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Old 08-05-2011, 10:18 AM   #7741
MJNygs
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Joined: Jun 2011
Oddometer: 9
I'll play along...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtonPushingMonkey View Post

What modifications to the stock setup are in place?
Nothing much - just heated grips and alarm
Quote:
How many miles were on the bike when you first noticed the stalling?
5miles , the day I drove it off the lot
Quote:
Was anything out of the ordinary done to the bike just prior to that?
Nope
Quote:
Does the outside or bike temperature seem to make a difference in the frequency of the stalls?
Seems to happen following a warm re-start of the engine, but does not happen consistently. Ambient temp does not seem to have any impact.
Quote:
Does the stalling occur more frequently after fully filling the tank?
No
Quote:
If so does a partial fill produce the same results?
No discernible difference
Quote:
Does the stalling ever occur when you are moving, but with the clutch engaged?
No
Quote:
Does the stalling occur more at long stop lights or short stop and go stops?
Only at long stops
Quote:
Does the stall ever occur while stopped but with the clutch fully engaged in 1st(ie not starting to go)?
Yes
Quote:
How about in N just sitting there?
Yes
Quote:
Does the rpm fluctuate while you are stopped just prior to the stall?
Yes
Quote:
If so explain and does it fluctuate on non-stall stops?
rpms will usually dip slightly and recover a few times before stalling, but sometimes will just fall off entirely - does not usually happen on non-stall stops. One way i've countered this is when rpms start to fluctuate, twist the throttle slightly to keep the rpms up while waiting for the light to change
Quote:
Does it stall mainly when leaving the stop?
Sometimes, but not always. In some cases, it will stall at idle while in Neutral
Quote:
If so does it make a difference if it was a stop that you stayed in first and held the clutch in or a stop that you shifted into N, let out the clutch, pulled the clutch in, shifted back into 1 before trying to leave?
No difference
Quote:
Can you consistently reproduce the stalling? If so what steps do you take that more often than not result in a stall?
No, cannot consistently reproduce, which makes it especially odd. Seems to want to occur just before the stoplight turns green and when you have a long line of cars behind you. Overall it is not a huge factor, just more of an annoyance - have only had it occur 15-20 times total over the 3 months and 3k miles on the bike.
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Old 08-05-2011, 10:32 AM   #7742
KildareMan
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Location: County Kildare, Ireland
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This is what happens when you have an old anti static mat whispering "use me"

Seat lock cover


"Hole" filler for raised touring screen


Extended rear mud guard


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Old 08-05-2011, 11:38 AM   #7743
markjenn
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Location: Swellvue, WA
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I'll stick in my $0.02 and speculate that when a new bike design intermittently stalls at idle or when approaching idle it often has to do with the re-introduction of idle fuel on coast down.

For emissions and fuel economy reasons, most FI bikes (and cars) completely cut fuel off on coast-down when you're at speed and off the throttle. At some point as the bike decelerates to a stop and the rider pulls the clutch, you have to re-introduce fuel to allow the bike to idle. This is tricky area of software as you can use various clues from the engine speed, road speed, and other sensors about when you likely need to do this. And you want the re-introduction to be "soft" so you don't get a lurch when you add fuel in again.

It's possible that the Triumph's software is adaptive, meaning it changes its behavior based on how the rider is using the bike. This might be the reason an identical bike will have no issues with some riders and many issues with others. It also points to something to try if your bike isn't running well - pull the battery cable for a few minutes and see if things change.

There may also be hardware and sensor interactions that are not properly sorted. For example, a tolerance glitch in the throttle position sensors (TPS) and wreck havoc to a system that is sensitive to this sort of thing.

Constraining how much Triumph can tweak things is the emissions certification. Triumph can't just change things indiscriminately - they have to show that their changes aren't likely to increase overall emissions.

Give them time and I bet they'll get it fixed. Hopefully without big tradeoffs in other areas - the Multistrada fueling fix ended up having some drawbacks.

- Mark
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Old 08-05-2011, 11:42 AM   #7744
bross
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
I'll stick in my $0.02 and speculate that when a new bike design intermittently stalls at idle or when approaching idle it often has to do with the re-introduction of idle fuel on coast down.

For emissions and fuel economy reasons, most FI bikes (and cars) completely cut fuel off on coast-down when you're at speed and off the throttle. At some point as the bike decelerates to a stop and the rider pulls the clutch, you have to re-introduce fuel to allow the bike to idle. This is tricky area of software as you can use various clues from the engine speed, road speed, and other sensors about when you likely need to do this. And you want the re-introduction to be "soft" so you don't get a lurch when you add fuel in again.

It's possible that the Triumph's software is adaptive, meaning it changes its behavior based on how the rider is using the bike. This might be the reason an identical bike will have no issues with some riders and many issues with others. It also points to something to try if your bike isn't running well - pull the battery cable for a few minutes and see if things change.

There may also be hardware and sensor interactions that are not properly sorted. Some tolerance glitch in the throttle position sensors (TPS) and wreck havoc to a system that is sensitive to this sort of thing.

Constraining how much Triumph can tweak things is the emissions certification. Triumph can't just change things indiscriminately - they have to show that their changes aren't likely to increase overall emissions.

Give them time and I bet they'll get it fixed. Hopefully without big tradeoffs in other areas - the Multistrada fueling fix ended up having some drawbacks.

- Mark
As in mileage, they may be able to tweak it to run better at the expense of mileage.
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Old 08-05-2011, 11:47 AM   #7745
ButtonPushingMonkey
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Not having the stalling issue right now I can tell you what I would try as a workaround until the fix was brought out by triumph...I would get the bike nice and hot, then adjust the throttle slack such that it had just enough tension to raise the rpm by 100 or so. Then I would ride it and see if that kept it from stalling if so, great if not I would up it again. That would at least allow me to not always have the "is it gonna stall?" sitting in my head every time I came to a stop while I waited for triumph to provide an update.

Basically the thought behind this is to put in just enough input to the tps to prevent the ecu from falling into the the bad idle mode. This is distinctly different than upping the ecu default idle speed...

ButtonPushingMonkey screwed with this post 08-05-2011 at 11:54 AM
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Old 08-05-2011, 12:16 PM   #7746
grZack
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???

Did anyone try to adjust (higher) the engine idling speed?
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Old 08-05-2011, 12:34 PM   #7747
soph9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtonPushingMonkey View Post
Not having the stalling issue right now I can tell you what I would try as a workaround until the fix was brought out by triumph...I would get the bike nice and hot, then adjust the throttle slack such that it had just enough tension to raise the rpm by 100 or so. Then I would ride it and see if that kept it from stalling if so, great if not I would up it again. That would at least allow me to not always have the "is it gonna stall?" sitting in my head every time I came to a stop while I waited for triumph to provide an update.

Basically the thought behind this is to put in just enough input to the tps to prevent the ecu from falling into the the bad idle mode. This is distinctly different than upping the ecu default idle speed...
This what we are doing for now and it works for an undetermined amount of time but it works


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Old 08-05-2011, 02:59 PM   #7748
TAMPAJIM
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charcoal canister removal

For anybody thinking of removing the canister, here is how the F800GS guys did it

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=500968
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Old 08-05-2011, 03:52 PM   #7749
blacktiger
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Location: St.Leonards on Sea, England.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtonPushingMonkey View Post
Not having the stalling issue right now I can tell you what I would try as a workaround until the fix was brought out by triumph...I would get the bike nice and hot, then adjust the throttle slack such that it had just enough tension to raise the rpm by 100 or so. Then I would ride it and see if that kept it from stalling if so, great if not I would up it again. That would at least allow me to not always have the "is it gonna stall?" sitting in my head every time I came to a stop while I waited for triumph to provide an update.

Basically the thought behind this is to put in just enough input to the tps to prevent the ecu from falling into the the bad idle mode. This is distinctly different than upping the ecu default idle speed...
My thoughts on that is that you could make the situation worse because if it's the TPS that's at fault, as I suspect, every time you turn the key, your new cable position would be "zero" for the TPS. IMO it's the TPS zero position that's too low which is forcing the tickover lower than it should be and the engine then stalls.

What I'd like someone to do (because I don't have the problem) is :-
1) Before turning the key, twist the throttle and let it go so that it snaps back hard against its stop.
2) Turn the key and let everything prime up.
3) Press the starter button with your index finger. To make sure you're not accidentally twisting the throttle slightly when starting the engine.
4) See if you still have the stalling problem.
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2013 black Tiger800XC, The other British Land Rover. 500 miles and counting.
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Old 08-05-2011, 06:18 PM   #7750
Xcountry-Rider
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Location: Pine Valley, California (San Diego County)
Oddometer: 912
Twisted Throttle farkle video

Twisted Throttle released a video with all the recommended farkles they sell for the Tiger

.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0-W2EejDlc
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Old 08-05-2011, 07:56 PM   #7751
Midpack
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Jesse Luggage

A couple of 9" charcoal bags on the XC. They tuck in nicely, are solid, and don't feel like they cause much drag. Al has a tail rack ready and a shorter in height top box, but I didn't op for them. I was hoping he would of done a rack that eliminated the passenger seat so you can situate a top box over the side cases or strap bags/packs/tents to. The right bag comes in another inch if you run an aftermarket pipe.

Midpack screwed with this post 02-14-2012 at 03:37 AM
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Old 08-05-2011, 07:58 PM   #7752
Midpack
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Jesse Bags pic 2

Be patient.
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Old 08-05-2011, 08:04 PM   #7753
cug
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Originally Posted by Midpack View Post
A couple of 9" charcoal bags on the XC.
Is it just the photo or are they really hanging down? Looks like the Jesse boxes often look on a GS after a drop ...
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Old 08-05-2011, 08:07 PM   #7754
Midpack
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Jesse bags pic 3

Hope this helps any of you considering hard bags for you Tiger. I really like the rounded edges.
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Old 08-05-2011, 08:17 PM   #7755
Midpack
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Jesse bags

You replied before I got the 3rd pic up. I went out just now and measured, front to back the bags cant down about 4". I loosen the quick release to see I could angle the case up, but couldn't. Then again the bike isn't loaded. I looked over at my ST2 Ducati and its bags are at the same angle. I don't have any problems with them. I also didn't have the quick release cinched up all the way, to much of a hurry before it got dark...
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