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Old 12-05-2011, 11:03 AM   #46
AteamNM
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Brewtus, it takes a fat ass to know a fat ass; don't forget the other mother thing. Blame it on genes or beer.....
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Old 12-05-2011, 08:56 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by roadholder View Post
It's not just about the riding issues discussed here but the whole trials "package" as a sport that has needed a little prodding to (literally!) keep things moving. The recent section time limits at the World Level have helped from a "look and feel" perspective, no longer requiring specatators to suffer through a lengthy session of static balancing and throttle blipping as a rider endlessly stares at the rock face or step to be attempted!
Yep.
I remember viewing some WTC video with friends a few years back, expecting them to be blown away by the talent in that series. While partly true, there was also as much "dude, get on with it" feedback... as riders dithered and bounced on the spot in their sections, setting up for the next major obstacle. While I was used to that, I have to admit to the improvement the time limits have made after watching last years WTC on video. No stop may provide similar impetous to get things moving and bridge the gap between the extreme range of skill out there, however it will always come down to the organizers to cover all the bases and keep both experts and novices coming back. Never an easy task.
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Old 12-05-2011, 09:49 PM   #48
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True about setting up for the different skill levels and leveles inside each class. We put on events from 1978-1995 here on the ranch and the skill level and section level never meshed to everyones satisfaction. We kept it easy -loop riding easy for novices and figured the top guys knew we were going to hammer them.
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:41 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Thumpermeister View Post
Yep.
I remember viewing some WTC video with friends a few years back, expecting them to be blown away by the talent in that series. While partly true, there was also as much "dude, get on with it" feedback...
IS this "feedback" you speak of, not just another example of the ADHT society we have? Like they could watch and appreciate golf? "Dude, hit the friggin ball already, WTF?"

-OR-

I bet the Evil Knievel jumps pissed them off as a kid too? All that fking around ride up the ramp, go back, race up and then past it, do wheelies, wave, sit there and reve the engine...

Holy crap, I cant think of anything but Call of Duty (MW3) that could possibly keep that mentality constantly entertained, for each second of each minute of each hour... I dunno, maybe it is just me and my age.

THis is the big reason why motocross is so easily entertaining, Money buys speed, & speed thrills. Plus like trials, the good guys, with the millions no less, they make it look so much easier... and you know, we all know, you jump on a motocross bike or a hopped up quad, and nobody has to tell you, "dude, your a fast SOB on that thing." We all feel it, we all been there, we've got to be faster than anyone on here, see me? Even though for the last hour you have only raced up and down the parkinglot in the campground area...

Naw, the other problem is, absolutely none, nada, zero appreciation for what it takes to bounce and hop that bike, and to hold your self at balance standing still, while tiptoing on a pile of rocks, or 12ft in the air... To be able to calm yourself, gather up the courage to throw yourself off, up, or over some obstacle, that nobody can climb without the bike, with inches to spare, I mean inches.

This is why golf is a learned appreciation, usually by people that finally notice details, and can somehow appreciate all the things affecting any shot at play, & mostly because for 14-20 bucks in green fees and a borrowed set of clubs, you can find out how freaking easy Tiger made it all look. In reality if I hit a golfball, I have to just pray the som-beyotch ends up within the confines of the golf course, else I just lost another 4 dollar golfball.

90% of the riders and the feedback crowd you probably watched the vid with, cant race by the truck (in camp no less) 3 times within 3 feet of the last pass... yeah, there was no appreciation of the work it took, skills involved, in our ADHT society, everyone knows damn well it just takes money not skill to get the best, THE FASTEST, or fanciest of anything.

I half expected in the paragraph you posted one of them boys, would say "sheeeeit, I can do that, watch this." which if you look on yooooutube, there are a lot of friggin videos of people that said "hold my beer and watch this" lol.

Sting32 screwed with this post 12-06-2011 at 07:50 AM
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Old 12-06-2011, 12:18 PM   #50
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Excellent missive Sting. Spot on.
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Old 12-06-2011, 03:37 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Sting32 View Post
Like they could watch and appreciate golf?
Yikes, how about bowlng or curling too? If that is our non-motorized equivalent then the sport of trials in deep trouble!
Instead of looking for a lowest common denominator to compare ourselves to, or outright dismissing criticism of the spectacle trials is (or isn't) as "wrong", we should address it. We need to broaden the appeal of our motorsport to that of actual riding instead of boing, boing, boing on the spot! Sure there is skill involved there, as is standing on your head while riding! Hardly the point. There's no denying that observed trials has lost ground in prestige and participation in the modern era, versus other motorcycle sports. Not changing anything isn't going to stop that.

The renewed interest and participation many clubs have reported after switching to no stop rules speaks for itself and seems to have found momentum. It's not only an issue of section difficulty and rider inclusion but also of one's vision of our sport. As mentioned earlier, is this sport stunt riding or time-honored off-road competition?

Let's look a little closer to our sport for comparison. Are we the off-road equivalent of THIS?



OR This?

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Old 12-06-2011, 05:20 PM   #52
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Excellent missive Sting. Spot on.


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Old 12-06-2011, 10:32 PM   #53
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Am I totally missing the point here?

Why is there so much concern about spectators?
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Old 12-07-2011, 06:01 AM   #54
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Chris, that brings up even more issues. That is why we ride the same ol`sections time after time. We have 100`s of acres to ride and we only use 10 of them to be spectator friendly.
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Old 12-07-2011, 06:11 AM   #55
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I think No Stop would be less spectator friendly than the current rules. The top riders in each class are still going to be the top riders reguardless of if you are alowed to stop or not.
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Old 12-07-2011, 07:34 AM   #56
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Am I totally missing the point here?

Why is there so much concern about spectators?
My guess is that spectators equal potential new riders. In the US, trials is a tiny niche sport. My very unscientific observation is that there are a whole lot more older riders than there are younger riders. New blood has to come from somewhere. If people can't see it, they're not going to be compelled to give it a try.
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Old 12-07-2011, 01:18 PM   #57
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Holy crap, I cant think of anything but Call of Duty (MW3) that could possibly keep that mentality constantly entertained, for each second of each minute of each hour... I dunno, maybe it is just me and my age.
Same here! Unfortunately we are in the era of instant gratification and the two minute attention span. That does not bode well for trials, which of course is "hard"! The status quo is fine for our old gurd, but I'm not optimistic about the future. As we all know, it takes time and patience to get good at trials, something that today seems to be in short supply. Also, where a novice roadracer, MXer or enduro rider can at least ride the same course as his heros, a similar trials rider is constantly reminded of his or her patheticness...riding the "bunny hills" of the sport, at least initially. Also, many newbies are sadly more interested in demonstrating how good they are rather then asking how to get better!

That said, we can pat ourselves on the back for being so much "better" then those attitudes...and hop and bounce around with a dwindling handfull of old experts. We can watch the sport become further obscure, or try to do somethiong about it. No question, by nature the challenge is never going to completely go away in this sport, but what I like about the no-stop rules as noted earlier is the attempt to "bridge the gap" between the extremes of talent somewhat, moving the focus from stunting to riding while adding a user friendly element which has struck a chord for many organizations. We can argue all day about how exactly to "fix" the sport...but "nothing succeeds like success" and there's no denying someone is onto something here. The best riders will always prevail and the imporant elements won't change. It seems however many who have switched over have already found some traction...so to speak! It might only be a start.
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Old 12-07-2011, 01:50 PM   #58
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I don't see trials becoming more obscure or dying off. I have seen more articles in mainstream publications and tests of trials bikes in magazines like Dirt Rider than I can remember.

Also, more and more riders are beginning to notice that the top placers in extreme enduros like Ernzberg and Romaniacs are all trials riders. The same is true of the big names in EnduroCross.

However, I think that we can kill the sport if we try to go back to vintage rules.

I'll take a sick nose wheelie any day!!
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Old 12-08-2011, 07:31 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Thumpermeister View Post
The renewed interest and participation many clubs have reported after switching to no stop rules speaks for itself and seems to have found momentum. It's not only an issue of section difficulty and rider inclusion but also of one's vision of our sport. As mentioned earlier, is this sport stunt riding or time-honored off-road competition?

Let's look a little closer to our sport for comparison. Are we the off-road equivalent of THIS?
OR This?
Ok, what clubs reporting increase again? Seriously!

I again stress to you, believe non of what you "though you heard" and half of what you see.

And I add, if you need or feel the USA needs NO-STOP, there is (as apple says) an App for that, ALREADY.. I mean an organization, ITSA and ARHMA.

Do we really need to take trials back to the stone ages, to make people think it would be better? Shit no. I rode in the 70's through now. I ride a billion times better than I was, even though I ride in a lower class than I ever made it (my plateau as it were) to in my youth...

And, I picked the GOLF I did, as it is EASILY accessed, anyone with a few hours, can borrow or rent clubs, and hit that tiny little ball. and likely been tried by most people, once in thier life. Not because they were our equal, per se... But wouldnt it be kewl if trials was on TV every, we had multimillion dollar fortune 500 companies wanting to advertize on it, week like golf does? Nobody does today, thanks to ADD/ADHT mentality though, becuase with X-Box you can buy or find cheats to unlock anything, No real skill or thinking ability required. Look it up, nobody does the puzzle solving types of the same types/genre of games, becuase it requires work, and practice to explore those types of games. It is a completely totally different type of mentality, which is also sort of peer pressured into being mainstream.

Lastly, if the "big bucks" ever does find trials, I guarantee you the per event costs to riders and spectator, will increase 500%. and I cannot say if it will be bigger.

Trials riding mentality, is so different, unless you are going to aspire to be the Numeral Uno of the USA/WOrld in our sport. I ride becuase I LOVE the idea of:
--- It is me and what I brought with me (preperation, skills, bike and how I take care of it) against the difficulty of the sections today. And little bit about comradery, I love riding with my best buddys in and or out of my class, each pushing and helping each other, like me I am a zealot, Ill help if I think you will listen. When it is all about dollars and sponsors, it is a JOB, and the shareing will die with it, unless you have money.
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Old 12-08-2011, 10:43 AM   #60
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Ok, what clubs reporting increase again? Seriously!
Check out the Trials Central discussion.
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