New DeLorme inReach - Looks like a sweet competitor for SPOT Connect

[craftycoder]

The radio chip costs about $200 and the service also has a fee that the satellite operator charges. Honestly, DeLorme is selling thing at cost. I assume they have built a little profit into it by securing better prices than I could get by buy large volumes, but ultimately putting satellites into space is very expensive and these radios are not built in the volumes necessary to bring the chip prices way down.

DeLorme doesn't have their own satellites, so they have to charge the monthly fee or raise the price high enough to cover the fees in some sort of annuity style calculation. Pushing the direct fees for using the satellites makes a lot of sense to me. I think this a great product. Now that I see the price I'd not even consider developing my own version, they are selling it at near cost for crying out loud.

Originally Posted by Lobby

I disagree with the subscription fee comments.

While I'd like to have a Spot, the subscription fee turns me away. I take 3 or 4 long motorcycle trips per year. Say 10 days each. Paying for 12 months of subscription when I only need it for 4 grates on me.

So I don't buy these things and wait for something reasonable to come along.

[wparkinson]

I really like the idea of this product. I have a Gen II spot and it has worked for me thus far but it does have its limitations.

I really don't like the every 10min update. Plus the 2way custom aspect of it is good to.

I am a Delorme user already and have really enjoyed their products over the years. I started out with a Serial GPS many years ago. Now i have a USB that I use on my Dell DUO in my truck and a PN40 that I use on my bike.

The fact that they are going to let you download the maps to your phone is a great feature. With the Purchase of the inReach and the monthly subscription you get the option to download the Delorme maps to your phone. That is great. Whenever my PN40 dies I will get a PN60/w and an inReach.... bye bye Spot.... I am sure that the price will come down quickly once it hits the market....

I look forward to the release... now I just gotta save my spare change so I can get one when it comes out......

WP

[thewilds]

I looked at the Spot Connect but discounted it because as a stand-alone device, it only has SOS and none of the other buttons of the Spot II (i.e. I'm okay, custom message, tracking). However, the DoLorme InReach seems to address those shortcomings, as a standalone unit, it has tracking, SOS, and what looks like the ability to dispatch pre-composed messages, pretty much what Spot II does. Then the advantage of the InReach kicks in, that is, if your cell phone is still alive, you can communicate by two-way texting.

A retailer's website shows the monthly subscription for InReach starting at $9.99 or roughly $120 per year. There are no details how many free messages you get or the per message cost or what other fees are involved.

For comparison, I'm into the second year on the subscription for the Spot II and I see the charges on my credit card was $180 USD. I was expecting something in the range of $149 but I see there is an $17.99 device replacement insurance cost and the annual $12.99 rescue insurance.

Given the difference of $60 between the Spot II and the DeLorme InReach annual subscription, I'm sure for the times that I use the InReach, I could send quite a few text messages for $60. Otherwise. 99% of the time I'd be using the tracking feature. The 10 min. interval on the Spot II is fine if you're traveling at high speed in or on a vehicle. For hiking, a longer interval and therefore more battery life would be fine. Apparently with the InReach, you can set the tracking interval.

The weak link in either the Connect or the InReach is the cell phone. At the rate smart phones consume power, the phone will die within days into the trip. Also it doesn't take much to mess up the phone, such as leaving it on, dropping it, or getting it wet.

The devices are slowly getting there. . One day it'll be a waterproof, floating device that will fit in the palm of your hand, weighing no more than 175 g and have a mechanical keyboard and a small text screen.

[HogWild]

Originally Posted by thewilds

A retailer's website shows the monthly subscription for InReach starting at $9.99 or roughly $120 per year. There are no details how many free messages you get or the per message cost or what other fees are involved.

My understanding is that they may charge something on the order of $0.50 per text message. I haven't see that published anywhere for the inReach, but another user of the Iridium modem charges something like that. My guess is the $9.99 per month will cover live tracking at some nominal update rate, but may not include any text messages. We'll see!

[RevBill]

DeLorme Earthmate PN-60W Portable GPS Navigator with SPOT Satellite Communicator

http://www.amazon.com/DeLorme-Earthm...5665131&sr=8-1

.. anyone checked this out or have any input?? .. I just started a thread asking the same before I found this one ..

WP .. looks like you're familiar with DeLorme already .. any input?? ..

.. I'm already planning on getting a SPOT next year .. this rig may be the "Tax Refund Present" to myself ..

[OneEffinName]

They have announced the subscription pricing for the inreach:

http://blog.delorme.com/2011/09/

$10/mo - no tracking, includes 10 msgs/mo, $1.50 per msg after

$25/mo - unlimited tracking, incl 40 msgs/mo, $0.50 per msg after

$50/mo - unlimited tracking, incl 120 msgs/mo, $0.25 per msg after

You can move to a cheaper plan for $25 or move up for free.

Messages are both send AND received!


SPOT
- crappy Globalstar network
- send only
- no text messages
- no message sent confirmation
- tracking
- $100 unit cost
- $100/yr for basic service - no tracking
- $150/yr for basic plus tracking

INREACH
- High availablity Iridium network
- two way text messaging
- message sent confirmation
- $250 unit cost
- $120/yr for basic service - no tracking, 10 text msgs/month
- $300/yr for tracking and 40 msgs/month

In summary, to have reliable tracking you have to pay upfront an extra $150, and then $150/yr for inreach.

My wife wants the INREACH - I concur.

[craftycoder]

I like it. I'm not in the market for one, but it is absolutely superior to the Spot offering IMO.

Originally Posted by OneEffinName

They have announced the subscription pricing for the inreach:

http://blog.delorme.com/2011/09/

$10/mo - no tracking, includes 10 msgs/mo, $1.50 per msg after

$25/mo - unlimited tracking, incl 40 msgs/mo, $0.50 per msg after

$50/mo - unlimited tracking, incl 120 msgs/mo, $0.25 per msg after

You can move to a cheaper plan for $25 or move up for free.

Messages are both send AND received!


SPOT
- crappy Globalstar network
- send only
- no text messages
- no message sent confirmation
- tracking
- $100 unit cost
- $100/yr for basic service - no tracking
- $150/yr for basic plus tracking

INREACH
- High availablity Iridium network
- two way text messaging
- message sent confirmation
- $250 unit cost
- $120/yr for basic service - no tracking, 10 text msgs/month
- $300/yr for tracking and 40 msgs/month

In summary, to have reliable tracking you have to pay upfront an extra $150, and then $150/yr for inreach.

My wife wants the INREACH - I concur.

[moto_dmitriy]

InReach does sound like a better device. BUT the service is much more expensive especially when you consider that and message even checkIN / OK are counted towards your quota or overages, it's also very easy to get a giant bill is someone decides to spam you with messages. So you are ether going to artificially limit who can send you messages or taking a contionus choice that you might have a giant bill.

I am hoping global star get a competitive device out soon

[craftycoder]

Originally Posted by moto_dmitriy

I am hoping global star get a competitive device out soon

Their satellites don't have the same kind of bandwidth I don't believe. Iridium was originally designed for voice communication which is why it can do this.

This is not a pager, it's a emergency communication device. Use it like that and it's worth whatever it costs. Use it like a pager and we can all agree that its frickin expensive.

[OneEffinName]

Here are a couple of things to consider. SPOT vs INREACH:

SPOT
- no confirmation of tracking or messages - you have no idea if your latest tracks or SOS message has reached anyone. You could be sitting on your butt out in the middle of the woods wondering if someone got your message. If you are past your "return home" time, your wifey could be at home calling S&R telling them your last position was 100 km/mi from where you are currently located.

- uses the globalstar network - I have direct experience with globalstar phones in Canada: they are terrible. In some places only a 10min window during the hour. Often takes 15-30mins just to connect.

INREACH
- confirmed messages - you know your message has been received

- two way text messaging - you can give details of your problem

- iridium network - global coverage - all the time.


Without reliable, confirmed messages SPOT is just a toy. People are buying it because of good marketing and its "cool". BUT if you really are a high risk adventurer/soloist you need to rely upon your emergency communications. Number one: Get a PLB. Number two: an iridium sat phone. INREACH might replace the sat phone, it looks promising.

[HogWild]

Originally Posted by OneEffinName

SPOT
- uses the globalstar network - I have direct experience with globalstar phones in Canada: they are terrible. In some places only a 10min window during the hour. Often takes 15-30mins just to connect.

There is no correlation between their sat phone performance and their simplex "SPOT" performance. The sat phone service sucks because the amplifiers in the satellite for their phone service have degraded and barely work (design flaw). The simplex data path is completely separate and works fine. Apples and oranges!

SPOT
- Proven to work great when used as directed and within its limitations.

INREACH
- Unproven.
- If it works as advertised it will be better than SPOT, and you'll get what you pay for, but we don't know yet.

[OneEffinName]

Originally Posted by HogWild

There is no correlation between their sat phone performance and their simplex "SPOT" performance. The sat phone service sucks because the amplifiers in the satellite for their phone service have degraded and barely work (design flaw). The simplex data path is completely separate and works fine. Apples and oranges!

Thats crap. If you have poor coverage satellites, doesn't matter how many apples or oranges you got going, you are going to have crap reception. Globalstar has crap coverage because of its lack of satelites. Might work OK in SoCal, but not up in this rugged territory. Nothing to do with amplifiers or SPOT simplex technology (bad use of the term BTW - simplex implies sending AND receiving).

[HogWild]

Originally Posted by OneEffinName

Thats crap. If you have poor coverage satellites, doesn't matter how many apples or oranges you got going, you are going to have crap reception.

Like all RF communications, there is a limited coverage area. If you're outside that coverage area it's not going to work. GlobalStar has many satellites, but since they must link to one of only a few fixed ground stations, the satellite must be within range of both your sat phone and the ground station. Since there are no ground stations in the oceans nor in places like the far North of Canada or most of Africa, GlobalStar doesn't work there. The duplex (2-way voice & data) coverage map below shows what the ideal coverage should be. BUT, due to several of their satellites having problems with the amplifiers, those satellites will have smaller coverage areas or none at all. When one of those failing satellites is the one flying past you when you're trying to call, you're likely to have problems. Sometime later when one of the good satellites passes by, all might be fine, for a few minutes, but then things may go bad as that satellite goes out of range and the next one, which may be degraded, comes by. If they did not have problems with a group of their satellites, voice service across the USA and a good portion of Canada would be very good, as it was in the early days of their service.

Originally Posted by OneEffinName

Globalstar has crap coverage because of its lack of satelites. Might work OK in SoCal, but not up in this rugged territory. Nothing to do with amplifiers or SPOT simplex technology (bad use of the term BTW

Service is pretty crappy everywhere, because of the amplifier problems. It's a lack of WORKING satellites, not a lack of satellites. Once those failed satellites are replaced, things should work pretty well, as long as you're within the coverage areas on that map. A quick Google search of "globalstar amplifier problem" might be educational.

Originally Posted by OneEffinName

- simplex implies sending AND receiving).

A quick Google search of "simplex" would be further education.

[1Bonehead]

So:
does anyone have one yet? I thin the inreach is pretty awesome. I like the fact you could use your casio commando phone and inreach together.

[OneEffinName]

I bought the InReach. Also have a SPOT II.

The InReach tracks pretty good and have message confirmation - which really mean the message has been sent. SPOT II will have a message "sending" light, but it is not a confirmation that the message made it. Numerous SPOT messages have been sent and the message light flashed for a long duration, but it never was received.

Inreach falls down with the bluetooth pairing to a smart phone. Does not work with HTC devices - period. Even with my Samsung, the paring was troublesome, and reconnect was a PIA.

In Canada the cost of Inreach is a lot more expensive. (sucks for me, but not for you yanks).

So basically - both are moderatley OK. But I dont have a lot of trust in them. They are fine to say "see where I am", but not reliable enough to say "this was my last location before I fell in the hole, start looking here".

I will still set up a expected return time when I venture off on the backlwood trips. I will still carry my PLB and the sat phone. But then I go by myself and venture deep into the woods. A lot of guys buddy ride and stay close to pavement.