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Old 10-25-2011, 01:32 PM   #241
lonerockz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
What's anyone think? Have Triumph over extended themselves releasing a bike of major importance to their future so soon after releasing the Tiger 800's?

Do they think they can match what BMW have taken 30 years to achieve ... in just one year?
Could they be spreading themselves too thin here?

It seems to me Triumph still have a lot of work to do on the new 800's. They are very good ... but far from perfect. Soon BMW will be coming along with a newly revised F800GS that could be Bad News for Triumph and 800XC sales. Thoughts?

Releasing this new 1200 now, IMHO, is a mistake. The market is not there, at least not to the extent needed to make a profit on this bike. I'd guess is it will retail around $14K to $16K USD (MSRP).

We are about to enter into our second "dip" in a recession .... world wide event. Luxury bikes have survived the first recession pretty well but for how much longer? How much weaker can the Motorcycle market get?

This has to be a major expense for Triumph. And a risk. Can they afford to have this bike fail? Or have it's release split interest between their two Adventure bikes ... possibly diluting sales from both?
I think you raise some really good points here, but ultimately I think this is a prefect time for the launch of the bike. Clearly they have already spent the money to develop it so that's a sunk cost. Launching it on the heels of the very successful launch of the 800 seems like a good idea. Sure there were a few small issues with the 800, but the bikes owners are ecstatic, so time to capitalize on the noise. You say they are need more work, and they are far from perfect. Well if they were perfect then there would be no need for the 1200 . But the market is buying them like hotcakes so apparently there are a few people that feel they are perfect enough. Sure the 1200 will not sell as well as the 800, but its a more expensive product so sales will naturally be lower.


On top of that I think Triumph really does read this and other forums (if you need a good IT guy that loves bikes give me a call) and they know that BMW has really stumbled with addressing the quality issues on the R1200GS. I know many a former R1200 owner that says never again. So there is space in the market.

On top of that they will be late to the 1200 ADV party if they don't launch soon. Honda will launch this year, the BMW water buffalo will launch next year (+- 6 months), so better to be early than late.

As someone that has vowed to never again have his primary bike be a chain driven bike, I am very happy to see this as an option. And for me this bike looks as close to perfect (as long as fuel tank is 6+, or better yet 9+) as is currently available. I am really happy to see that Cruise Control is going to be on this bike. Lets face it I ride a ton of super slab to get anywhere, making that easier is fantastic.
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Old 10-25-2011, 01:37 PM   #242
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Do you guys really care what the service interval is? I used to think about it with my RT and doing the valves every 6000 miles but quit worrying about it because it was easy on the RT. I'm not a high mileage rider, average 10,000 miles a year but that's spread over a few bikes so I'm lucky if I have to do the valves on a bike in year, closer to every 2 years, so who cares. It's a couple hours or a couple hundred bucks every year or two. Just not a consideration for me any more.
You must be better at checking them than I am or have cheaper mechanics where you live . More like 4 hours or $300 around here.

I care when it is on a bike that is harder to check than the BMW R. At 14-16,000 a year doing it twice a year is a real pain. Especially if you have to do things like pull the tank to get it done.
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Old 10-25-2011, 01:51 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by CA Stu View Post
I've got the "off road" pipe (and matching tune) on mine and there's no way in hell I'll ever see 200 miles from a tank. 180, total max.
My low fuel light is on at 140.

I ran out of gas once outside Gallup, NM with 11 miles showing on the fuel gauge countdown

I don't see the point to the 1200 unless it is a replacement for the 1050, in other words, a road bike with a conventional seating position with no pretense of offroad-ablilty.

Edit: Holy rapid fire posting!
As mentioned by Lobby: 1200 Tiger = Sport Tourer in ADV guise. This is a good move, but the market is very crowded ... and very weak ATM. I hope Triumph can make it work.

1050 Tiger
my fuel light comes on early sometimes too ... but I've gone over 50 miles into the count down after it hits Zero! I've never run out yet. Up in Oregon and Idaho I think the Ethanol fuel helped MPG some. On highway I'm taking it pretty easy ... steady throttle, moderate speeds. I've gone over 200 several times but usually fill up around 180. No idea what Tune I've got ... but I think it's a conservative one.

Adv Grifter screwed with this post 10-25-2011 at 09:52 PM
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Old 10-25-2011, 02:30 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by Dr. Greg View Post
And it has CRUISE CONTROL! The one feature (very useful for those of us in the western USA) I wish Ducati had put on the Multistrada 1200.

Anybody interested in a fairly well-kept MTS1200S?

--Doc
I was until news of this came out. I have even contemplated asking you to let me know first if you decided to sell the Multistrada. I'm now thinking the family may get to know a 4th Tiger this spring.
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Old 10-25-2011, 02:37 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by lonerockz View Post
You must be better at checking them than I am or have cheaper mechanics where you live . More like 4 hours or $300 around here.

I care when it is on a bike that is harder to check than the BMW R. At 14-16,000 a year doing it twice a year is a real pain. Especially if you have to do things like pull the tank to get it done.
I'll give you the 4 hours. It actually took me closer to 6 or 7 hours on my Honda CBF, but that was the first 4 cyl shim under bucket bike I'd ever done. I had several valves out of spec so had to pull the cams and I was taking lots of pics for a how-to. Now that I've had the bike apart and learned where everything goes etc. I could do a simple check in a couple hours.

With your mileage, yeah it would be a concern, for me not so much. I loved the hydraulic lifters on my meanstreak, maintenance on that bike meant mainly oil changes that's it. None of these "Adventure" bikes are stressed and typically have de-tuned/retuned motors, it sure would be nice to see one come out with a reliable shaft drive and hydraulic lifters and you'd then have a very low maintenance bike. I shoulda bought a Uly when I had the chance.
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Old 10-25-2011, 02:54 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
As mentioned by Lobby: 1200 Tiger = Sport Tourer in ADV guise.
It's got wheel sizes to take knobbies and ground clearance. At risk of creating animosity... how is the S10 or GS1200 any more ADV ready than this? It could be argued that they are all Sport Tourers in ADV guises.

To me, one of the major differences between sport tourer and adventure tourer is front wheel size. 17" = only street. 19" = adventure possibilities.


Quote:
Do you guys really care what the service interval is?
It's a huge priority of mine. I put 10-15k miles on a single bike every year. I suck up the fact that I eat through tires, and oil changes are acceptable as well, but anything additional is... well... unfavorable.
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Old 10-25-2011, 03:00 PM   #247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bross View Post
Do you guys really care what the service interval is? I used to think about it with my RT and doing the valves every 6000 miles but quit worrying about it because it was easy on the RT. I'm not a high mileage rider, average 10,000 miles a year but that's spread over a few bikes so I'm lucky if I have to do the valves on a bike in year, closer to every 2 years, so who cares. It's a couple hours or a couple hundred bucks every year or two. Just not a consideration for me any more.
I pretty much ride year round and use my bike to commute so the longer between intervals the better for me. Shim under/over bucket takes some time to do it correct I don't rush it and take my time over a couple days. Now if its a pushrod or tappet adjustment thats differant and can be done without tearing half the bike apart.
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Old 10-25-2011, 03:45 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by Mikef5000 View Post
It's a huge priority of mine. I put 10-15k miles on a single bike every year. I suck up the fact that I eat through tires, and oil changes are acceptable as well, but anything additional is... well... unfavorable.
If I put that kind of mileage on it probably would be for me as well. Now that I'm not commuting and pretty much a recreational rider I just don't put that many miles on. As I said, it's split between bikes as well so that almost doubles my maintenance intervals. I currently ride a Honda CBF and DR650 but keep thinking that either the Super Tenere or Tiger 800, now Tiger Explorer as well could almost replace my two bikes with just one. It would sure eliminate the problem of deciding which bike to ride.
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Old 10-25-2011, 04:15 PM   #249
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ECB is about to be unleashed to create euros like tortillas in Tejas... just one hiccup more from Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal and the constraints fall. if this bike is 20K euros at todays values it will be 30K equivalent, and in a recession, as you say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
What's anyone think? Have Triumph over extended themselves releasing a bike of major importance to their future so soon after releasing the Tiger 800's?

Do they think they can match what BMW have taken 30 years to achieve ... in just one year?
Could they be spreading themselves too thin here?

It seems to me Triumph still have a lot of work to do on the new 800's. They are very good ... but far from perfect. Soon BMW will be coming along with a newly revised F800GS that could be Bad News for Triumph and 800XC sales. Thoughts?

Releasing this new 1200 now, IMHO, is a mistake. The market is not there, at least not to the extent needed to make a profit on this bike. I'd guess is it will retail around $14K to $16K USD (MSRP).

We are about to enter into our second "dip" in a recession .... world wide event. Luxury bikes have survived the first recession pretty well but for how much longer? How much weaker can the Motorcycle market get?

This has to be a major expense for Triumph. And a risk. Can they afford to have this bike fail? Or have it's release split interest between their two Adventure bikes ... possibly diluting sales from both?
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Old 10-25-2011, 04:19 PM   #250
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Thumb Steve McQueen / Jack Pine?

re: the McQueen steed, wonder if it borrowed from this:

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Old 10-25-2011, 04:44 PM   #251
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Triumphs on a roll, the teething issues with the 800's have been relatively minimal and overall they've boosted the brand and adv segment quite strongly. The worst thing to do in troubled times, is to worry and wring one's hands. Thank God John Bloor isn't taking that approach and I'd like to think he's smarter than most of us, in regards to his business sense anyways...

Without the silly marketing campaign of Tigger 800's, this thread has been if anything, upbeat and happy and rightfully so. This cleverly marketed / designed 1200 Tiger, is going to ring the bells for a lot of people ! A spirited shaft driven "roadie" adv bike, yet fitted with a 19" wheel instead of 17", switchable ABS, no desmodromics for those concerned about maintenance costs , and finally a bloody cruise control for the touring types.

Fucking yeehah ! It's all coming up roses guys and gals, and that still leaves the new from the ground up, GS Wet Head for the BMW fans and a remodeled VFR1200 ADV type, just to confuse / excite us further.

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Old 10-25-2011, 04:48 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
As mentioned by Lobby: 1200 Tiger = Sport Tourer in ADV guise. This is a good move, but the market is very crowded ... and very weak ATM. I hope Triumph can make it work..
They will sell enough in Europe alone to make it viable. The 1200GS/ADV has ruled the roost in the UK, Germany, and Italy for a long time. Istr the model makes up 60% of all BMW sales. The S10, DL1000, Stelvio, and MS1200 are small change, relatively speaking.

Triumph only need to capture 10-20% of the big GS market to make it work, just as BMW captured 10-20% of the litre sports market with the S1000RR.
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Old 10-25-2011, 06:13 PM   #253
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They will sell enough in Europe alone to make it viable. The 1200GS/ADV has ruled the roost in the UK, Germany, and Italy for a long time. Istr the model makes up 60% of all BMW sales. The S10, DL1000, Stelvio, and MS1200 are small change, relatively speaking.

Triumph only need to capture 10-20% of the big GS market to make it work, just as BMW captured 10-20% of the litre sports market with the S1000RR.
Nothing against BMW but I'm sure (and you can bet John Bloor is too) that there are a lot of wana be and serious ADVers out there that don't want the GS for any number of reasons that would welcome Triumph's interpretation of the big trailie. Just look at the 800XC, Triumph put out a great product and the people have resoundingly responded. I'm sure they've learned a few things with it and the Explorer will be even better. I can't wait to ride the thing!!! Right ON John Bloor!!!
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Old 10-25-2011, 06:52 PM   #254
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Looks like a potential winner. I ride a GS but I'm always open to something new. Extra fuel would be a nice bonus as well as a factory cruise control. Engine performance will have to be lively with the new water-cooled GS on the horizon. We'll see if they've tamed the vibration issues of the 800......
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Old 10-25-2011, 06:55 PM   #255
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Looks like a potential winner. I ride a GS but I'm always open to something new. Extra fuel would be a nice bonus as well as a factory cruise control. Engine performance will have to be lively with the new water-cooled GS on the horizon. We'll see if they've tamed the vibration issues of the 800......
Is that the 1% of bikes like the S10, or are we talking 2% and all running around with our hands in the air.

After a certain other brands history, why is anyone complaining?
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