Is Mexico Safe?

[WakeDude]

Originally Posted by PirateJohn

Point 1: Agreed.

Point 2: I might disagree with some of the guys here because many like to go to small towns but I personally enjoy nightclubs, industry, good food, and so forth. So there are some cities that I really enjoy: Monterrey, Reynosa, Mazatlan, etc. I also like the tourist area of Tijuana, tacky as it may be to some.

I think that most of us would say to be wary (or avoid completely) Juarez right now.

I personally would avoid New York City on a bike but the more that I hear about the DF (Mexico City) the more tempted I am to ride there sometime.

Anyway, my $.02 worth.

Point 3: Go ahead and wear your normal riding clothes; you can't hide the fact that you are a gringo moto tourist. But leave your Rolex and gold chains at home.

Point 4: The water in many Mexican cities is no worse than the water in many small south Texas towns; no one drinks that crap either. It's 2011 and the Mexican water stories are greatly overrated these days but I'd avoid drinking the tap water just the same.

Point 5: Bingo!

Point 2: Noted

Point 3: I'm a moto tourist but definitely not a gringo.

Point 4: Noted

Thank you.

[SchizzMan]

Originally Posted by Pedro Navaja

I like El Morillo. It's on the south side of the town. It used to be a hacienda. Some of the old buildings are still there, the chapel, etc. Very nice. Not expensive. I see they have redone their website. http://www.hotelsaltillo.com/

As you know there are many abandoned haciendas in Mexico. Ghost towns, not tourist attractions. They just sit out there rotting away. Makes for good adventure riding. Very good book on the hacienda and encomienda system in Mexico is http://www.amazon.com/Society-Coloni...7776542&sr=8-1 You can get a copy at the local library if they have inter-library loan. I've been doing a lot of personal research on that topic and also religious art. The Saltillo cathedral has one of the finest collections of religious art in the world. Much of the religious art of Mexico disappeared during the 1910 revolution, and more again during La Cristiada war.

Thanks Mike!

Gonna check out El Morillo on the return leg next month.

Also ordered the book.

[Bato]

Originally Posted by Pedro Navaja

I like El Morillo. It's on the south side of the town. It used to be a hacienda. Some of the old buildings are still there, the chapel, etc. Very nice. Not expensive. I see they have redone their website. http://www.hotelsaltillo.com/

As you know there are many abandoned haciendas in Mexico. Ghost towns, not tourist attractions. They just sit out there rotting away. Makes for good adventure riding. Very good book on the hacienda and encomienda system in Mexico is http://www.amazon.com/Society-Coloni...7776542&sr=8-1 You can get a copy at the local library if they have inter-library loan. I've been doing a lot of personal research on that topic and also religious art. The Saltillo cathedral has one of the finest collections of religious art in the world. Much of the religious art of Mexico disappeared during the 1910 revolution, and more again during La Cristiada war.

I stayed in this hacienda for a week during vw convention back in the early 80's when hadn't be industrialized and had no tv's or wifi's impresive

REVIEWS

[MikeMike]

It is actually "Guia Roji". Yes, they have red on the cover but it is Roji and not Rojo or Roja or RoRoRoYourBoat.

Here is there website.
http://www.guiaroji.com.mx/

They are not the best and I have yet to find a map that truly shows what is on the ground. Roji is littered with errors especially when it comes to what is paved and what isn't, not to mention putting on roads that are not there and forgetting ones that are. Your best bet is to use a combination of a couple of sources and solicit local rider knowledge or at least talk to a taxi driver (you will find them everywhere, even 50 miles down a dirt road network, if there are people there are taxis and when you start to see taxis it is a sign of civilization) or talk to a Pemex attendant because they live in the area.

You will find the conversation fun, they will give you up to date info and likely a tip or two about maybe a nice little waterfall or lookout spot or something that you would normally miss all together. You won't really know what is there unless you put your wheels towards it and actually ride the area.

[kantuckid]

Originally Posted by MikeMike

If Calderon ever got serious about fighting the narcos, he could start by building a fence around San Lazaro!
Every single Mexican politician and their families should have their passports and visas revoked and they should be forced to take vacations within their own country before jetting off to Orlando and Beverley Hills etc... Their kids should be forced to attend state run public schools and they should all be audited out the whazoo, be forced to take public transportation and receive treatment in public hospitals. They should also be forced to learn to ride a motorcycle and cover miles here from north to south and east to west as well as be subject to registering a vehicle and the paperwork it entails. He won't ever do it, he isn't half the politician or man that the late Manuel Clouthier was.

There, I feel a lot better now! Being capable of whipping myself into a one man, pitch fork carrying, torch bearing tornado like frenzy, gives me a false sense of security that I have the answers, when I really don't.

And all that(like school choice/bike riding/ medical care ad infintum) , if it were to come true, would result in something less than the BS artist(I wonder if they all listen to tapes of their BS in retirement?) that is the base human factor in all politicians-Mexican or elsewhere?

[PirateJohn]

Originally Posted by WakeDude

Point 2: Noted

Point 3: I'm a moto tourist but definitely not a gringo.

Point 4: Noted

Thank you.

My pleasure and I hope that you have a great time!

My flippant comment about being a gringo in Mexico is that unless you really, really know the culture and know the language that you cannot pass as Mexican if you have a US-Spanish or Cuban-Spanish dialect. And then little things like US shoes and other clothing give most of us away.

For someone like myself I tell people not to even bother trying to blend in.

I will say this, that with the recent troubles I have adjusted a few things:

- I used to wear a TAG Heuer watch when in Mexico. It's Swiss Army now.

- I tend to stay away from military-look pants and shirts. A few years ago I would have worn 5.11 pants with cargo pockets; now I tend towards lighter colored pants (nylon North Face pants are comfy if not particularly attractive).

- Hawaiian shirts used to be a bit of a trademark of mine; I've slightly gotten away from those but they sure scream out "tourist, and not a cartel member." But just the same lighter-colored stuff seems to be preferable, both for comfort in the heat and also because it doesn't look military.

- I am pretty old school and I avoid wearing shorts unless I go somewhere that is full of gringo tourists. Arte and some of the other guys may laugh at this but once upon a time shorts on adults were considered pretty tacky in Mexico. Probably much more accepted again.

With all this said and done I wouldn't get too tense about what to wear and how to appear in Mexico. Wear your normal riding clothes.

And have fun!

[kantuckid]

Originally Posted by SR

Hey Mike, remember in Mexico any participation in political discourse by a foreigner is against the rules of the work visa. No Complaining! You could be putting your self at risk of deportation!

In all honesty and on a serious note , I have had some interesting conversations with many Mexicans over all the same hot button issues that entertain the concerns of gringos,i.e., illegals getting benefits,committing crimes in USA while here,gaining citizenship & you name it and so on down the line. There is a thin line between world cultures when it comes to true common sense. I place cartel types & terrorists & those that wont/dont choose to work in another category. Complaining can be a great form of discussion as evidenced by many on ADVrider. I've ranted here when no one else in my woods home to tell it too(thanks for the soapbox!) & you can click me/you if too much to take!

[kantuckid]

Originally Posted by GeezerStank

Well the countries you've listed are at the mooment rather quiet compared to Mexico. Mexico's war is creating more casualties than anywhere else. I can't think of any other country at the moment that has truckloads of tortured dead people being dumped on the freeway, men and women, or another country that has internet users being executed and beheaded for posting on the internet. Mexico is number one right now because it has the most active war with the most casualties. I'm continually surprised at the "poor picked on Mexico" attitude on this thread, you aren't being picked on, you're earning the attention by having the sickest crazy war violence currently on the planet. Maybe you'll get lucky and the Israel/Palestine thing will heat up, or the Taliban will do something, until then Mexico is Numero Uno. Not because everyone hates you, but because Mexico is currently the most violent place with the most sick crazy stuff going on, that's boys and girls is news........And yeah, since Mexico borders the U.S., it's a huge American tourist destination, lots of U.S. companies are there and we are connected by the drug trade, uh yeah, it might make the news due to those factors too.

In reality, when I watch my nightly news I rarely hear anything about Mexico, but everyday I get news from Mexican sources on the interent about the daily violence that is never reported here on TV. I'd say it''s under reported.

I'm sure this will generate some flames from the usual suspects, but the truth is the truth, at least I'm not posting from inside Mexico, that could be fatal at the moment.

OK, so to make a point I'll tell my side of the above. During the hot part of the Iraq thing & during my oldest son's 4 tours as a Marine combat (Cobra) pilot(and on of his brothers 2 tours) we watched the news banners at the bottom of the screen with a passion that can only be driven by concern for your own kid! Several times we had to endure the knowledge that a helo/Cobra was down without knowing IF it was our guy! Now, the Afgahan thing goes on much the same(our boys are not there) and you do not get that same coverage.Unless a local son is killed or a general has a comment, this has become 2nd page or further news. The media apparently send you what they think will gain your attention & what sells adv $. This isn't a political commentary, simply saying I really don't understand why we are getting the Mexico issues thrown at us/not thrown at us as they are. Given 12 million illegals stated to be in USA I can see some connection but must be a complicated issue? When in traveling in Mexico the gore on the newspaper front pages is often seen at every intersection by paper sellers so it IS! what sells there for sure.While my experience has been peaceful there, I heard reports of gunfire in the same towns/locales as where I had stayed (on the same day in Saltillo) & elsewhere.
To gain some knowledge of who shoots,stabs beats whom in the USA crime facts tell you it is often gangbangers or people that know each other that are involved & only in the rare "crazy type does random stuff" does it involve bystanders. The violonce in Mexico happens there , not here so only natural we don't get it all, just like I don't get NYC or LA news in my KY paper.

[WakeDude]

Originally Posted by PirateJohn

My pleasure and I hope that you have a great time!

My flippant comment about being a gringo in Mexico is that unless you really, really know the culture and know the language that you cannot pass as Mexican if you have a US-Spanish or Cuban-Spanish dialect. And then little things like US shoes and other clothing give most of us away.

For someone like myself I tell people not to even bother trying to blend in.

I will say this, that with the recent troubles I have adjusted a few things:

- I used to wear a TAG Heuer watch when in Mexico. It's Swiss Army now.

- I tend to stay away from military-look pants and shirts. A few years ago I would have worn 5.11 pants with cargo pockets; now I tend towards lighter colored pants (nylon North Face pants are comfy if not particularly attractive).

- Hawaiian shirts used to be a bit of a trademark of mine; I've slightly gotten away from those but they sure scream out "tourist, and not a cartel member." But just the same lighter-colored stuff seems to be preferable, both for comfort in the heat and also because it doesn't look military.

- I am pretty old school and I avoid wearing shorts unless I go somewhere that is full of gringo tourists. Arte and some of the other guys may laugh at this but once upon a time shorts on adults were considered pretty tacky in Mexico. Probably much more accepted again.

With all this said and done I wouldn't get too tense about what to wear and how to appear in Mexico. Wear your normal riding clothes.

And have fun!

John,

Thanks again for the tips. This trip is during the summer months next year so shorts will be a must, but to this day the cultures still frown upon men wearing shorts.

I have been fortunate enough to work on a daily basis with people from almost every C.A., and S.A. country. I understand the dialect, and can match it, and I also can grow a mean Pancho Villa mustache!

-Alex

[SR]

Originally Posted by Pedro Navaja

I like El Morillo. It's on the south side of the town. It used to be a hacienda. Some of the old buildings are still there, the chapel, etc. Very nice. Not expensive. I see they have redone their website. http://www.hotelsaltillo.com/

As you know there are many abandoned haciendas in Mexico. Ghost towns, not tourist attractions. They just sit out there rotting away. Makes for good adventure riding. Very good book on the hacienda and encomienda system in Mexico is http://www.amazon.com/Society-Coloni...7776542&sr=8-1 You can get a copy at the local library if they have inter-library loan. I've been doing a lot of personal research on that topic and also religious art. The Saltillo cathedral has one of the finest collections of religious art in the world. Much of the religious art of Mexico disappeared during the 1910 revolution, and more again during La Cristiada war.

Thanks Pedro. I just picked up a copy on Amazon too. A love the old Haciendas and the history that goes with them. It is amazing how many old haciendas there are around rural Mexico. Some have been restored but there must be hundreds of them that are just crumbling ruins. Definitely makes for good adventure riding/exploring.

I found some writings on-line from a professor who seems to be an expert on pre-revolution rural life and politics in rural Mexico. His specialty ares is eastern Durango It's fun to learn about how these places used to be and see how they are now.
https://www.msu.edu/~walkerd/proindex.htm

I know of at least a half a dozen old haciendas around here. I keep Google Earth/GPS file of the locations of these places. I am happy to pass to anyone interested.

SR

[Pedro Navaja]

Originally Posted by SR

Thanks Pedro. I just picked up a copy on Amazon too.

I have a supplementary paper on the subject. If you want it, PM me your e-mail and I will send you the .pdf file.

Originally Posted by SR

I know of at least a half a dozen old haciendas around here. I keep Google Earth/GPS file of the locations of these places. I am happy to pass to anyone interested. SR

These are architectural treasures. The government needs to catalogue these and try to preserve the ruins. Some of these old haciendas are being restored to B&B's, but sometimes that restoration ruins the architectural treasure itself. I mean would anybody restore The Coliseum in Rome to the point where we could play/watch futbol in it?

[tricepilot]

Originally Posted by Pedro Navaja

I have a supplementary paper on the subject.

^ My inbox is empty :-/

[Pedro Navaja]

Originally Posted by tricepilot

^ My inbox is empty :-/

Check your AOL account. It should be there.

[tricepilot]

^ My inbox is filled

[SR]

Originally Posted by Pedro Navaja

I have a supplementary paper on the subject. If you want it, PM me your e-mail and I will send you the .pdf file.

These are architectural treasures. The government needs to catalogue these and try to preserve the ruins. Some of these old haciendas are being restored to B&B's, but sometimes that restoration ruins the architectural treasure itself. I mean would anybody restore The Coliseum in Rome to the point where we could play/watch futbol in it?

Agreed, they should do something to preserve these places. Come on, what's wrong with a Jacuzi in the old chapel! From what I have seen, the privately owned ones are in much better shape than the ones that are owned and maintained (not maintained) by the Ejios.