ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Face plant
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-26-2011, 08:45 PM   #106
skierd
Wannabe Far-Rider
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Fairbanks, AK
Oddometer: 2,871
Very glad you don't have any lasting damage to the body! No such thing as a 'low' speed crash, unless its in first gear on dirt, they all hurt a little.

Hope you get the bike figured and taken care of...
__________________
"We wish your trail a long one" - Darlene "Sid" Dowd ~ Never run out of traction, ideas, and real estate at the same time.
2008 Yamaha WR250X
Eastern TAT 8/2009 ~MD-Key West-Oklahoma 4/2011~Maryland to Alaska 3/2012
skierd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2011, 10:59 AM   #107
pilot
Slacker Moderator
 
pilot's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Kansas City
Oddometer: 31,068
Okay, all the name calling and general dickery will be dealt with in a manner you don't want to see. Knock it off.
__________________
The other 10% are sociopaths , serial killers and KLR riders. You wont get much sympathy from them.
-Furious D
pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2011, 05:00 PM   #108
antiquewidow OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: UPPER NYS
Oddometer: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by See-Double-You View Post
NTSB is more of a planes & trains sort of agency.


You're thinking of: National Highway Traffic Safety Admin (NHTSA) who have already kissed BMWs buttocks.

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/defects
My report is filed at NHTSA as of today _ I also referred back to the earlier investigation.
antiquewidow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2011, 07:15 PM   #109
WayneC1
Beastly Adventurer
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
Oddometer: 2,163
Re BMW / Showa

BMW like other manufacturers run zero defect contracts with suppliers, this was well covered over at the Hubb forum some time ago. If the problems were as a result of Showa design / manufacturing then you could rest assured there would be a recall as it would be to Showa's cost not BMW.

As for forks being "off the shelf" fork lowers in particular are machine specific & not a standard item.
Axle & caliper mountings are a good part of the reasons for this.

The general conclusion is that the forks are a BMW design manufactured by Showa to order.

Re parts

A check and cross reference reveals there are now 3 part No's for each of the complete fork legs.
A new Part No will appear for the black 2011 fork lowers at some point.

All fork legs & lowers are interchangeable over the entire production period of F & G Models 1999 to 2010. The fact they are interchangeable indicates the mountings etc are all common & the Part No change is for some other reason, possible a casting change.

The axles, LHS & RHS wheel spacers, Yokes & Fork Brace are also common to the entire F & G Series & the original parts are shown as superseded in the fiche

Details are below

F650GS & Dakar 2000 - 03 Model R13
08 36312345823 SPACER BUSH (LHS)
09 36317650586 FLOATING AXLE, FRONT (superseded by 36317705569)
11 36317661196 SPACER BUSHING, EXTERIOR - ZNS (superseded by 36317705571)
01 31422345799 FORK BRACE, BLACK, LOWER (Yoke) (superseded by 31427726772)
02 31422345800 FORK BRACE, SILVER, UPPER (Yoke) (superseded by 31427726765)
07 31427667279 STABILIZER BAR WITH THREADS (superseded by 31427729244)
01 31427678481 LEFT FORK SLIDER
01 31427678482 RIGHT FORK SLIDER
01 31427676377 FORK LEG LEFT - SILVER (superseded by 31428520347)
01 31427676381 FORK LEG LEFT - SILVER
01 31427676378 FORK LEG RIGHT - SILVER (superceded by 31428520348)
01 31427676382 FORK LEG RIGHT - SILVER

F650GS & Dakar 2003 - 07 Model R13

08 36312345823 SPACER BUSH (LHS)
09 36317650586 FLOATING AXLE, FRONT (superseded by 36317705569)
11 36317661196 SPACER BUSHING, EXTERIOR - ZNS (superseded by 36317705571)
01 31422345799 FORK BRACE, BLACK, LOWER (Yoke) (superseded by 31427726772)
02 31422345800 FORK BRACE, SILVER, UPPER (Yoke) (superseded by 31427726765)
07 31427667279 STABILIZER BAR WITH THREADS (superseded by 31427729244)
01 31427678481 LEFT FORK SLIDER
01 31427678482 RIGHT FORK SLIDER
01 31427676377 FORK LEG LEFT - SILVER (superseded by 31428520347)
01 31427676381 FORK LEG LEFT - SILVER
01 31427676378 FORK LEG RIGHT - SILVER (superceded by 31428520348)
01 31427676382 FORK LEG RIGHT - SILVER

G650GS 2008-09 Model R131
08 36312345823 SPACER BUSH (LHS)
09 36317705569 FLOATING AXLE, FRONT
11 36317661196 SPACER BUSHING, EXTERIOR - ZNS (superseded by 36317705571)
11 36317705571 SPACER BUSHING, EXTERIOR - ZNS3
01 31422345799 FORK BRACE, BLACK, LOWER (Yoke) (superseded by 31427726772)
02 31422345800 FORK BRACE, SILVER, UPPER (Yoke) (superseded by 31427726765)
07 31427667279 STABILIZER BAR WITH THREADS (superseded by 31427729244)
01 31427678481 LEFT FORK SLIDER
01 31427678482 RIGHT FORK SLIDER
01 31427676377 FORK LEG LEFT - SILVER (superseded by 31428520347)
01 31427676381 FORK LEG LEFT - SILVER
01 31427676378 FORK LEG RIGHT - SILVER (superceded by 31428520348)
01 31427676382 FORK LEG RIGHT - SILVER

Model R131 2010+
MaxBMW has no PN for Forks or fork brace only listing consumables, axle, yokes & spacers

08 36312345823 SPACER BUSH (LHS)
07 36317705569 FLOATING AXLE, FRONT
08 36317705571 SPACER BUSHING, EXTERIOR - ZNS3
01 31427726772 FORK BRACE, BLACK, LOWER
02 31427726765 FORK BRACE, SILVER, UPPER

WayneC1 screwed with this post 07-03-2011 at 12:19 AM Reason: Correct Part No's
WayneC1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 12:47 AM   #110
Barance
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: New Zealand
Oddometer: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTown View Post

BTW, we have a 2011 BMW G650GS in the garage with 2500 miles on it... it's been beaten many times off road, two up, etc.... no problems besides broken hand levers...
Great bike, and looking forward to many fun miles on it, even with these nasty photos.
Firstly, sorry to hear about the crash and scary pics, my GS is 2 weeks old!

I am pleased though to see Chitowns response as this shows that not all the G's have dodgy forks. Mine has 500km on and I will be checking my forks for any issues however it is reassuring to see that thier one hasnt broken after 2500 moderate offroad miles.

I have read the whole thread and will have to reread it however was the fork failure the actual definate cause of the crash or was it an affect of the crash? As one poster notes the axle looks bent (or is it just the angle of the pic), I expect this happened as a result of the crash as I cant see it would have been able to be ridden like that.

Bike with only 95 miles on in my opinion would have new tyres that still need to have great care taken especally with a new rider.

The earlier fork issues were from memory pre 2003. Since then the F650 single has travelled many thousands of miles in the remaining 7 years of production and I am not aware that the issue reappered on the twin spark models.


I also will be interested to see what the dealer and BMW and the traffic authority report back on this, which I assume they are aware and have had an opportunity to investigate ?
Barance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 01:47 AM   #111
Barance
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: New Zealand
Oddometer: 92
Check your forks manufacturing date..

I have looked and my G650GS has a date stamp on the inside of right fork leg, mine was produced in late 2010. So the G does not have old pre 2003 forks on it they are newly manufactured.

This isnt to say there might not be an issue but they are not old forks put on the new model.
Barance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 08:40 AM   #112
lemieuxmc
Banned
 
lemieuxmc's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2009
Location: East La Jolla... it's just Clairemont!!
Oddometer: 3,360
"I am pleased though to see Chitowns response as this shows that not all the G's have dodgy forks. Mine has 500km on and I will be checking my forks for any issues however it is reassuring to see that thier one hasnt broken after 2500 moderate offroad miles.

I have read the whole thread and will have to reread it however was the fork failure the actual definate cause of the crash or was it an affect of the crash? As one poster notes the axle looks bent (or is it just the angle of the pic), I expect this happened as a result of the crash as I cant see it would have been able to be ridden like that."

Chitown didn't seem to grasp the concept that (A) non-defective forks never break like that, even when slammed down from a great height or at speed into something solid (B) the OP wasn't going fast and didn't hit anything.

You can "check" your forks all day long, and maybe it will help you maintain a mental security blanket to assuage your nagging fear that you may have spent a pile of money on an inferior product that could get you killed. The hard truth is that unless you take them apart and conduct electronic or radiographic NDT, you have no idea if you are the poor Joe who happened to get the bad part. The outrage here is the forks are so very minimally adequate, that the slightest flaw in the casting or machining can result in CATASTROPHIC failure!

You might not know any better, but I guaran-damn-tee you that the engineers and management at BMW do... and THAT'S unexcusable!
lemieuxmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 09:40 AM   #113
antiquewidow OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: UPPER NYS
Oddometer: 68
NHTSA ODI number is : 10409875

It should be available for viewing within 3 business days.
antiquewidow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 10:12 AM   #114
antiquewidow OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: UPPER NYS
Oddometer: 68
Here is a wider photo of the front wheel, I forgot who requested it.
Obviously there was NO MAJOR IMPACT where I hit anything.







antiquewidow screwed with this post 06-28-2011 at 12:47 PM
antiquewidow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 04:07 PM   #115
antiquewidow OP
Adventurer
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: UPPER NYS
Oddometer: 68
You can "check" your forks all day long, and maybe it will help you maintain a mental security blanket to assuage your nagging fear that you may have spent a pile of money on an inferior product that could get you killed. The hard truth is that unless you take them apart and conduct electronic or radiographic NDT, you have no idea if you are the poor Joe who happened to get the bad part. The outrage here is the forks are so very minimally adequate, that the slightest flaw in the casting or machining can result in CATASTROPHIC failure!

You might not know any better, but I guaran-damn-tee you that the engineers and management at BMW do... and THAT'S unexcusable![/QUOTE]

I fully agree that it is UNEXCUSABLE, I bought a BMW due to the fact that they were durable; and it was an enduro meant for country roads etc. Was I ever so wrong.

Whether this be a one time incident or the twelve doesnt matter. What does matter is that this happened in the first place. And not only to me but many previous.

There is no excuse that a $9400 vehicle with 95 miles meant to be ridden off n on the road should have this type of fork issue at all.

Those who pad their pocket at the cost of others lives should be ASHAMED of themselves.

To all the G650Gs owners out there, I wrote this board in good faith to for worn you that this has happened to me and to be careful and please check your forks during pre inspection... I did not want to see it happening again. I unlike others was thinking of someone other than myself. I also wanted to write about my first accident (the first down ) - as so many of you have.

I am totally disgusted with the pointing of the fingers, the in your window accusations etc that have been directed at me thru this post.

Although it was a low speed incident - it was one that has caused tremendous emotional & physical damage to me. No I didnt break any bones but that doesnt make it any easier or any less hurtful.

I too loved my BMW G650GS and was very proud to of owned one BUT after this incident and what I have learned -- I will NEVER EVER own another BMW bike again...Especially knowing all that I know now.
antiquewidow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 07:17 PM   #116
eepeqez
Beastly Adventurer
 
eepeqez's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Oddometer: 2,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by antiquewidow View Post
There is no excuse that a $9400 vehicle with 95 miles meant to be ridden off n on the road should have this type of fork issue at all.
The price of the bike and the mileage are irrelevant; a 10 year old Chinese pit bike bought for $200 should not have this kind of fork issue. It is avoidable and completely unacceptable.

It is also undoubtedly a mistake.

Because I can assure you as an engineer, that no one at BMW or anywhere else, knowingly designs a vehicle component which will fail in such a way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by antiquewidow View Post
Those who pad their pocket at the cost of others lives should be ASHAMED of themselves.
No one set out to "pad their pocket" at your expense.

It has been said that an engineer is someone who can make for one dollar what any fool can make for two dollars.

Very very occasionally we stuff up; we introduce some unforeseen failure mode.

This is what vehicle recalls are for.

No one wants recalls, but we want a world that doesn't do recalls when necessary even less.

There's been lots of speculation here about the cause of your failure and quite a bit of blame flinging, but now its got a NHSTA number, you can be assured that if there is an underlying systematic fault, it will eventually result in a recall and replacement of suspect parts.

Rather than swearing off of BMWs generally because of your experience, perhaps you should look at the recall rates of the available vehicle manufacturers and swear off of those who have the highest rates?

Or perhaps consider how many BMW forks have broken unexpectedly in the manner that yours has versus how many have been mashed or otherwise run down by errant car drivers, and recognise that your own riding and the drivers around you are far greater sources of danger than this very rare catastrophic failure.

I can understand a reluctance to ride on the same design of fork before we've reached an understanding of why yours failed, but not an outright rejection of all products from one of the world's better vehicle manufacturers.
eepeqez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 08:33 PM   #117
henrymartin
Mr. Tourguide
 
henrymartin's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: South of the Great North Woods
Oddometer: 3,350
Quote:
Originally Posted by eepeqez View Post
The price of the bike and the mileage are irrelevant; a 10 year old Chinese pit bike bought for $200 should not have this kind of fork issue. It is avoidable and completely unacceptable.

It is also undoubtedly a mistake.

Because I can assure you as an engineer, that no one at BMW or anywhere else, knowingly designs a vehicle component which will fail in such a way.



No one set out to "pad their pocket" at your expense.

It has been said that an engineer is someone who can make for one dollar what any fool can make for two dollars.

Very very occasionally we stuff up; we introduce some unforeseen failure mode.

This is what vehicle recalls are for.

No one wants recalls, but we want a world that doesn't do recalls when necessary even less.

There's been lots of speculation here about the cause of your failure and quite a bit of blame flinging, but now its got a NHSTA number, you can be assured that if there is an underlying systematic fault, it will eventually result in a recall and replacement of suspect parts.

Rather than swearing off of BMWs generally because of your experience, perhaps you should look at the recall rates of the available vehicle manufacturers and swear off of those who have the highest rates?

Or perhaps consider how many BMW forks have broken unexpectedly in the manner that yours has versus how many have been mashed or otherwise run down by errant car drivers, and recognise that your own riding and the drivers around you are far greater sources of danger than this very rare catastrophic failure.

I can understand a reluctance to ride on the same design of fork before we've reached an understanding of why yours failed, but not an outright rejection of all products from one of the world's better vehicle manufacturers.
Yup, my 09 G650GS has been driven long, driven hard, hit potholes, ruts, roots, rocks....the only thing that went bad with the bike was the brake fluid, but then again, i wouldn't expect it to last with as many water crossings as I did. BTW, the bike didn't even cough when I had water coming over the handlebars, it did not complain on a 4 day, 2400 mil trip, It didn't mind getting winched from the mudhole I stuck in...
I went down from a 1200 bike to this little 650 and I'm very happy with it.
henrymartin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 10:34 PM   #118
Animo
Beastly n00b
 
Animo's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Playa del Carmen
Oddometer: 4,875
I'm a little late in this thread but.... That is not a faceplant, that's a nightmare!


__________________
Life is good, even in adversity!

Yucatan | Chiapas | Belize 1 | Belize 2 | QRoo | Guanajuato
Animo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 12:06 AM   #119
Barance
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: New Zealand
Oddometer: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barance View Post
I have read the whole thread and will have to reread it however was the fork failure the actual definate cause of the crash or was it an affect of the crash?
as per my earlier comment, can this be confirmed please?

As I own one of these I need to know for my peace of mind please..

I cant see any bike road damage to the right hand side of the bike in the newer pictures shown, I assume the bike toppled to the left? even though the right fork leg broke?
Barance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 12:24 AM   #120
Barance
Adventurer
 
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: New Zealand
Oddometer: 92
[QUOTE=lemieuxmc;16271901]"I am pleased though to see Chitowns response as this shows that not all the G's have dodgy forks. Mine has 500km on and I will be checking my forks for any issues however it is reassuring to see that thier one hasnt broken after 2500 moderate offroad miles.

Sorry but I stand by this comment, as you point out I have invested my money in this bike and I am looking for reassurance that not all the forks have this fault. Chitowns response clearly proves they are not all faulty. And yep I agree one is unacceptable but it doesnt need to have every G owner that has bought one so far left in a field of FUD.


Chitown didn't seem to grasp the concept that (A) non-defective forks never break like that, even when slammed down from a great height or at speed into something solid (B) the OP wasn't going fast and didn't hit anything.

The axle on this wheel is bent, you bend your axle on your Suzuki/Harley whatever to that angle and something will give at the weakest point.

My concern here would be first, is how did the axle bend. Some have said becuase it had the weight on it..that would hold true if the other side was bent as the left side as far as we can see is still atttached, thus has the full weight of the bike. I am not an engineer so no doubt will be shot down.. but surely the end with the solid held point not the floating point would be the side that bends as the weight pushes the bike to the right which has no support?

I would be asking the dealer how was this bike in pre delivery check? was the axle bent (was it even tested?) then if it was this would have put extreme pressure on the fork. Was the bike carted using tie downs anywhere in transit and were they over tightened or poorly placed which may have caused extreme pressure ..enough to bend the axle?

Does the owner have picutres of the bike pre accident?, particulaly the right front wheel.
Barance is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 04:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014