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Old 05-23-2011, 02:42 PM   #106
mboni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hammerhoot View Post
Here's where we get stuck, it seems like riders 1 and 3 never pair, and if they did, do riders 1 and 3 have to both tap the "A" button to let rider 2 join in? Or do we just leave it alone? Please help!!
I haven't done a 3+ rider pairing yet, but will have the opportunity to try this Friday. But here's some things to remember:

A bluetooth connection is always point-to-point, only 2 radios are involved. The G4 is kinda neat in that is has 2 radios, so you can create 2 point-to-point connections at the same time. This is what the A and B buttons are all about. The G4 can also take traffic on the A channel and forward it to the B channel (and visa-versa), so it seems like everybody is on the same channel (but they are really on separate connections).

So, to make a 3 way connection, one guy is going to be using both of his radio channels at once, he has to hit both the A button and the B button, in order to connect everybody. The other two riders are going to be using one channel only, to talk to the middleman.

And when you are pairing up radios, I don't think it matters if you use the A button or the B, so rider 1 could be using his A button while rider 2 is using the B button. The A and B buttons are local choices, they aren't relevant at the other end of the connection.
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Old 05-25-2011, 10:30 PM   #107
BlueLghtning
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IMOP, the older Q2's seemed a lot more user friendly and work much better then the G4's and since they came out with the Q2 Pro version that now adds in the bluetooth A2DP streaming, you are set. Of course, they don't do the simultaneous 3 or 4 way conversations, but in my experience, that is a crap shoot anyways.

My Dad has the G4 and my wife and I have the Q2's and it was always frustrating trying to get all 3 active at once. Once we did, we tried not to disconnect them so we didn't have to go through that again.

For the 3 way pairing, the person above pretty much gave you what you need. The one guy that has both riders connected (In your case rider 1), can open the connections independently by pressing the respective A & B buttons on his helmet. So if he wants both open at the same time, he should press one button, let it open, then press the other and it "should" open. However, I can tell you from personal experience, this does not always work. If you can't connect someone, best thing is to just turn the main unit back on and back off, let both riders "sync" up, then try it again.

If the main rider uses the VOX to open their connection, it should attempt to open both A & B connections at the same time if riders are connected to both. Again though, our experience with this multi-connection was less then favorable. It was great once it was open, but getting to that point reliably was a pain. I think some our issues was the mixing of the Q2's & G4's even though Cardo says its backwards compatible, I think they still struggle. It sounds though like 3 G4's doesn't help it much either though?

I have a buddy that just upgraded from the Scala Q2's to the Sena's and I don't think they are totally happy with those either and are struggling with them. I haven't personally used the Sena's and have followed them closely, but some people seem to love 'em and others are not so happy. After 2 years of use, my wife and I are still very happy with our Q2's. I think when they die, we'll just upgrade to the pro models to get the A2DP. I'm not sure I want to mess with a G4's after using my Dad's some. The VOX seems way more "finicky" on the G4's and takes quite a bit longer to actually open the connection compared to the Q2's.

One thing we have learned is if you were used to something like Autocomm's VOX or maybe something else where you just started talking, that doesn't work very well with any of these BT headsets. Cardo, Sena, you name it. They all lack that "immediate" just start talking VOX option. It appears most of the headsets rely on a combination hearing a substantial short but aggressive sound along with air directly hitting the microphone at the same time. So, what it takes is you coming up with a sound you can make that also generates a bit of air coming out of your mouth. We use a "beep" sound that we make by puckering our lips and making a quick blast of air as you literally make a "beep" sound. Once you hear the connection open, then start talking. Nothing is lost and it works pretty reliably.
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Old 05-26-2011, 12:47 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueLghtning View Post
IMOP, the older Q2's seemed a lot more user friendly and work much better then the G4's and since they came out with the Q2 Pro version that now adds in the bluetooth A2DP streaming, you are set. Of course, they don't do the simultaneous 3 or 4 way conversations, but in my experience, that is a crap shoot anyways.

My Dad has the G4 and my wife and I have the Q2's and it was always frustrating trying to get all 3 active at once. Once we did, we tried not to disconnect them so we didn't have to go through that again.

For the 3 way pairing, the person above pretty much gave you what you need. The one guy that has both riders connected (In your case rider 1), can open the connections independently by pressing the respective A & B buttons on his helmet. So if he wants both open at the same time, he should press one button, let it open, then press the other and it "should" open. However, I can tell you from personal experience, this does not always work. If you can't connect someone, best thing is to just turn the main unit back on and back off, let both riders "sync" up, then try it again.

If the main rider uses the VOX to open their connection, it should attempt to open both A & B connections at the same time if riders are connected to both. Again though, our experience with this multi-connection was less then favorable. It was great once it was open, but getting to that point reliably was a pain. I think some our issues was the mixing of the Q2's & G4's even though Cardo says its backwards compatible, I think they still struggle. It sounds though like 3 G4's doesn't help it much either though?

I have a buddy that just upgraded from the Scala Q2's to the Sena's and I don't think they are totally happy with those either and are struggling with them. I haven't personally used the Sena's and have followed them closely, but some people seem to love 'em and others are not so happy. After 2 years of use, my wife and I are still very happy with our Q2's. I think when they die, we'll just upgrade to the pro models to get the A2DP. I'm not sure I want to mess with a G4's after using my Dad's some. The VOX seems way more "finicky" on the G4's and takes quite a bit longer to actually open the connection compared to the Q2's.

One thing we have learned is if you were used to something like Autocomm's VOX or maybe something else where you just started talking, that doesn't work very well with any of these BT headsets. Cardo, Sena, you name it. They all lack that "immediate" just start talking VOX option. It appears most of the headsets rely on a combination hearing a substantial short but aggressive sound along with air directly hitting the microphone at the same time. So, what it takes is you coming up with a sound you can make that also generates a bit of air coming out of your mouth. We use a "beep" sound that we make by puckering our lips and making a quick blast of air as you literally make a "beep" sound. Once you hear the connection open, then start talking. Nothing is lost and it works pretty reliably.
Now you have got us all wondering about your "miraculous sound"
Seriously, the way you try to open with VOX could easily be the source of much trouble! Maybe we should discuss this a little bit more also with other users chiming in on what kind of sound they make to start the session.
We should get over the "freaky image" that it has discussing such things (as I am glad you did) because it apparently is an important issue in operating these BT devices.

Personally, I just shout (more or less shout) the persons name, and wait till he returns with "yes" and then start to talk. The question is, if this is enough to successfully start the vox to operate. I would say this succeeds about 60 percent which is way to low. Then 20 more percent I need to shout harder, and in 10 percent it is not connecting at all, even in (let's say) 5 percent needing me to reset the system.

I think you maybe on to something here. Although I can not say much on WHAT noise to make, you apparently got further down that road already!

I do not know the "old" Q2 systems. Unfortunately. So I can not compare. But what I DO know (from working years in the IT branch) is, that in very complex technical systems it is not uncommon that by repairing something you unintentionally screw up something else. It has become quite normal actually. Even in very strict controlled environments who work with release scheduling and truckloads of quality systems, this is happening.

So I do not wonder that the G4 is not working as we all would hope for. However, 2 things must be said. First is, that I do think that the G4 is made of the best possible components. I do not know that for a fact, but I derive that feeling from looking at the product materials and package materials from the outside. Second is, that it seems a lot of the functionality of the G4 is software driven.....

Now that last factor is important, since the G4 has the great advantage of easy upgrading. So we are not stuck with the most current software that runs on the G4. Cardo has the opportunity to keep working on the system and gradually update or upgrade the software to a point where it actually becomes a pleasure in using it (I hope!). Which is not the case yet.

One of the things that might help there is a strong improvement of the System Voice Response. It hardly works. "Driver A connected" is almost all I ever hear". What about changing the way the buttons work? So that when you push Button A once, it says "Button A Selected" and then when you hold it, the function is activated. It would stop you from wild guessing what the hack which button you have under your glove.
This could all be changed (improved!) by software updates.

So, although I do think the system is not perfect yet, Cardo has built in the option to eventually get there by changing the software. Furthermore, we might not yet use the system in the appropriate way, as stipulated by BlueLghtning, who in my opinion clearly has a valid point here which we, G4 users, should explore somewhat more.

What I do not understand, is why vendors of the G4 do not pick up on this thread in a more problem resolving way, instead of making this thread a marketing platform for their businesses once more. We do not need that. We already HAVE the freakin' product. We need it to function!
Any help in getting there would be much appreciated!

From the Cardo website, I read in the update notes to version 3.0 the following:
Quote:
VOX sensitivity levels can now be set according to the user's particular needs (Low, Medium, High) and can be adjusted by the end user whenever needed. The end user will be able to set the optimal VOX level for specific driving habits (lower VOX sensitivity for fast driving, etc. and vice versa) via the PC software or in the Voice Configuration Menu directly on the G4.
Look at the bold section.
Now, does this mean that when noise is to be expected of HIGH LEVEL, you should set the system to LOW ?
If that is the case, maybe we all did understand this the wrong way when we would set the system to HIGH ?
Any opinions on how to read this?

Simplyred screwed with this post 05-26-2011 at 04:06 AM
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Old 05-26-2011, 10:41 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplyred View Post
From the Cardo website, I read in the update notes to version 3.0 the following:

(lower VOX sensitivity for fast driving, etc. and vice versa)

Now, does this mean that when noise is to be expected of HIGH LEVEL, you should set the system to LOW ?
If that is the case, maybe we all did understand this the wrong way when we would set the system to HIGH ?
Any opinions on how to read this?

I read this to mean set VOX lower to prevent it from activating. I don't think we are reading it wrong. Those with open faced helmets have had to set it this way from what I can remember so unless Cardo changed it I think we are doing it right.

Just my .02
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Old 05-27-2011, 04:09 AM   #110
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I spend WAYYYYY to much time on message boards.

That said, I remember seeing a G4 cheat sheet that someone created to help with all of the programming info. I'd like to upload it Evernote so I will have it with me on my cell phone, ipad, etc.

Can anyone hook me up with a link?
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Old 05-28-2011, 01:35 AM   #111
1Buffalo
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Scala G4, Zumo 665 w/ music loaded, Blackberry

Could really use some help guys and my advanced apologies if this has already been addressed.

I have the G4. On my 2010 990 ADV I have the Zumo 665 that I loaded all my music on to and finally a Blackberry. The BB is Bluetoothed to the Zumo which then links to the Scala. So far so good.

Issue #1 - Occasionally, for no particular reason when everything is on and I try to play music from the Zumo, it comes through very distorted. I shut EVERYTHING down (UGH) & start all over but linking in a different sequence. Music fine. Then, I'll get a phone call, the music cuts off as it should but then when the call is done, no music even though it stills shows as playing on the screen. Only happens intermittently.

Issue #2 - when I'm riding with my bro and we're sync'd together, I cannot listen to my music but rather have to choose FM radio only. This is ok if we're riding in an area with a signal but when you're in the back country? No music!

So is this a Scala, Zumo or Blacberry issue? Also, my company is moving us to the new iPhone 4 in about a month so I wonder if that will help anything?

I love the unit but man, it's a pain in the ass getting everything linked up correctly! Gotta be an easier way. HELP!!!!

Thanks all,
Steve
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Old 05-28-2011, 01:56 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Buffalo View Post
Could really use some help guys and my advanced apologies if this has already been addressed.

I have the G4. On my 2010 990 ADV I have the Zumo 665 that I loaded all my music on to and finally a Blackberry. The BB is Bluetoothed to the Zumo which then links to the Scala. So far so good.

Issue #1 - Occasionally, for no particular reason when everything is on and I try to play music from the Zumo, it comes through very distorted. I shut EVERYTHING down (UGH) & start all over but linking in a different sequence. Music fine. Then, I'll get a phone call, the music cuts off as it should but then when the call is done, no music even though it stills shows as playing on the screen. Only happens intermittently.

Issue #2 - when I'm riding with my bro and we're sync'd together, I cannot listen to my music but rather have to choose FM radio only. This is ok if we're riding in an area with a signal but when you're in the back country? No music!

So is this a Scala, Zumo or Blacberry issue? Also, my company is moving us to the new iPhone 4 in about a month so I wonder if that will help anything?

I love the unit but man, it's a pain in the ass getting everything linked up correctly! Gotta be an easier way. HELP!!!!

Thanks all,
Steve
Hi Steve.

I am in no way an expert, but willing to give it a try.

First of all: indeed, the G4 is not an easy piece of equipment to work with if you want to get all out of it. But that has been said enough in this thread. Too many functions on too many buttons that are too small, and you need to do it all by fiddling around on your helmet where you can't see the device, and on top of it: whilst wearing gloves. It is a wonder anything comes out of it if you look at it that way.

That said, you say you do not get your music back after using the phone. Since all is connected through your zumo, did you try pushing the A button for 3 secs after the phone ends to get the music back?
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Old 05-28-2011, 02:37 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shunka View Post
I read this to mean set VOX lower to prevent it from activating. I don't think we are reading it wrong. Those with open faced helmets have had to set it this way from what I can remember so unless Cardo changed it I think we are doing it right.

Just my .02
When you posted this answer, I immediately though it to be correct.
However, after a few days I am starting to doubt this.

This is because of a posting I just read in some Dutch Forum of the Dutch importer, where it was clearly said, that the G4 VOX-function only works correctly when there is sufficient background noise.

So, thinking along this line:

No or little background noise would mean: No or not well functioning VOX.

So, you need background noise to make it work. Hence, this opens quite a different perspective on the settings for VOX responsiveness?

Anyone out there who has already "played around" with these settings and who owns a full face integral helmet?
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Old 05-28-2011, 08:20 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplyred View Post
Hi Steve.

***

did you try pushing the A button for 3 secs after the phone ends to get the music back?
Steve,

This is what works for me, with either the Garmin or the BB sync'ed up on the A2DP input, hold down the A button for a few seconds and the music returns.

On the VOX. I have learned the G4 senses background noise when it's turned on to set a minimum threshold of noise to ignore, and the VOX is looking for a total db value of combined voice & background noise level to activate.

If you power up the G4 without the bike engine running the VOX seldom works well once the engine is pulling you down the road. The engine & road noise alone will already exceed the threshold expected for combined background & voice and the VOX essentially disables itself unless you yell and scream into the mike.

I have learned to power up the G4 after the engine is running, with the helmet face flipped up or the helmet in my hands to let the system sense the conditions closer to the background noise while riding, and the VOX works much better. The auto volume level (AGC) control also works better, allowing the sound level to power through ear plugs (although the ear-bud or quality speaker mod may be in my future for improved fidelity at the resulting high volume level).

The software update has improved the VOX & AGC but it still works better if the handshaking with the phone and A2DP source is with the expected background noise level present.

The G4 may seem complicated, and it is complicated to sync everything, but if you isolate the functions to what you are using while riding it's not too bad to remember. If the A2DP/MP3 is what you find you need to control most often, review & memorize the A2DP & phone buttons (only the MP3 button and the volume up & down buttons, and the phone button to answer a call). With the volume & AGC set I find I typically only touch the "A" (Intercom & MP3) button and the top center mobile phone button.

Ed
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Old 05-29-2011, 06:23 PM   #115
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can i pair three G4's together and each have individual music thru bluetooth or headphone jack?
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Old 05-29-2011, 06:35 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorfiets;1Yw6035688


can i pair three G4's together and each have individual music thru bluetooth or headphone jack?
Yes,(I think) in fact I don't think you can share the music...each one would have to have its own connection to its own music source.
The manual is a free download from scala that describes all the pairings.
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Old 05-29-2011, 06:37 PM   #117
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Yes, the three headsets can communicate with each other but you can't share music.
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Old 05-29-2011, 06:49 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplyred View Post
When you posted this answer, I immediately though it to be correct.
However, after a few days I am starting to doubt this.

This is because of a posting I just read in some Dutch Forum of the Dutch importer, where it was clearly said, that the G4 VOX-function only works correctly when there is sufficient background noise.

So, thinking along this line:

No or little background noise would mean: No or not well functioning VOX.

So, you need background noise to make it work. Hence, this opens quite a different perspective on the settings for VOX responsiveness?

Anyone out there who has already "played around" with these settings and who owns a full face integral helmet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 340hp View Post

On the VOX. I have learned the G4 senses background noise when it's turned on to set a minimum threshold of noise to ignore, and the VOX is looking for a total db value of combined voice & background noise level to activate.

If you power up the G4 without the bike engine running the VOX seldom works well once the engine is pulling you down the road. The engine & road noise alone will already exceed the threshold expected for combined background & voice and the VOX essentially disables itself unless you yell and scream into the mike.

I have learned to power up the G4 after the engine is running, with the helmet face flipped up or the helmet in my hands to let the system sense the conditions closer to the background noise while riding, and the VOX works much better. The auto volume level (AGC) control also works better, allowing the sound level to power through ear plugs (although the ear-bud or quality speaker mod may be in my future for improved fidelity at the resulting high volume level).

Ed

Some experimenting is in order I think. If no one else beats me to this I'll play around with this, this week.
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Old 05-29-2011, 06:53 PM   #119
Shunka
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Originally Posted by LI LT Owner View Post
I spend WAYYYYY to much time on message boards.

That said, I remember seeing a G4 cheat sheet that someone created to help with all of the programming info. I'd like to upload it Evernote so I will have it with me on my cell phone, ipad, etc.

Can anyone hook me up with a link?
This the one you were thinking of?

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=689537
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Old 05-29-2011, 07:25 PM   #120
RonkoRider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shunka View Post
That be the one!

For those who have Smartphones, Evernote rocks! You leave notes on a server and that server synchs with phone, PC, Ipad, etc.

I will now have this cheat sheet at my fingertips wherever I roam.
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