe a combination of her heavy throttle hand (very heavy, she damn near looped my Triple when I let her ride it) and the altitude the valleys where I was were 4,400 MSL and you were usually north of 6,000 anywhere you went to ride. There were a LOT of places she didn't go on that Sportster simply because it didn't have the range.

[switchback]

Just a few observations. Many of us here may look like Harley haters but the fact is we just do not understand the bikes or the lifestyle. I surely do not but I don't think less of anyone who does like my best friend of the past 30 years.

I have rode my friends Sportster and I thought it was the worst handling crowbar ever made. Even my friend had sense enough to trade it on a Dynaglide (or something like that).

I do have to say that despite the technology gap Harleys seem to have better reliability records than the BMWs of late. Guess it is the difference between cutting edge and old-school known quantities.

I also know that this Harley ridden by the Forwood's has rode through every country in the world and the first bike to do so. Note the countries written on the top box.


My real problem is for the past 20 years EVERY Japanese manufacturer has tried to build a Harley. Furthermore they spent the last 20 years telling us in the USA that we are only interested in cruisers or sportbikes and would not import anything else. That is the reason I am a Cruiser hater.

[NJ-Brett]

My 2009 fuel injected 1200 gets around 50 mpg and has a 4.5 gallon tank.
Its stock except I put some extra holes in the silencers..

Was 2003 fuel injected?
If it had a carb, it likely needed a rejet for altitude.
The FI stuff is supposed to correct itself.

Originally Posted by Tripped1

On a 1200 or 883. Like I said the only Evo sportster I have any real experience with was the EX's 2003 883. For reference we lived in New Mexico and were all over the place. I never saw that bike get over 40mpg...it got worse mileage than my Speed Triple, and carried half the gas.


Maybe a combination of her heavy throttle hand (very heavy, she damn near looped my Triple when I let her ride it) and the altitude the valleys where I was were 4,400 MSL and you were usually north of 6,000 anywhere you went to ride. There were a LOT of places she didn't go on that Sportster simply because it didn't have the range.

[Tripped1]

Originally Posted by NJ-Brett

My 2009 fuel injected 1200 gets around 50 mpg and has a 4.5 gallon tank.
Its stock except I put some extra holes in the silencers..

Was 2003 fuel injected?
If it had a carb, it likely needed a rejet for altitude.
The FI stuff is supposed to correct itself.

It was carbed and it was also rejetted (before I met her I didn't do it)

[Kamloopsrider]

Originally Posted by Waco Kid

The Road King is a great bike in the heavy weight tourer category. Harley builds a lot of good bikes, but they are missing some important categories in their product line. They have to start pulling in more of the younger riders.

I disagree. Harley sells big slow comfortable cruisers with plenty of torque to haul fat old bastards like me around. They sell thousands of bikes this way.
Young riders switch from sportbikes to dirt bikes to naked bikes to dual sports and back and forth depending on their wants and needs.
Old farts, like me, break too easy and take too long to heal, so a Harley is just what I need.
I would be suspicious of a young person riding a Harley. Young people should be flogging the crap out of something light and powerful.......
and staying the hell off my lawn!

[Meriden]

Originally Posted by Kamloopsrider

I disagree. Harley sells big slow comfortable cruisers with plenty of torque to haul fat old bastards like me around. They sell thousands of bikes this way.
Young riders switch from sportbikes to dirt bikes to naked bikes to dual sports and back and forth depending on their wants and needs.
Old farts, like me, break too easy and take too long to heal, so a Harley is just what I need.
I would be suspicious of a young person riding a Harley. Young people should be flogging the crap out of something light and powerful.......
and staying the hell off my lawn!

Spot on. The boomers are riding HD and HD has been riding the boomers for years. Most of the guys on these bikes are not looking for anything other than moderate power for the pavement and the ability to run 80 all day long on the interstate. As the boomers age, so will HD's demographics. When boomers stop riding, HD's demographics will start getting younger. Guys who wouldn't touch one at 30 will be happy to ride one at 50. Sure HD is going to have to change for the next generations, but not much.

Honda sold something like 18 million bikes world wide in 2010. BMW 98,000 (a 12% increase this year.) HD was happy taking a 5% loss at 212,000 and those numbers will turn around as the economy improves. They may have done the right thing pulling the plug on Buell and sticking to their business model. Their market is not India or Indonesia and the HD powerplant is never going to push a competitive sport bike.

[fastblast]

i guess there's a reason they call it the harley owners group and not the harley riders group!

[xymotic]

Originally Posted by Meriden

Spot on. The boomers are riding HD and HD has been riding the boomers for years. Most of the guys on these bikes are not looking for anything other than moderate power for the pavement and the ability to run 80 all day long on the interstate. As the boomers age, so will HD's demographics. When boomers stop riding, HD's demographics will start getting younger. Guys who wouldn't touch one at 30 will be happy to ride one at 50. Sure HD is going to have to change for the next generations, but not much.

Honda sold something like 18 million bikes world wide in 2010. BMW 98,000 (a 12% increase this year.) HD was happy taking a 5% loss at 212,000 and those numbers will turn around as the economy improves. They may have done the right thing pulling the plug on Buell and sticking to their business model. Their market is not India or Indonesia and the HD powerplant is never going to push a competitive sport bike.

Which is kinda the whole point. They sold a few thousand bikes to an American market of 50 million boomers. Those boomers are literally dying out.

Their market is shrinking, and other markets like Europe, China and India are expanding. If HD is to survive as 'the' brand they need to take some steps to preserve the brand. People will buy HD now for prestige or exclusivity or whatever, but the co is squandering the advantage they currently enjoy.

Everyone is targeting HD, and HD is sitting their saying 'we're the best' but doing little or nothing to prove it. Chevy wasn't really afraid of the civic in 75... were they?

[btcn]

Originally Posted by DAKEZ

Yes, Sportsters are rated at about 53 hp+/- and those Burgman things are heavy pigs tipping the scales around 35 lbs more than a Sporty.

I have always liked the Sportster. I would recommend that you also try out a Triumph Speed Triple.... You know, just to compare the two.

Hmm, maybe I'll check it out just for the hell of it! But the Speed Triple looks pretty sporty. I don't know a lot about triumphs, but by the looks I don't know how comfortable it would be for cross country riding.

The Sportster may handle like shit, and be slow for it's displacement, but it makes up for that with nice abilitys on the highway.

Harleys do what they were meant to do. Cruise. Does cruising include racing on twisty roads? Does it include going WOT throttle down the expressway? I don't think so. Thats the whole point in Harleys, the lifestyle, the feel and cruising.

Teaksmith thanks, I'll check out the forums/threads on the XL.


And what is with the Honda and the other Japanese V-Twin cruisers these days? I have no idea where their going with that!

You know, the Road Star costs JUST a bit over $1000 more than the Harley Road King.

I guess they are good bikes, but why not have a real Harley Davidson that cruises like a dream, along with the lifestyle for just a few dollars more? They need to take those prices down IMHO.

[Tripped1]

Originally Posted by Waco Kid

Years ago, I read an article in Motorcyclist where they took a Sportster and set it up for road racing. They had a obvious HP disadvantage, but they claimed the cornering ability and lean angle was actually pretty good and surprised a lot of sport bike riders in the corners.

Against interceptors and hurricanes maybe....those days are LONG over.

Todays 600s are 200lbs lighter more than double the horsepower and have about 12" less wheelbase, in addition to double the rubber on the road.

A Sportster WILL turn but that is all you can say for it.

[Kamloopsrider]

Originally Posted by xymotic

Which is kinda the whole point. They sold a few thousand bikes to an American market of 50 million boomers. Those boomers are literally dying out.

Their market is shrinking, and other markets like Europe, China and India are expanding. If HD is to survive as 'the' brand they need to take some steps to preserve the brand. People will buy HD now for prestige or exclusivity or whatever, but the co is squandering the advantage they currently enjoy.

Everyone is targeting HD, and HD is sitting their saying 'we're the best' but doing little or nothing to prove it. Chevy wasn't really afraid of the civic in 75... were they?

I think the point is that Harley will never compete with Honda and others in Asia and they would be foolish to try. Their business model is to be the biggest in North America.
The steps they took to preserve the brand was to kick the shit out of the unions and hold the cities they operate in hostage. Tax breaks and lower wages, lowering the cost of production. A time honoured tactic of the corporate culture. Fewer units sold but higher margins per unit.
As for the boomers dying out, you are right, but we had kids and those kids saw the old man and his buddies riding Harleys. So when they get old they will probably ride Harleys too.
We aren't running out of old people we're keeping them around longer.
So stay off my damn lawn.

[xymotic]

Originally Posted by Kamloopsrider

I think the point is that Harley will never compete with Honda and others in Asia and they would be foolish to try. Their business model is to be the biggest in North America.
The steps they took to preserve the brand was to kick the shit out of the unions and hold the cities they operate in hostage. Tax breaks and lower wages, lowering the cost of production. A time honoured tactic of the corporate culture. Fewer units sold but higher margins per unit.
As for the boomers dying out, you are right, but we had kids and those kids saw the old man and his buddies riding Harleys. So when they get old they will probably ride Harleys too.
We aren't running out of old people we're keeping them around longer.
So stay off my damn lawn.

I get that if dad had a porsche, 40 years later the kids buy a porsche... but not the exact same Porsche (for 200% the cost)

[Tuna Helper]

Originally Posted by ChainSaw

Under 'Specs and Pricing" on HD site, the XR1200 shows 73.91 ft pounds of torque @ 4000 rpm, which puts it at 56.29 HP. The 1200 Low and 1200 Nightster show higher HP than the XR.

That's how much hp you have at 4000 rpm.

http://www.motorcycle.com/manufactur...iew-80682.html

http://www.hdforums.com/articles/200...ster-1200.html

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/113/19...irst-Ride.aspx

All state a claimed 90 hp

http://www.xr1200ownersgroup.com/sit...-HP-and-Torque

States 78 hp, probably at the wheel