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Old 02-01-2011, 06:37 PM   #16
Uncle Ernie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camgregus View Post
I've always thought that the frame and hack and 70s airhead running gear ca. /7 should make a fun bike. Comments? Experience?


http://www.changjiangunlimited.com/Frank.htm
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:04 AM   #17
timdog
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This guy has been posting this one for at least a year. Every week or so. Once, about 6 months ago, he lowered the price from $16000 to $15999.

http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/mcy/2180341842.html
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:23 AM   #18
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When I worked at a BMW Shop (location secret) several excited H20 heads brought one of the Chinese "BMW"s in with the story they were found in a cave, NOS, amazingly rare, yadda yadda yadda.

I looked close for about 30 seconds and just started laughing. Whew. Bad welds, henky electrical wiring, questionable metallurgy.

The grinning geniuses who brought it in wanted to trade even for a K1100RS.

Thats when I started hysterically laughing.

They loaded it up and disappeared, never to be seen again.

In retrospect, if you throw enough money at anything, you can make it run. I would rather throw my money at something a little more "there".
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:24 AM   #19
wirewrkr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwloco View Post
When I worked at a BMW Shop (location secret) several excited H20 heads brought one of the Chinese "BMW"s in with the story they were found in a cave, NOS, amazingly rare, yadda yadda yadda.

I looked close for about 30 seconds and just started laughing. Whew. Bad welds, henky electrical wiring, questionable metallurgy.

The grinning geniuses who brought it in wanted to trade even for a K1100RS.

Thats when I started hysterically laughing.

They loaded it up and disappeared, never to be seen again.

In retrospect, if you throw enough money at anything, you can make it run. I would rather throw my money at something a little more "there".
Funny thing about that story. The same basic thing happened at a dealer I worked for back in 96 0r 97.
Since we pretty much specialized in Vintage BMW, we had a good laugh when we wandered out to the trailer it was on to have a look. My impressions were the same as yours as far as the welds, wiring, metallurgy etc.
The owner had been told that he could buy any and all parts for it "at any BMW dealer that knows old bikes"
He was greatly saddened and perplexed to learn that we did in fact have a N.O.S. set of points in stock and a N.O.S. distributor cap, but the cost would be several hundred $$$.
I still wouldn't mind having one if it came to me dirt cheap. They have a cool factor to them. But I would never hang the BMW badges on them. That is just so wrong in so many ways.
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wirewrkr screwed with this post 02-02-2011 at 10:35 AM
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Old 02-02-2011, 10:06 AM   #20
chiefrider
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Originally Posted by Cordless View Post
Thank you for all this input. I knew ADVrider had some wisdom on these bikes.

I would be tempted to buy one for the retro look, but I will certainly not pay much.

Is it true that regular BMW engine parts will interchange with the Chinese parts on these bikes?
When it comes to engine-clutch-transmission-driveline-wheels, I don't believe there's any interchangability here amongst the Russian & Chinese knockoffs. When I had that Dnepr, I found there was no significant interchangability between it and a Ural. You can, with some modifications to the engine mounts, put a BMW motor or motor/transmission unit into these frames, but when you have to deal with that questionable rear drive, crappy hubs and cheeze-whiz spokes, plus the wonky handling. IMHO, best keeo the BMW mill in the BMW frame.

Tom in Salem
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Old 02-02-2011, 11:01 AM   #21
Cordless OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefrider View Post
When it comes to engine-clutch-transmission-driveline-wheels, I don't believe there's any interchangability here amongst the Russian & Chinese knockoffs. When I had that Dnepr, I found there was no significant interchangability between it and a Ural. You can, with some modifications to the engine mounts, put a BMW motor or motor/transmission unit into these frames, but when you have to deal with that questionable rear drive, crappy hubs and cheeze-whiz spokes, plus the wonky handling. IMHO, best keeo the BMW mill in the BMW frame.

Tom in Salem
Tom,

This seems to be the general message. Still, he is getting some fair bids for his ersatz BMW on eBay so someone thinks there's value there.

I think I might give around $1500 just to hang the thing on the wall of my shop for decoration.
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Old 02-12-2011, 05:54 PM   #22
gspell68
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When it comes to engine-clutch-transmission-driveline-wheels, I don't believe there's any interchangability here amongst the Russian & Chinese knockoffs. When I had that Dnepr, I found there was no significant interchangability between it and a Ural. You can, with some modifications to the engine mounts, put a BMW motor or motor/transmission unit into these frames, but when you have to deal with that questionable rear drive, crappy hubs and cheeze-whiz spokes, plus the wonky handling. IMHO, best keeo the BMW mill in the BMW frame.
Uhhh?
There's total interchangeability between all the major assemblies of a Ural, Dnepr, and CJ-750 and even the BMW R-71 if you wanna throw it in the mix!
The engine mounts are all the same. They all mount up to the various gearboxs the same. You may have to lengthen/shorten driveshafts depending on gearbox types. The guts of the final drives are the same and are interchangeable; the whole FD's are interchangeable as long as you maintain integrity between plunger and swingarm frames, respectively. You can swap wheels, sidecars, forks, etc. with no real problems, too.

Additionally, they aren't really knock-offs. The Russian Ural M-72's would've been considered licensed BMW's except for that whole pesky WW2 thing. The Ural factory tooling was passed on to the Chinese in the late 1950's and reportedly still being used into the 1990's.

The Dneprs, which were made in the Ukraine, were anytrhing but copies. They used a high pressure oil system and roller bearings, unlike BMW. The K-750 was designed in 1951 with rear swingarm suspension, five years before BMW used a rear swingarm. When Dnepr made a 2WD, it was a swingarm as well, unlike BMW who could only engineer theirs onto a hardtail. The sidecars were swingarm sprung as well, unlike BMW who used leaf springs or no suspension at all on their sidecars. And Dnepr gearboxes are auto-declutching (no BMW's ever had), meaning you don't really have to use the hand clutch lever except to put it into reverse, which only about 9000 special built BMW's ever had reverse.

Calling the Soviet bikes "knock-off's" just because of the engine layout is like calling every car an Oldsmobile knock off because they were the first to use overhead valves...
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Old 02-12-2011, 06:28 PM   #23
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Now, as to the the original questions...
Quote:
Is this a fairly common bike or is this a somewhat rare beast? Is this guy wrong for putting the blue prop on a non-BMW?
They're rare but fairly common! They can be found easily in China. New Old Stock (NOS) military grade rigs from the Peoples Liberation Army (PLA) with fewer than 50 kilometers could be had a couple years ago for $1000 to $1500......in China! Getting them to the USA would add another $1000+.
All totaled between Ural, Dnepr, and CJ-750's, there were more than 3,000,000 (three million) of these type rigs made.

Quote:
Anyone have experience with these knock-offs? What's their story?
In addition to what's above, the Germans gave/sold/traded the already outdated BMW R-71 designs and most likely some tooling to the Rooskies. The R-71 was the last 2-cylinder sidevalve bike BMW ever made and had a production run of about 3,800 units (none of which were ever used by the German Army except oneseys-n-tooseys in the same way the US Army uses Ford vans, which doesn't make them a "military vehicle").
The first "Russian made BMW R-71" rolled off the lines of several factories in Moskow. Some say the data plates even said BMW R-72 on the first ones. Anyhow, the plant(s) were moved to Irbit in the Urals. Total wartime production was fewer than 10,000 units.
In the late 1950's, that tooling was given to the communist Chinese and the Russians started making an improved M-72M that eventually got an OHV engine, then later a rear swingarm suspension, until it evolved into today's Ural.
The CJ-750 has gone through a few upgrades. First an external distributor lump on the left side of the flathead engine and a 12 volt system. Then a 32HP 750 OHV.
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