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Old 12-27-2011, 09:34 PM   #1036
dmac57
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As to weight, look at it this way: It could gain 30 pounds and still be lighter than the beloved 1150.

I'm curious: Why would radial mount brakes make them less off-road capable?
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:18 AM   #1037
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Originally Posted by 996DL View Post
The stalwart few, that never bothered purchasing a HP2E in the first place, but still revere it's image / memory, like a Porsche enthusiast's 959 garage poster, perhaps. Outside of that, I feel you're waxing poetically / lamenting generational change, for changes sake.

Some additional weight and technological sophistication, will not turn BMW's cash cow GS series, into a festooned roadie. It's not to say that for a few, the additional pounds won't interfere in hard core off road use, but those owners are still truly an extremely small percentage, of GS buyers.

The only thing a considerable number of people will be doing, when this bike is released, is lining up in droves to buy them. Feel free to pm me, if KTM's numbers go through the roof at the same time,
I'll buy you lunch.

996DL
+1

BMW knows that, despite the hairy chest beating on forums like this, that most of the miles that GSs do is road miles. They are used as very comfy road bikes with good real road performance. They are used a lot less on dirt than people admit.

The Multistrada challenges that market, so BMW wants to up the ante. GSs are an aspirational bike, sold on the dream of crossing deserts and mountains and shit.
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:34 AM   #1038
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Originally Posted by DrunkWombat View Post
GSs are an aspirational bike, sold on the dream of crossing deserts and mountains and shit.
Just like the vast majority of Land/Range Rovers and other SUV's clogging the freeway.
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Old 12-28-2011, 02:44 AM   #1039
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Originally Posted by GB View Post
The FD doesn't look quite finished. They had a similar one on the K1600GT in testing but the final version does not have a hole in the middle.
Is it just me, or does anybody else see painted plastic covering the entire gas tank?
Also, I am like some others in reguard to the gs, gsa, being to big and really to nice and expensive of a bike to really take off road. I have done it on three occasions, no trails, just gravel with a little dirt where the gravel had sunk into the dirt, but the whole time praying that I did not drop it. The gsa did just fine, but I finally wised up and purchased a DR 650 for all of that.
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Old 12-28-2011, 03:26 AM   #1040
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrunkWombat View Post
+1

BMW knows that, despite the hairy chest beating on forums like this, that most of the miles that GSs do is road miles. They are used as very comfy road bikes with good real road performance. They are used a lot less on dirt than people admit.

The Multistrada challenges that market, so BMW wants to up the ante. GSs are an aspirational bike, sold on the dream of crossing deserts and mountains and shit.
But it is nice to know that you can. I have a GSA and out of its 30k it has done maybe 10% on dirt/mud roads. But I am proud of that 10%.
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Old 12-28-2011, 05:00 AM   #1041
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Originally Posted by TnTiretracks View Post
Is it just me, or does anybody else see painted plastic covering the entire gas tank?[...]
right. also look at the beak...very good camouflaged.
BMW is a genuis in disguising their vehicles.

Ever thought this could be a 5 series? Looks more like a Rover to me


The same with the bikes.
The big areas are all not productionready. But some details like the brakelight, indicators etc look finished.
But gastank, and instumentpanel etc aren't the real ones.

cheers,
Matti
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Old 12-28-2011, 05:45 AM   #1042
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrunkWombat View Post
+1

BMW knows that, despite the hairy chest beating on forums like this, that most of the miles that GSs do is road miles. They are used as very comfy road bikes with good real road performance. They are used a lot less on dirt than people admit.

The Multistrada challenges that market, so BMW wants to up the ante. GSs are an aspirational bike, sold on the dream of crossing deserts and mountains and shit.
The other player that needs to be given consideration is Triumph, they clearly have their sights on BMW. First the Tiger 800XC and soon the Tiger Explorer. Take a look:
http://www.tiger-explorer.com/images...esentation.pdf

Regatrds, Paul
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:32 AM   #1043
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 996DL View Post
The stalwart few, that never bothered purchasing a HP2E in the first place, but still revere it's image / memory, like a Porsche enthusiast's 959 garage poster, perhaps. Outside of that, I feel you're waxing poetically / lamenting generational change, for changes sake.

Some additional weight and technological sophistication, will not turn BMW's cash cow GS series, into a festooned roadie. It's not to say that for a few, the additional pounds won't interfere in hard core off road use, but those owners are still truly an extremely small percentage, of GS buyers.

The only thing a considerable number of people will be doing, when this bike is released, is lining up in droves to buy them. Feel free to pm me, if KTM's numbers go through the roof at the same time,
I'll buy you lunch.

996DL
I think we're saying parallel things, certainly from different perspectives.

You could look at it this way. Your Porsche analogy is appropriate, in that when the 993 was replaced by the 996, enthusiasts howled. The 993 was the last in line of the air cooled Boxer for the marque, after that the 996 got a fat ass. Whether you liked the purity of the 'old' 911, or the performance of the 'new' 911 was up to you.

The Jeep and Range Rover also have moved from roots as a utility vehicle into a suburbanites SUV through decades of evolution. Better? That's up to you and how you use it. Personally, I don't see any 'Sport' or 'Utility' in either Vehicle line but that's me. Though you can't argue that if you cross a continent in an LR3, you'd be far more rested than if you did it in its cousin from 1963.

Or, you could take the line that when Porsche (or others) launched their Cayenne SUV, it enabled the company to fund more focused vehicles in their respective lineups (Carrera, Cayman, etc).

IMHO, a water cooled GS is just another bike in the segment as its caved to the market. There won't be anything unique to it once it's launched, since it's an amalgam of other bikes in its league. At that point, I will look at purchasing from all available bikes with water cooling (Triumph, Ducati, KTM) as it will be a level playing field, albeit with a shaft drive instead of chains.

BMW fan boys can shout all they want and say sales number will stay the same. Maybe so, but what are you buying? The logo? What makes this bike different / better than its competition when it's launched? That's my question. Or has the GS already become the SUV of the motorcycle world?

I'm not against progress and am no luddite. I just see a company whose heritage was/is about innovation copying their peers and caving to market. Seems like a knee jerk reaction regardless. The test will be in the demo ride though.
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:58 AM   #1044
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Something that's now frequently mentioned is that many users end up doing what their vehicle makes them confortable to do so. In other words, the vehicle will influence the costumer's behavior.

Many KTM 950/990 do more off road because the bike encourages them to do so, they didn't bought the KTM because they did more off road. I also know many people who bought LR Defenders because of the style, and them ended being off road addicts.

It's obvious that someone who gets a new bike that's heavier/fragile/expensive (or simply looks like it is) will be doing less off road. Then the brand, with all its surveys understands that their users stay on the road and then releases the next model even less dirt friendly. And so goes on.

I remenber when Land Rover released the L322 RR, it was, effectively, the most off road capable Range Rover of all generations. Yet, buyers had many reservations and disconfort to put a spaceship in the mud and rocks. How did Land Rover understood the decline in off road use of the RR? That costumers didn't wanted or needed such a dirt worthy vehicle.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:10 AM   #1045
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrunkWombat View Post
+1

BMW knows that, despite the hairy chest beating on forums like this, that most of the miles that GSs do is road miles. They are used as very comfy road bikes with good real road performance. They are used a lot less on dirt than people admit.

The Multistrada challenges that market, so BMW wants to up the ante. GSs are an aspirational bike, sold on the dream of crossing deserts and mountains and shit.
+1 The GSA now is the motorcycle version of the H1 Hummer. While it can do some true off road in the dry it's takes and 6'5" line backer to muscle it around. If you took in in the northern woods, and muk you would need a log skider to pull it out.

Keep the GSA for those who want the "look" and the few guys big enough and skilled enough to muscle it around.

For the rest of us...I hope the new water head GS is lower, lighter, cast wheels with tubeless tires and full ESA with the low suspension. oh and a low exhaust too so the bags can be lowered for much better C of G for twisty handling. this make the bike much more suitable for exploring remote paved and dirt roads that exist all over the US and Canada.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:23 AM   #1046
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I don't feel the adv field is becoming in any way homgenized, with inline triples, vertical twins, L twins and the as always unique, boxer layout. BMW learned and admitted, that with development of the HP2S dohc air / oil cooled format, it had reached the peak outputs this motor could yield, without sacrificing reliability.

The sad fact in this evolution is that BMW, with their finger in seemingly every damn piehole segment of motorcycling, won't have the flexability to maintain production of two distinct boxer formats, for any given length of time. I don't see the air / oil cooled motor staying in production long, once the w/c boxer is up and running and yes from a purist standpoint, that is a shame. But this same cycle has been repeating, since the dawn of motorcycling and usually the biggest antagonists of change, are the one's most impressed with the demo rides.

I still have BIG ISSUES, with the Castiglione bros pulling the plug on the Mille bevel, immediately after assuming ownership of Ducati, but that ship sailed a long time ago...

996DL
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:27 AM   #1047
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For the rest of us...I hope the new water head GS is lower, lighter, cast wheels with tubeless tires and full ESA with the low suspension. oh and a low exhaust too so the bags can be lowered for much better C of G for twisty handling. this make the bike much more suitable for exploring remote paved and dirt roads that exist all over the US and Canada.
Isn't that what the F800GS is targeted at?
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:28 AM   #1048
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Not to turn this into an oil-thread, but could it be that the new GS won't be water cooled but rather have a large oil cooler with a fan?

[TaSK]
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Old 12-28-2011, 10:01 AM   #1049
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Originally Posted by vtbob View Post
+1 The GSA now is the motorcycle version of the H1 Hummer. While it can do some true off road in the dry it's takes and 6'5" line backer to muscle it around. If you took in in the northern woods, and muk you would need a log skider to pull it out.

Keep the GSA for those who want the "look" and the few guys big enough and skilled enough to muscle it around.

For the rest of us...I hope the new water head GS is lower, lighter, cast wheels with tubeless tires and full ESA with the low suspension. oh and a low exhaust too so the bags can be lowered for much better C of G for twisty handling. this make the bike much more suitable for exploring remote paved and dirt roads that exist all over the US and Canada.
I get tired of this kind of crap about the GSA. Based on the last paragraph you don't want a GS at all. Just get an RT.

I have a GSA and ride it off road quite a bit and I am 5'8" and wish I was built like a linebacker. A GSA a Hummer? You've got to be kidding. It has a tank that holds a couple extra gallons and has some extra travel. How does that make it a hummer? It weighs less dry than my old 1100 GS!! So don't give mr this crap about it being so big. I use that extra suspension and I use the extra fuel capacity and love the fact it has both.

Just ride what you like and don't bash others rides.
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Old 12-28-2011, 10:09 AM   #1050
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Tagesk Your fucking up my Dancing.

Dear Tuscan.

I was dancing with tear in my eyes and you pull this shit Oil with a Fan Shit.
What A good Strong Left Hook jabb. It did stop me in my steps dancing
What am i going to think now Will i get a RR 1300 GSR ? to push over the lava up here in Viking land ?*
What will Santa have to say about that ?

Will it have low profile tires and a spoiler this new OIL FAN RR1300GSR then i can use knee skid pads.

I prefer METAN / Helium / Hybrid drive better with a touch of Salt.

McFury Who can wait for the New Water / OIL / Metan R1300GSR.

My best McFury.

Crying with tear in my eyes.
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