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Old 12-18-2011, 07:19 PM   #31
bigborefan
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I have no plans to ride Dakar, but I would love to come out and play Dakar racer sometime. I like the idea of the enthusiast rally running parallel. A bike rental sounds great also.

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Old 12-18-2011, 09:04 PM   #32
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Doing Dakar the right way

This is exactly what I have been looking for! Count me in! Since I am from the Midwest, being able to take advantage of the fly-n-bike rental option would be best for me.

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Old 12-19-2011, 09:54 AM   #33
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In for 2012 class(es) Already have a reserved slot for your January standard clinic.

Subscribed too.

Missed an opportunity to train last year with Charlie and crew so I'm happy to learn you're considering this effort. I'll keep my fingers crossed there are enough enthusiasts and prospective privateers that will make it viable for you because I am very interested in participating.

Thanks JL!
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Old 12-19-2011, 02:54 PM   #34
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So far it seems like there is enough interest to make this happen and I'm positive it will only get more traction while Dakar is going on. I have been building an e-mail list in addition to keeping everyone informed here if/when this goes forward.

Now interest has to combine with timing and schedules to make it all work out.

I have a few big projects through Feb. so nothing will happen previous to that from the training side, but logistically, I'm working on it, especially the availability of rental bikes and having the right equiptment. I suspect for planning the first class would be in mid-late March.

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Old 12-22-2011, 04:50 PM   #35
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Great idea JL. Pm'd and emailed you.

Subscribed as well.
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Old 12-23-2011, 06:57 AM   #36
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I would love to do an "enthusiasts" version of the boot camp. The prospect of hitting Dakar as a competitor is too far-fetched for me at this (late) stage of my riding years, but I would be all over a boot camp for wannabes. having access to a rental bike would be a must-have for doing a fly 'n ride.

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Old 12-24-2011, 11:23 PM   #37
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Subscribed. This is a very interesting idea to me. An hors 'doeuvre to the dream of rally racing....In all honesty, I don't see myself fulfilling the ultimate dream of hitting Dakar. Age, family, funds, the typical story. But I would like to know what it takes to get there. I know in my heart I have the mindset and internal drive to pull off something like this.
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Old 12-27-2011, 05:27 PM   #38
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This could make financial sense if you could attract clients at the Pro level.
Maybe try to appeal to established Pros and interest their sponsors/agents in getting on board with doing rallies? ... then getting the Dakar specific training that is essential to win. Dakar recognition is growing in the USA ... slowly, but it's getting bigger.

The most likely candidates for Dakar training would come from our own AMA Enduro, GNCC, Hare & Hound, ISDE and other Desert Series. All pros with the proper fitness, youth and skills to win the event. But they don't work for free ... nor should they.

These "feeder" series are ideal to find future Dakar winners. All these guys know how to train and are pretty tough. How long they can ride without sleep? That's another issue.

Find the very best guys and get their sponsors to pay you to train them ... and then see if they are smart enough to learn to do navigation at 70 mph and how to cheat as good as the French do.

Over The Hill casual or X racers are out, IMO. No real chance. Rich guys can pay their way but no chance of finishing ... let alone winning it. We need guys at the top of their racing careers ... not at the end. As in every sport ... Youth will prevail.

Problem is few major sponsors, including the Big Four Japanese OEM's have any interest in Dakar or international rallies. Much more interest in Europe. It's a zero gain for most US based sponsors ... but maybe their perceptions could be shifted?

How can you "sell" them on a new way of looking at this?

It could take a generation to establish a viable US "team" of riders ... if we started now. But once a program was up and running US riders could do well ... with proper sponsorship and training.
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Old 12-28-2011, 12:48 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
Youth will prevail.

Seems like the guys who do well in Dakar tend to be more mature though...
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Old 12-28-2011, 11:22 AM   #40
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Seems like the guys who do well in Dakar tend to be more mature though...
True ... but how old were they when they started? Will take a whole generation of riders to finally gain the skill and knowledge to win. Start them young.
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Old 12-29-2011, 06:31 PM   #41
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I'd be interested in this type of training.
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:27 PM   #42
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Usually, right before the Baja 1000 I start getting e-mails. Riders looking for training for rally, specifically Dakar because they are likely going.

"Can you help me?"

I may seem cynical when I ask, “With what?” but at that point in the game it is true. What have you done already and what is your goal?
Now I know most riders are looking at my experience knowing I can teach them something about navigation or riding fast and navigating. But I’m no magician and it takes a lot more than a couple of days out in the desert to learn just a small fraction of what you should know. On my first Dakar I learned something that saved my life ever day of the event I rode. And got a helicopter ride out because I didn’t know enough. No, I didn’t even crash!
Now you can learn a lot from reading posts on this forum, most of the mistakes and lessons learned have happened to all of the guys who have done rally racing at one time or another. But to put it out there for anyone who is thinking about a 2013 Dakar effort, you should be doing your learning and training now.
I know some other guys have done some rally training in the past and it was not a viable business operation due to many factors, I have tried to do the same in small versions and had the same result. So to put it in front of a large majority of fans and participants I am considering to do a full-spectrum training series over the course of 2012 if there is enough interest to make it so that I don’t loose my ass in doing it. Since I have moved to an Editor-at-Large position with Dirt Rider, I have the time to do this properly.
This is basically a feeler to gauge interest and try and put something together. I have had some limited discussions with a few guys who are going this year and some that are planning on going some time so there is just enough interest right now to spark this to make it work.
The idea is that in March we would do a 2-3 day introduction class. I have a pretty good basic program that explains a lot of the navigation techniques and strategies as well as setting riders up on training schedules. This would also be a good time to evaluate the level of riding ability and fitness to see if something needs to be addressed here. Then there is the all-important mental aspect of the whole thing and I have some stuff on that front too.
Following that we would set up 2-3 day training sessions where riders will do rallies and some training activities I have set up.
Our facility is based out of Pahrump, NV which is very close to Las Vegas if riders were to be far away. Flying in and out of Vegas is simple and right now we are working on some ideas on bikes for training as well, as I said this is all in its beginnings. In fact one of the ideas we are kicking around it to have a parallel course with riders who want to do a “fun level” rally training at the same time where they get to “observe and help” the serious guys. We do not have anything posted up about this on our site yet and I’m still not 100% we can pull it off, but I wouldn’t know unless I asked. My selfish reasons for doing this include trying to find and train some younger riders for the future as well as include the training (mostly the mock rallys) to some of the top American guys today.
So if you have an interest in this at any level, feel free to post here or e-mail me at lewisj@dslextreme.com
I was told by a very successful motorcycle racer, "It is not what you did yesterday, or last week, or even over the last month that will help your result tomorrow. It is what you have been doing for the last years that really makes the differance." I totally agree with this and am trying promote this kind of thinking whe it comes to doing something as big as a Dakar. Even if you are just a priveteer. When you think about how much you are going to spend I amazed at how little investment goes into training to finish and succeed.
Five years ago at the Tecate Hare Scranbles we had a very similar talk behind that beat down box van you had or still have. It helped me alot, a Coke in the hydration system works, thanks.
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Old 12-30-2011, 10:10 AM   #43
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Nice to hit this thread. I ride technical rocky stuff a lot where I live but far less bike time than I'd like due to my schedules, so I joined Seth and did Charlie's Rally School a couple of years ago and got myself to the Mongolia Rally that summer where I finished mid pack much to my surprise. Basically a year of prep and physical training for a rally that's a great option for the first timer due to pretty easy terrain with some challenging navigation and lowish cost. I agree that riding the actual rally gave me the most in terms of confidence and a sense of what it takes to do double that at Dakar in terms of stages, but I doubt I would have gotten half as far without the learning I got at Charlie's school. Finances are keeping me from getting to another rally so I filled the gap by going to Rally School again last year which was a great way to get a cheaper rally fix closer to home. Maybe something to think of adding to your school/training concept to help fund it?

I think your idea is great if you can get it into a viable package with enough support. Yes it would be nice to have more North Americans at a level to win the Dakar but what's wrong with over the hill casual types wanting to go out and have some fun? For many recreation businesses those are the guys who keep those businesses afloat because they have the $$ to foot the bills. And yes starting young is key to being great when you're older, but not all of us are that lucky.

On the subject of smaller close to home navigation rallies, there are a few of us here in Newfoundland working on trying to build a 5 day event. We got bogged down with some government departments and finding suitable routes for stages. The areas we thought would be great turned out to have a lot of A to B and dead ends but very little in the way of stuff we could loop around etc to make the navigation interesting. We're still working on it.

Lastly I would be interested in a supporting role, I just can't see myself getting the means together for Dakar before I feel my age would be totally against me. I'm definitely interested in some of the African rallies etc as a more reasonable objective instead.

Maybe I can buzz out to Parhump for a visit when I go to Vegas in February for some company training?
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Old 01-02-2012, 05:08 PM   #44
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Bike Options

So, the biggest hurdle seems to be that a lot of the guys that are interested in participating at any level would also like to rent bikes.

I have tried to make contact with some guys who rent plated bikes, since a lot of the routes we would use require this and have had no luck. There are strict dirt bikes available but that really limits the where you can go.

The upfront costs to have even a few bikes is preventative for me at this point, maybe by next year that will change.

One thing I was considering is, for the guys planning on going onto a rally is coordinate a program where they buy the bike they will race and use it for the training and then have it prepped and shipped to the event. I have a few connections on guys who have done this and some guys that are looking to expand. In fact that is part of the plan that JCR has in the works to expand thier effort.

I also have the capability to safely store bikes if some riders wanted to leave the bike out for the season, which might be an option.


Or maybe someone else has a better idea?

JIMMY
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Old 01-02-2012, 05:10 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Lewis View Post
So, the biggest hurdle seems to be that a lot of the guys that are interested in participating at any level would also like to rent bikes.

I have tried to make contact with some guys who rent plated bikes, since a lot of the routes we would use require this and have had no luck. There are strict dirt bikes available but that really limits the where you can go.

The upfront costs to have even a few bikes is preventative for me at this point, maybe by next year that will change.

One thing I was considering is, for the guys planning on going onto a rally is coordinate a program where they buy the bike they will race and use it for the training and then have it prepped and shipped to the event. I have a few connections on guys who have done this and some guys that are looking to expand. In fact that is part of the plan that JCR has in the works to expand thier effort.

I also have the capability to safely store bikes if some riders wanted to leave the bike out for the season, which might be an option.


Or maybe someone else has a better idea?

JIMMY
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