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Old 10-02-2011, 08:01 PM   #16
Roadracer_Al
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DR 650 rear wheels have cush drive and a decent sized brake rotor. Heavy like Roseanne Barr, tho.

I scored one for $250 locally, and it even has a 18" rim on it instead of the stock 17" rim. For bigger, more powerful bikes, especially these Frankenstein things I seem to like, they are IMHO an ideal wheel if you get or lace the right rim.
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Old 10-02-2011, 08:14 PM   #17
sailah OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanjoh View Post
What diameter is the rear axle?

Not sure how you're gonna get 4 sets of triples on the bike

No problem with the brake rotor on the wrong side, just flip the wheel around. I did this on my dirt ninja with a ktm rear wheel n cush drive.
Pretty sure it's 20, but haven't measured.

I'll work on getting 4 sets, jeebus it took me all day to make a part to adapt the KTM bearings. Then I cut it 0.5mm undersized. Break out the welder, bring it back up, turn it back down

I had flipped the ATK wheel around, but it had a lot of issues. The final straw was seeing a nice crack in the side. Its in the junk pile now.

I'm seriously considering robbing the wheels off my FZ1 and relacing the front to my 21" excel hoop. The rear I could just buy a 2.5" rear rim and redo that. That would get me some really nice offroad rims. Hell, I could leave the front alone, I had woody build me that with a 1.85 excel which is close enough.

I've been wanting some better street rubber so I could buy a 19/17 setup from woodys and that would solve all the issues.

Now I do get to take credit for not spending money on this project, I'll chock up the woodys wheelset on the FZ1's tab

But it really would be ideal to have 2 sets of wheels that are interchangeable and sized for the same bikes. Need to see if it's in the budget.
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Old 10-02-2011, 08:17 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadracer_Al View Post
DR 650 rear wheels have cush drive and a decent sized brake rotor. Heavy like Roseanne Barr, tho.

I scored one for $250 locally, and it even has a 18" rim on it instead of the stock 17" rim. For bigger, more powerful bikes, especially these Frankenstein things I seem to like, they are IMHO an ideal wheel if you get or lace the right rim.

I have one. It weighs a shitload. And for the money people want for one, I'd rather spend a little extra and get a stock KTM hub. Or a RAD.

Stop it, stop it!!!!! No spending money. Those RAD hubs anodized would be bitchin though.

Stop it.

Al, you can't post in this thread anymore. You're a bad influence you get the mind thinking bad thoughts.

What I really need to do is get all the moto parts I'm never going to use and ebay everything to pay for the build. That makes it easy to blow a wad on fun things like a new wheel set. Hell, I have a CR500 motor just sitting there...
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Old 10-03-2011, 05:34 AM   #19
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I had a frustrating day in the shop yesterday. First, those of you with young kids already know why it was frustrating. I got 10 minutes at a time down there.

I spent the first couple hours cleaning up. And yes, this is about as clean and spacious as it gets





I was leaning towards a 950 wheel set for the FZ setup 17/19 but then realized that the CBR will only be running one disc. Anyone have any ideas as to how that would work swapping wheels? Going from the dual to the single is easy, just have a unused disc sitting there. Putting the single on the Fz1 is probably going to be challenging. I don't really want to drop the disc on the FZ, it works well as is. Another thing to think about.

Maybe it's better to have completely different setups that don't swap. I'm trying to push getting street rubber on the FZ, but not to where I create a buncha headaches.

The ATK stuff won't do me, too bad it looks in nice shape. The forks are just too small to stuff heavy springs if you can even find them, the axle clamp is welded on both legs. Frame is mint though.





Here's what took me all day. Literally.

I machined up this bearing cup to first extend the height to match a KTM triple. It's not cut to finish yet as I want the unit in hand first. I just ballparked it off my other bike. It is stepped down to press fit into the CBR bearing race, and then flares out to 57mm OD with a 50.2ish ID. I'm still learning how all this press fit works etc in the real world so I work very slowly. I still managed to scrap an unbelievable amount of stock.



I also stupidly cut the bearing journal all the way down. I took it off the lathe admiring how nice it was and then hung my head when I realized what I did.

So I found another chunk and machined that down to make a spacer. I also need to recut that height when I get my bearings in hand.



Bracing the new heightened stem will be fairly simple, I plan on boxing it back to the frame and then joing those together. Will def be stout.

I also had to make a shim that want from a 55mmOD honda bottom bearing to a 50.25 KTM. Its not in there for good yet. I also screwed the pooch on this one too and cut it too small. Out came the tig welder to bring it back up, then recut inside and out.

I really want to use this old skool WP but I'm not. It looks rad, says solo shocker on it



The UPS guy is going to love me this week, I have 4 triples, 3 front ends, 2+ shocks, GSXR rotors, hayabusa calipers, YZ450 parts arriving. If anyone has any other wacky ass parts you think could work, send me a freebie from another bike/make and I'll see how many brands I can strap on to this mutt.
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Old 10-03-2011, 06:37 AM   #20
sanjoh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailah View Post
Pretty sure it's 20, but haven't measured.
LAte 90s/early 2k KTM LC4 is the way to go for the rear wheel.

Why not keep the stock wheels for sumo/street duty?

I wouldn't recommend grabbing parts off your FZ, otherwise you'll end up with 2 piles of parts

Something to be said about a bike that runs and you can actually ride
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Old 10-03-2011, 09:58 AM   #21
Roadracer_Al
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Sailah, I'm just going to decline to acquiesce to your request.... Everyone needs a bad influence. I guess my 4th grade teacher was right - she said I wasn't completely useless, that I could be used as a bad example. That hurt my feelings a bit at the time, but now I embrace it.

Sanjoh: Amen to that -- I'm notorious for having unfinished projects. Don't pirate the Yamaha!

May I make a suggestion: Don't weld the steering head extension on the top, weld it on the bottom - that will give you more ground clearance. You will want to add some sheet metal braces where it extends past the original frame, however.
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Old 10-04-2011, 07:37 PM   #22
sailah OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadracer_Al View Post

May I make a suggestion: Don't weld the steering head extension on the top, weld it on the bottom - that will give you more ground clearance. You will want to add some sheet metal braces where it extends past the original frame, however.
I thought about that but not sure how tall I want this bike. I have a set of forks (or three) arriving shortly so I can decide whether or not I want it top or bottom. Good point I really hadn't considered increasing ground clearance. Just based on my other bike which has less travel, I really don't need it any taller. Regardless I will def stiffen up the head.

Okay so some parts arrived.

I got a swingarm and shock from a KTM. I was almost certain I wasn't going to use the swingarm, but figured hey why not see what it looks like. It has the same diameter pivot bolt so that's a plus.



It is narrower than the CBR obviously but wider than the YZ I have. It is very close to the ideal length I want. Plus it fits the shock obviously. Lots of good points here.

So I put the rear wheel up to see how far off the chain is. Not THAT bad. I put a chain on the sprockets to check alignment and shoved the wheel all the way over to the left.



Right now the swingarm is centered. The wheel is offset all the way to the left. I have plenty of clearance with the sprocket/swingarm interface. What I will need to do is space the sprocket about 1/2" out. It will keep the alignment above but recenter the wheel.



You can see in this pic the wheel is offset but with a sprocket spacer should be pretty damn close. I can also maybe trim off a little of the counter sprocket to move the sprocket closer to the cases if needed. But not a lot of room in there.





I'll need to make spacers for the swingarm sides and middle. Or I may weld the side spacers to the frame which should be stronger than the side spacers which I'm not wild about. But I'll start with removable ones if I decide that the KTM is the wrong swingarm.



All and all I'm very pleased so far with how things are narrowing down on parts. I hope this setup works as it will eliminate a bunch of potential conflicts. It also simplifies the rear wheel and brake setup as I just need to buy a KTM rear wheel and brake. Also make a sumo setup now just a straight order vs custom as the front is going to def by a KTM setup.

Any thoughts or comments?

I spoke to a nice guy at FasterUSA about wheels today. He was advising def to run a cush drive with the amount of power I have. I tend to agree. But I do want to see what this will do with a reg. dirt setup before I invest a chunk in a RAD billet cush hub. The idea of saving the tranny is crazy, a RAD costs more than a CBR motor But I do understand his point and it makes total sense. If I can swing this bike together with an eye on the budget, I'll spring for a full set of wheels.

I have an order in for a 09 KTM shock I wonder if it will fit this swingarm? Anyone know? The swingarm is an 05 450EXC I think.
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Old 10-05-2011, 01:59 AM   #23
LukasM
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Don't worry about the space Peter, if you get a bigger garage it will just get cluttered up with more parts and tools. I also strongly recommend keeping the FZ1 in one piece, having too many projects and no rideable bikes sucks. I speak from experience on both counts.

08-10 shock (and even 2011 EXC-R) will fit the swingarm no problem. They are 10mm longer and the valving is a bit different than the earlier ones, as KTM relocated the shock mounts to make the travel more progressive. They do take a lighter spring, but even so I am not sure if the rates available will be sufficient for your bike? How are you going to reduce travel?

Other than that using the matching KTM wheel, swingarm and shock combo seems like a winner to me.
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Old 10-05-2011, 05:28 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LukasM View Post

08-10 shock (and even 2011 EXC-R) will fit the swingarm no problem. They are 10mm longer and the valving is a bit different than the earlier ones, as KTM relocated the shock mounts to make the travel more progressive. They do take a lighter spring, but even so I am not sure if the rates available will be sufficient for your bike? How are you going to reduce travel?

Other than that using the matching KTM wheel, swingarm and shock combo seems like a winner to me.
Lukas, you never answered my PM, so I'm calling you out here, how's the project going? Any pics?

I used to have a 5 car garage... but my wife wanted to live in the city

I will def be using the newer shock. I'm sure I can find a spring that will be close. The target for this bike is around 350-375. Stock the bike is 390 and I have lost a substantial amount of weight from the subframe, swingarm, tank, plastics, wheels. Prob gained some back in the front end but not as much as you would think. CBR had cast steel triples etc.

I'm not sure I understand why I would be reducing travel? I plan to run a 48 fork up front which is what 300mm travel? I plan on trying to get a similar amount out of the rear, maybe less.

As with the last bike, I will set the rake of the front end to duplicate a Super Enduro and then burn in the rear shock to keep that rake at static height. I'll need to cycle the shock and swingarm together to ensure that the ratio provides the right amount of travel. Or take some measurements off a KTM to get the shock angle etc. This is not going to be a competition bike so I'm not worried about the last 2%. In fact the other bike I did is unbelievable in terms of handling and performance. I essentially am going to replicate that. But this bike will be more of an offroad toy vs the FZ1 which is basically like a 950 on steroids.

If you haven't noticed by now, I just do things. It might not be correct, but I'll deal with the consequences when they come. I'm not cavalier about major safety items, but I ask the counsel of members here and vendors about their opinions, sift through what makes sense, and then do it. If I screw up the bike, so what. I paid $400 for it and the parts I can easily flip.

I can say with complete honesty that I truly enjoy these builds as much as I do riding them. I love driving in my car all day thinking through how I'm going to do this or that, so when I come home and the family is asleep, I can go make it happen in the garage.

I will def take more time on this build than the other. What bit me on that was lack of time. This bike just needs to be ready for next spring, so I have a much more ambitious gameplan involving carbon fiber, tube alum subframe, underseat tank etc.

Stay tuned.
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Old 10-05-2011, 07:07 AM   #25
Mr. Vintage
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Another cool project! But shouldn't your location be "making metal shavings in my shop"??
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Old 10-05-2011, 08:50 AM   #26
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Wink

Yeah I guess. I have always had the same avatar and location. I like continuity.

I used to be a professional woodworker so I like d that line. I sold all my machinery when I got into metal working. It's way more interesting to me.
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Old 10-05-2011, 04:01 PM   #27
sailah OP
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new arrivals:

Arrow racing cans from a Duc. There is a rock or something in each one rattling around. Plus they are pretty long. I will cut one open and see if I can easily shorten it. and get the rock out.





I love this pic, sad that it's only half of the total.



I'm going to have to rethink the stem. The EXC stem is a lot shorter than I thought. I may not need that extension after all. Or maybe can use the original one I made. Oh that's right I scrapped it.
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Old 10-06-2011, 04:45 AM   #28
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This one looks like fun too. How is your new welder working out? I'm a few stages behind you having just bought a chinese inverter like the one you had.

I don't have the guts to chop the subframe off my mutant ninja yet but I'm looking at an old fireblade down the street for a possible project.

I wish I could get up to PB some time to hang out and raid your aluminum pile.
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Old 10-06-2011, 05:02 AM   #29
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This one looks like fun too. How is your new welder working out? I'm a few stages behind you having just bought a chinese inverter like the one you had.

I don't have the guts to chop the subframe off my mutant ninja yet but I'm looking at an old fireblade down the street for a possible project.

I wish I could get up to PB some time to hang out and raid your aluminum pile.

Yo dent,

The new welder is very nice. It's not light years ahead of the old one, but more subtle features. First, it doesn't feel like a chicom machine. It has pulse, which my old one didn't. The biggest thing is that my my old one had 100% of the amps available at the pedal at all times. In other words, the Lincoln you set the amps at say 100. Well the pedal now goes from 0-100, instead of 0-200 like the old one. Allows a little more finesse as you are sneaking up on the end of a weld and need to back off the heat.

Don't be scared about chopping stuff off. The benefit is that now you are committed!! Plus it opens up so many options in terms of redoing suspension etc like on the fizzer. The front ends on our bikes are easy, it's ridding the bikes of the low travel swingarms and putting on dirt bike shocks that really make it complete. Although if you do a subframe chop, you are limited to straight tubes, unless you cut apart the old tubing and splice in bends. That's why I bought a tubing bender, works awesome.

For aluminum, I haven't gone to my buddies in awhile, although I need to raid it. I've been paying full pop at the aluminum distributer here. First I have plenty of little ends here and there and what I need are 20' sticks of 1" tube to build something out of and he's not scrapping that I think I paid $27 for that stick which seems reasonable to me. Plus they have a offcut bin that you can root through at $1.50/lb. That's where I got my aluminum for my bags, they had 4x4 sheets in there of all thicknesses. Check to see if your town has an aluminum warehouse or make friends with a sheet metal shop guy. End of the day, we really don't use very much tubing in our builds so even if you pay full price it's not too bad. The dumpster diving is nice to score that perforated stuff though.

Lemme know if you want a piece of that for a rad guard and I'll send you a chunk.

PS- get the fireblade

Pete
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Old 10-08-2011, 01:23 PM   #30
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I worked on the stem today and the triples. I'm trying to keep as much as I can from the parts I have so rather than buy conversion bearings for $50 (which subtracts from the wheelset), I decided to use the KTM bearings as I had already planned on using them.

I took a YZ450 stem, turned the lower race down to 29mm and then welded the crap out of it to build it up to turn down to 29. The YZ top race is 28mm. I discovered running that much bead would warp the stem.





I ended up using a dial indicator on the lathe and kept whacking it with a BFH on my drill press table until I got it really straight. Then turned it down to the correct dimensions.



Here's the YZ stem pressed into the KTM lower. The reason I did not use the KTM stem is that it is too short for the CBR head. I figured the opposite, but oh well, it was more lathe and welding practice.



Here's the finished stem in the bike.



Almost finished. I need to put the top bearing in so I can get a height measurement and cut this off. The KTM finish nut threads into the stem. I have never cut internal threads before...



I also cut apart one of the Arrow cans to figure out what the hell was rattling, it was a rivet. I also need to repack them, but hopefully it will be okay shortened. Might be a little loud
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