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Old 10-08-2011, 08:54 PM   #16
Pilgrim21784
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It will, IMO, be very difficult to do better than Motoport. Yes, their gear is not inexpensive (that is a relative statement for anyone familiar with Rukka or Halvarsson (two fine mfgrs.), or any race quality gear).

Highly protective gear costs serious cash, big surprise. If you want to ride in race quality leathers (with armor of course), I hope you like doing the maintenance quality leather requires.

I would be surprised if a competitive product can be produced with the same custom sizing, fit, and options that Motoport currently offers at a better price. They are exacting in their standards and will produce precisely what a customer requests. My order experience reminded me of my experience with a Brooks Brothers suit.

The issue of quality versus cost in motorcycle safety gear has bemused me since my introduction to the subject a few years ago. I remain amused why any rider would consider anything other than the ultimate protection available; skin, bones, joints -- are difficult (and expensive) to fix. The pain component can be for a lifetime.

I'm highly sensitive to injuries/hospitals/bodily damage, etc. - I got banged up a bit in Viet Nam with the Marine Corps. I spent almost 6 months in the hospital in Guam, about half of that in traction and a body cast. The medics originally said I'd be crippled for life, nine fractures in my spine, no left leg function and my ankle was a disaster. I beat the odds.

The discussion of protective gear is a subject I spent quite a bit of time researching. To each their own: for my money and safety - I own a custom Motoport Airmesh gear set. I believe it is the best protection my money can buy. I think it is ill advised to wear anything other than race quality gear on any ride, whether around the corner or cross country. Hospital stays are a real downer, trust me on that opinion. JMO

Pilgrim21784 screwed with this post 10-08-2011 at 09:33 PM
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Old 10-10-2011, 07:47 AM   #17
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Having seen what Teiz have accomplished with price vs quality in their existing products I am looking forward to seeing what they can accomplish with Kevlar clothing.

Keep up the good work
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Old 10-10-2011, 01:06 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilgrim21784 View Post
It will, IMO, be very difficult to do better than Motoport. Yes, their gear is not inexpensive (that is a relative statement for anyone familiar with Rukka or Halvarsson (two fine mfgrs.), or any race quality gear).

Highly protective gear costs serious cash, big surprise. If you want to ride in race quality leathers (with armor of course), I hope you like doing the maintenance quality leather requires.

I would be surprised if a competitive product can be produced with the same custom sizing, fit, and options that Motoport currently offers at a better price. They are exacting in their standards and will produce precisely what a customer requests. My order experience reminded me of my experience with a Brooks Brothers suit.

The issue of quality versus cost in motorcycle safety gear has bemused me since my introduction to the subject a few years ago. I remain amused why any rider would consider anything other than the ultimate protection available; skin, bones, joints -- are difficult (and expensive) to fix. The pain component can be for a lifetime.

I'm highly sensitive to injuries/hospitals/bodily damage, etc. - I got banged up a bit in Viet Nam with the Marine Corps. I spent almost 6 months in the hospital in Guam, about half of that in traction and a body cast. The medics originally said I'd be crippled for life, nine fractures in my spine, no left leg function and my ankle was a disaster. I beat the odds.

The discussion of protective gear is a subject I spent quite a bit of time researching. To each their own: for my money and safety - I own a custom Motoport Airmesh gear set. I believe it is the best protection my money can buy. I think it is ill advised to wear anything other than race quality gear on any ride, whether around the corner or cross country. Hospital stays are a real downer, trust me on that opinion. JMO
This. I want the best, not the best for the price. No war stories for me, but a propane explosion...

One amberlamps ride to the hospital and an overnight admission will be more expensive than the highest-end gear you can buy. Nevermind weeks in ICU.

The "cheap head/cheap helmet" joke doesn't stop at the neck.

I'm also looking forward to what Teiz can do with superior materials!
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Old 10-10-2011, 02:01 PM   #19
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I'd be very interested. I have a motoport suit, love the material, not a fan at all of motoport. Their cut, sizing, fit, design etc. is all rather terrible. Put some thought into it so it fits well (on the bike, in a riding position -- this is the bit motoport can't seem to comprehend) and isn't bulkier than it needs to be. Their armor also sucks, I much prefer a visoelastic type armor like aerostich uses (and many other).

Just for starters, legs and arms need to be pre-curved so that they fit best when a rider is in a riding position. On a kevlar suit (like my dual layer GPII), the material itself can be quite thick, this is fine in most places, but a real problem behind the knees and elbows, especially combined with the insufficient pre-curve of the suit. The material bunches up badly, making it uncomfortable to ride a sport bike while wearing the suit. There's no reason the back of the knee needs exactly the same amount and thickness of material as the front of the knee - the back of the knee should have fairly thin, stretchy stuff. The front thick, super-durable stuff. Same with the wrists, a wrist closure should allow the jacket to close snugly around a wrist without much extra bulk so full gauntlet gloves can be worn (motoport is too bulky, for that matter so are the leather jackets I got from you are a bit bulky in the wrist and hard to wear with gloves too).

How much I would spend really depends on the details. A suit with motoport-style materials and something approaching a good, clean, good-fitting design, quality zippers, etc would certainly catch my attention. I'd want a 2-piece suit with a 360 degree zipper. I'd would guess I'd pay something like $700-800, though less would always be great!

Motoport's armor is well placed, but thin and hard (their tri-armor, haven't seen their newer stuff) and won't absorb much of an impact. Armor needs to be thick to cushion a blow just like you need suspension travel to soak up a big hit.

FWIW your sport-cut leather-mesh jacket (I forgot the name) in medium fits me perfectly
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:04 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teizms View Post
... What can they live with and what they can live without - whats necessary and where can you compromise Were you considering this sort of gear and then dropped the idea ? Why - because of price? because of looks?
Hi
a) hi viz
b) water proof on the outside
c) no armor -- but pockets for it with adjustible straps
d) 3 piece design (if possible) where pieces are 'zipped' and strapped together -- to allow for functional '4 season' modular setup
e) would spend 400 usd for jacket and pants -- no armor option.
f) I do not know if possible, but some sort of antiseptic/antibacterial /refilable lining
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Old 10-10-2011, 04:09 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teizms View Post
I want to get an idea of what amount people want to spend on this sort of gear. What can they live with and what they can live without - whats necessary and where can you compromise Were you considering this sort of gear and then dropped the idea ? Why - because of price? because of looks?
As a potential customer, I can't refrain from wanting to pay as little as possible Can't say I thought of a price, but what would help everybody is to have the option of getting a discount for buying both jacket/pants, even if they're not bought at the same time- if you're already doing it then ignore.

With regards to 'compromising', that's the wrong way to start a conversation about kevlar products I'd think that people who own or would like to own such products are doing it in an effort to get the best fabric there is. Otherwise, plenty of choices out there. Hence this gear should carry a premium price just because you DON'T want to compromise on fabric, assembly, armour- and armour coverage, and warranty. And yes, it would be great if there was an option for T-Pro armour, I understand the cost issues, just saying that it would be great if one could buy your product knowing that everything is top-notch.

I have kevlar gear, not mesh, and as others have said, my main complaint is the bulkiness- the material itself is awesome, saved my ass couple times, once saved it big time.

My wife and I would be in the market for a 2-piece suit with 360 zipper, if the suit is not a compromise


.
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Old 10-10-2011, 06:35 PM   #22
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wow - great feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko View Post

With regards to 'compromising', that's the wrong way to start a conversation about kevlar products


.
lol yeah i dont think i worded that correctly. i just wanted to say gimme your priority list of features

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ko View Post

My wife and I would be in the market for a 2-piece suit with 360 zipper, if the suit is not a compromise

.
All our 2 piece stuff always has 2 sets of zippers, one 360 and one 8 inch so you can take your pick


Quote:
Originally Posted by BikePilot View Post

Just for starters, legs and arms need to be pre-curved so that they fit best when a rider is in a riding position. On a kevlar suit (like my dual layer GPII), the material itself can be quite thick, this is fine in most places, but a real problem behind the knees and elbows, especially combined with the insufficient pre-curve of the suit. The material bunches up badly, making it uncomfortable to ride a sport bike while wearing the suit. There's no reason the back of the knee needs exactly the same amount and thickness of material as the front of the knee - the back of the knee should have fairly thin, stretchy stuff. The front thick, super-durable stuff. Same with the wrists, a wrist closure should allow the jacket to close snugly around a wrist without much extra bulk so full gauntlet gloves can be worn (motoport is too bulky, for that matter so are the leather jackets I got from you are a bit bulky in the wrist and hard to wear with gloves too).
take a look at the new Diego updates - we have added fabric panels behind the blows and arms for added comfort then you are sitting on the bike. The updated cuffs on the new textile stuff works excellent too - much more comfortable and easier to work with.
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Old 10-11-2011, 07:19 AM   #23
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Do it.

I had considered suggesting this to you a couple of months ago.
You must have read my mind.
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:34 AM   #24
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picking this project up again as well. any kind of feedback is appreciated.
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:29 AM   #25
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Funny you should ask

I'm looking for some functional and protective riding gear. Here's my feedback:
  • Effective for 4 season use.
  • Not too tight, not too loose.
  • Waterproof/ windproof outer layer. No leakage. Having said that, I'm willing to wear a rain suit when needed over otherwise excellent riding gear.
  • Good ventilation capability with outer panels in place.
  • Removable outer panels on the jacket to expose lots of mesh for maximum ventilation.
  • Comfortable neck. If the neck is uncomfortable, its junk.
  • Smart design (comfortable and functional) sleeves at wrist with appropriate weather barriers, flaps and zips. Same opinion as for neck comfort. Sleeves need to work with a variety of glove styles.
  • Functional and durable zippers.
  • 2-way main zipper to enable opening from the bottom as another ventilation option.
  • Normal non-eye-searing color options. Hi viz and/ or reflective patches are good.
  • Light color options to reflect summer sun rays.
  • Ability to zip in a thermal layer.
  • Sufficient capacity inside pocket with closure for wallet, phone, passport. A separate (seldom accessed) chest security pocket for registration/ insurance and spare key. A couple of reasonably sized outer pockets with closures. No need to go crazy about the number of outside pockets.
  • Sufficiently long leg zips to enable easily donning and removing pants with boots on.
  • Adjustability for positioning knee armor so that it stays in the right place.
  • Waist adjustment to accommodate with or without other pants under the riding pants.
When will you have my set built?
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:44 AM   #26
teizms OP
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W-Gator View Post
I'm looking for some functional and protective riding gear. Here's my feedback:
  • Effective for 4 season use.
  • Not too tight, not too loose.
  • Waterproof/ windproof outer layer. No leakage. Having said that, I'm willing to wear a rain suit when needed over otherwise excellent riding gear.
  • Good ventilation capability with outer panels in place.
  • Removable outer panels on the jacket to expose lots of mesh for maximum ventilation.
  • Comfortable neck. If the neck is uncomfortable, its junk.
  • Smart design (comfortable and functional) sleeves at wrist with appropriate weather barriers, flaps and zips. Same opinion as for neck comfort. Sleeves need to work with a variety of glove styles.
  • Functional and durable zippers.
  • 2-way main zipper to enable opening from the bottom as another ventilation option.
  • Normal non-eye-searing color options. Hi viz and/ or reflective patches are good.
  • Light color options to reflect summer sun rays.
  • Ability to zip in a thermal layer.
  • Sufficient capacity inside pocket with closure for wallet, phone, passport. A separate (seldom accessed) chest security pocket for registration/ insurance and spare key. A couple of reasonably sized outer pockets with closures. No need to go crazy about the number of outside pockets.
  • Sufficiently long leg zips to enable easily donning and removing pants with boots on.
  • Adjustability for positioning knee armor so that it stays in the right place.
  • Waist adjustment to accommodate with or without other pants under the riding pants.
When will you have my set built?
put a price on it ;) what is all of that worth to you?

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Old 11-10-2012, 08:49 AM   #27
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I own Motoport's Kevlar stuff...

.... and it has preformed as advertised and the versatility is fantastic.

However, like many here, the suit makes me feel like I'm wearing a cardboard box - even after plenty of break in. I think the key to using this material is in "panels" - i.e. put kevlar in areas that receive a lot of air flow for the rider on any bike, and then sew it to your "superfabric" to give the garment some type of shape. Also because of the fit of my kevlar suit, I always feel like no matter how much I cinch it in place, it would still "twist" over my body in a crash. Perhaps having a more fitted suit would prevent that? I dunno.

I assume you won't be offering a liner either because I know you prefer over-suits.

KLIM will be introducing their version of a kevlar suit this year - but guaranteed their version will be too much dough for most. There is an opportunity here.

Speaking of, here's another opportunity - let me send my Motoport suit to you to tailor the garment to have some type of fit and shape to it. I tell you what, I volunteer my suit for prototyping - you just send back something cool for me to wear :)
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:37 AM   #28
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.... and it has preformed as advertised and the versatility is fantastic.

However, like many here, the suit makes me feel like I'm wearing a cardboard box - even after plenty of break in. I think the key to using this material is in "panels" - i.e. put kevlar in areas that receive a lot of air flow for the rider on any bike, and then sew it to your "superfabric" to give the garment some type of shape. Also because of the fit of my kevlar suit, I always feel like no matter how much I cinch it in place, it would still "twist" over my body in a crash. Perhaps having a more fitted suit would prevent that? I dunno.

I assume you won't be offering a liner either because I know you prefer over-suits.

KLIM will be introducing their version of a kevlar suit this year - but guaranteed their version will be too much dough for most. There is an opportunity here.

Speaking of, here's another opportunity - let me send my Motoport suit to you to tailor the garment to have some type of fit and shape to it. I tell you what, I volunteer my suit for prototyping - you just send back something cool for me to wear :)
2013 is the year of the Jackets & Pants. Our one-piece lineup is already very diverse and complete.

We currently offer thermal liners so that trend can continue for any future products. However, i don't think we will offer any waterproof liners as with our current high-end products. We encourage rain gear on top of your riding suit. With excellent options available for incredibly reasonable prices, we have not felt the need yet to introduce our own waterproof gear.

the comments about comfort are recurring - it will definitely handled.
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Old 11-10-2012, 02:19 PM   #29
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Here's my 2 cents. I have owned a Motoport mesh kevlar jacket. Mesh material feels bulletproof and vents wonderfully...but is very bulky, uncomfortable and harsh on anything around it (almost like wearing a suit made of emery paper). I had the pleasure to try on a pair of the stretch kevlar pants this summer, thanks to Levain, and the material felt great! Soft, stretchy, and yet still kevlar.

As far as features, I would like the option of a good fitting (key here) over-pant of stretch kevlar. Simple solid colours, with some tastefully placed reflective. No stripes, banners, splashes, checkered flags, etc please.

I also agree with comments BikePilot made about armour. I like the larger, softer/comfortable armour like Aerostich uses. I have seen some of the newer high tech stuff such as Klim uses, the trouble is they are tiny and the odds of me actually landing on that postage stamp sized pad is slim to none, particularly when used in a moderately loose fitting garment. This is something that Halvarrsons have done well with the safety suit concept, as the armour is firmly planted to your body.

How about an armour system within a comfortable, moderately loose (not a potato sack Motoport style PLEASE) with armour that can be cinched to the body? Some sort of internal baffle arrangement maybe? With an easily released function for easy on and off?

So basically what I want is something that fits like my Darien pants, with an armour system like Forcefield's Pro Pants, only integrated into a single garment that can still be put on and taken off with the ease of the Dariens. Stretch Kevlar, fitted and available in Tall sizes. If it could be waterproof and breathable, that would be a bonus.

Not asking much I'd gladly pay $300 for such a garment...hopefully before spring
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Old 11-10-2012, 02:28 PM   #30
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Here's my 2 cents. ....
So basically what I want is something that fits like my Darien pants, with an armour system like Forcefield's Pro Pants, only integrated into a single garment that can still be put on and taken off with the ease of the Dariens. Stretch Kevlar, fitted and available in Tall sizes. If it could be waterproof and breathable, that would be a bonus.

Not asking much I'd gladly pay $300 for such a garment...hopefully before spring
book two for me
any type of kevlar pants would definitly b $300+
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