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Old 11-22-2011, 02:36 PM   #61
Bain Dramage
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I like my BMW R 1200 RT, and I really like the GSA, but if I were looking for a large Dual Sport, I would look long and hard at the Tenere.

Even if the Tenere isn't better in the ______ category (fill in the blank), I would be asking myself if the difference is worth the cost when compared to a competitor.

Like if I could get a Honda Accord for $24,000 and an identically equipped Toyota Camry for $18,000 then gee - I would have ot ask myself if the accord is really worth - to me - the extrra $$$.

Maybe it would be - and maybe it wouldn't. As others have said, it's a personal decision.
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Old 11-22-2011, 03:00 PM   #62
markjenn
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Originally Posted by roarin calhoun View Post
Specifics. I'd like to read detailed evaluations of why the GS is better on dirt than the Tenere.
Read the article. How much more specific do you need? As well, this is the 2nd comprehensive comparison test that says the GS is better off pavement - the other was the very comprehesive (and I thought accurate) comparison in motorcycle-usa.com:

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/12/110...-Shootout.aspx

The S10 has its strong points and I own one, but its drawbacks in the dirt (principally weight) have been well-documented in almost every road test that have been published. To continue to think that these comments are not well-grounded or specific enough is just sticking your head in the sand.

- Mark
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Old 11-22-2011, 03:29 PM   #63
GrahamD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
Read the article. How much more specific do you need? As well, this is the 2nd comprehensive comparison test that says the GS is better off pavement - the other was the very comprehesive (and I thought accurate) comparison in motorcycle-usa.com:

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/12/110...-Shootout.aspx

The S10 has its strong points and I own one, but its drawbacks in the dirt (principally weight) have been well-documented in almost every road test that have been published. To continue to think that these comments are not well-grounded or specific enough is just sticking your head in the sand.

- Mark
But on the other hand you have owners who previously owned the other bike who say the opposite.
You also have the Two Wheels SA, Australian, Italian reviewers that say the opposite.

I might go as far as saying that the GS might do better because it may not have the same freak out effect for some people because it is 10% lighter and 20% lighter according to the marketing.

Thirdly a few reviwers from the dirt bike world think it is just fine and dandy, Maybe they just understand why you get over the front of the bike in some situations and get over the back in others.

Maybe they are so close as to be a non event.

So if they all have their collective heads in the sand, then fine.

Maybe the bikes are different and some prefer it and others don't? But in the dirt, either of then are probably going to smoked by the big KTM anyway.

Plenty of owners and reviewers seem to agree on that one. It seems to be the most consistent outcome.
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Old 11-22-2011, 03:45 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by GrahamD View Post
But on the other hand you have owners who previously owned the other bike who say the opposite.
You also have the Two Wheels SA, Australian, Italian reviewers that say the opposite.

I might go as far as saying that the GS might do better because it may not have the same freak out effect for some people because it is 10% lighter and 20% lighter according to the marketing.

Thirdly a few reviwers from the dirt bike world think it is just fine and dandy, Maybe they just understand why you get over the front of the bike in some situations and get over the back in others.

Maybe they are so close as to be a non event.

So if they all have their collective heads in the sand, then fine.

Maybe the bikes are different and some prefer it and others don't? But in the dirt, either of then are probably going to smoked by the big KTM anyway.

Plenty of owners and reviewers seem to agree on that one. It seems to be the most consistent outcome.
Not everyone is going to agree on something as subjective as "handling in the dirt", that's a given. I was just commenting that characterizing the criticisms as not being specific or well-grounded doesn't hold water - if anything, the publications and reviewers who have rated the S10 inferior to the GS in the dirt are in a much better position to offer an objective judgement - they own neither and are riding the bikes back-to-back.

As a general statement, I do think some S10 owners need to get their heads out of the sand about their bikes. It's a good bike, but has significant shortcomings, as do all the entrants in the segment.

- Mark
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Old 11-22-2011, 03:46 PM   #65
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I believe the fact that the ABS works in the gravel/dirt on the S10, that his alone should make you a better rider. I know nothing of the GS, but I have heard stories and people even with the new ones turn off their ABS before going offroad, so I guess the ABS still is no good on the dirt.
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Old 11-22-2011, 03:51 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bain Dramage View Post
Even if the Tenere isn't better in the ______ category (fill in the blank), I would be asking myself if the difference is worth the cost when compared to a competitor.
Who are you and what have you done with Rick West?
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Old 11-22-2011, 04:02 PM   #67
Animo
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It appears the majority of "articles" rate the GS in a better light than the Tenere. I'm not surprised. The GS has been around for years and many "testers" are very familiar with the GS.

The Tenere has only been ridden for a couple of years Worldwide and for only a few months in the US. It is always easier to boast what you know than what you think you know.

You will find that pattern on every single post on ADV in regards to the Tenere. "I just bought my S10 and after X miles I love it". "I have just ridden my S10 for X miles and it is the most comfortable bike I have ever owned". "I thought hard and considered it all, but now that I have ridden the S10 for X months? I love it". "After X miles the vibration is gone and the S10 is pure honey juice..." and on it goes. The X miles factor, it is a new design, it is a new bike. It is a big dirt bike, but yes, it is big and heavy.

Folks, there is no "better", they both work just fine for what they were designed for. They are heavy bikes, they are 1,200d's and they do not come in a light model. If you want to play in the sandbox buy something lighter. If you play in mud get something more suitable CC/weight wise.

But if you travel heavy, in a combination of pavement, dirt roads, pot holes from hell, speed bumps, windblown sand over pavement, slippery gravel, two up, in rain and did I say travel heavy? The S10 wins for me.

It just takes X miles to realize that.
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Old 11-22-2011, 04:18 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Supa12 Pilot View Post

It just takes X miles to realize that.
I just posted this over on http://www.yamahasupertenere.com

Looking back at my first 4000 miles I can only say, the last 100 miles have been more pleasurable than the first 100 miles. This bike just keeps getting better. It begs to be ridden and has yet to disappoint, regardless off or on road!
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Old 11-22-2011, 04:57 PM   #69
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There are real differences such as what Graham and Mark refer to, but the differences are mostly in flavor and feel. The two bikes are as different in feel as a BMW car and a Lexus. But like the cars, both are so darned capable that it's up to the individual.

Feel free to declare a winner, when they are this close there will still be a lot of people who prefer the other great machine.



There is one aspect that I haven't seen people bring up and it has to do with all the accessories that make the machines fit us as individuals. I may have the Yamaha, but I sure do like that there are more accessories available at reduced cost on the used market for the Beemer. The GS has been around for a long time and I recently saw a $250 Craigslist sale of a set of stock side bags for a GS that only needed a lock set.
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Old 11-22-2011, 07:50 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Podman View Post
Oh and here's a bike that beats the S10 hands down

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v...G6tw&vq=medium

That is the most awesome video I have seen EVER. Unfortunately I feel like the most inept rider of all time. I no longer want to hear your guys complaining about the lenght of travel or quality of your suspension...This guys has exactly 0.00" of travel on his and is taking 12' drops backwards!!!

I sve this to favorites...Thanks for sharing.
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Old 11-22-2011, 07:56 PM   #71
markjenn
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Originally Posted by llamapacker View Post
I believe the fact that the ABS works in the gravel/dirt on the S10, that his alone should make you a better rider. I know nothing of the GS, but I have heard stories and people even with the new ones turn off their ABS before going offroad, so I guess the ABS still is no good on the dirt.
I do think the S10's ABS is a little better in the dirt which is in its favor, but OTOH, the GS has an ABS off switch which tilts things back the other way. I'm not a believer that the S10 ABS is so good that there aren't some situations where you want it off. Likewise, the GS system is not so bad you always need to turn it off.

- Mark
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:22 PM   #72
roarin calhoun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
Read the article. How much more specific do you need? As well, this is the 2nd comprehensive comparison test that says the GS is better off pavement - the other was the very comprehesive (and I thought accurate) comparison in motorcycle-usa.com:

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/12/110...-Shootout.aspx

The S10 has its strong points and I own one, but its drawbacks in the dirt (principally weight) have been well-documented in almost every road test that have been published. To continue to think that these comments are not well-grounded or specific enough is just sticking your head in the sand.

- Mark
My head in the sand,you say? My head's been where it should be ,between my crotch & the moon . My Tenere's tires been in the sand...mud....snow.....rock gardens....steeps...etc. What is this ,a library? I hardly ever look at stinkie linkies posted on blogs bacause so many of'm are goofy,to put it mildly. My point was simply that I'd rather these commentors declaring the GS better in dirt than the S10 would include SPECIFICS(I have included some specifics regarding my experience with these 2 bikes in earlier posts ). In what way is the S10 inferior ? Post it. All I asked for. I had a GS12 & now a Tenere & have ridden both in my same haunts in the mountains (& some desert) in the US west. More I ride the Tenere the more I feel it's every bit the equal of the GS in dirt ,the traction control & suspension might make it better.And it doesn't break. No small thing,that...esp compared to the 2 new BMW's I had.Warranty City,both of'em.
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:38 PM   #73
markjenn
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Originally Posted by roarin calhoun View Post
I hardly ever look at stinkie linkies posted on blogs ....My point was simply that I'd rather these commentors declaring the GS better in dirt than the S10 would include SPECIFICS.
Have you actually followed the "stinkie linkies" and read either MCN or Motorcycle-USA tests?

- Mark
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Old 11-22-2011, 09:00 PM   #74
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Hmmm,
look forward to reading that MCN article...I wonder if Dave S. and Scott R. views differ since they are more street and dirt oriented, respectively. Usually my views fall more in line with Dave's (since i don't have a lot of dirt experience).

I hope they include the S10, GS, and the new Tiger(s) in their annual ADV-tour comparo they usually do in May. I found their previous comparisons were excellent.
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Old 11-22-2011, 09:09 PM   #75
roarin calhoun
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Originally Posted by markjenn View Post
Have you actually followed the "stinkie linkies" and read either MCN or Motorcycle-USA tests?

- Mark
Heck no I haven't. I read books mostly,not mags. The response I made which you determined to be evidence of my"head in the sand" was to posts by one Podman who declared he saw where the GS was superior to the S10 in dirt.He gave no specifics & offered NO stinkie linkie(at least any I saw.If I missed one,my badd). Seems to me if you're going to declare something on a blog, support it. Unsupported assertion is troll gruel. WHY is the GS better in dirt than the S10. ALL my opinions on the subject are formed from hands-on experience in the Rocky Mountains with BOTH bikes(nearest magazine stand is over 100 miles away). My opinions can be wrong,often are(I have witnesses)that's why I'd like some SPECIFICS posted on here so they can be discussed. That is all. Til somebody shows me why I'm wrong,I think the Tenere is at least the equal of the GS on dirt.At least. One thing about jap bikes vs BMWs I've seen stated is BMWs have character while jap bikes often seem "neutral". I experienced that sensation once between a new RT & a new ST1100. I bought the RT. Big mistake. After I corrected it & got the ST it dawned on me that "neutral" is competence, "characater" ain't"--my view only. I could be wrong. WHAT is it the magazine scribblers claim is better about the GS in dirt than the S10? Just askin.
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