450cc ADV bikes

[joenuclear]

Originally Posted by tokyoklahoma

Since the DAKAR has gone to a 450cc maximum displacement for bikes, do you think manufacturers will release a plethora of new 450cc dual-sports?

I ,for one, hope so. I think 450cc is the perfect size for a dual-sport, a 250cc is just a bit small for toting a load of gear, and a 650cc is just a bit clumsy in the single-track. IMHO

Didn't BMW make one .... once.

[Spiritwalker2222]

Originally Posted by No False Enthusiasm

Seems like the world is ready for a WR450R with:

Wide ratio 6 speed
4 gal tank
Racks
Skid Plates

NFE

That sounds like a nice bike, give it the same engine maintanence schedule as the WR250R and I'd be interested. Heck I looked long and hard at the WR250R, but at the end of the day I want a bit more power.

Don't forget about the KTM Enduro 690, it's a nice bike. Although I'm a little concerned about it's reliability.

[markk53]

Originally Posted by Pantah

After 6 seasons and some 60k miles aboard my KTM 950, I discovered the best adventure bike is an adventurized dual sport. Mine is a Yamaha wr250r.

Stock it weights under 300lbs with a full tank. It's quiet and very smooth with nice fuel injection. The six speed gearbox extends utility. Its valve service intervals are a whopping 26k miles. . Of course it needs a few comfort, luggage, and fuel range mods to ride the long trail:

Safari 3.7 gallon fuel tank- $475
Cee-Bailey wind screen - $90
Wolfman Expedition luggage/rack system- $440
Happy Trails tail plate- $100
2 elec power outlets- $24
Garmin trail gps kit- $300
Skid/rad plates- $150
Cycra hand guards- $110
Alaska Leather Buttpad- $80
Powerlet elec glove liners- $80

That's it!




After completing the CDR for about 2500 miles over 8 days, here is it's performance loaded for several days camping:

Fuel range- 210 miles tested. Prolly under 230 till dry.
Top speed- 92mph on my gps
Best cruise speed on the highway- 65/70mph
Weight fully loaded- about 160lbs less than my 950
Exploration capability- A total revelation.

I left this bike in AZ to visit during my snow bird time. In fact I will visit it next Tuesday for couple weeks to work on a section of the 'Great Western Trail' between Prescott and the Mex border. I am a totally average veteran rider. I am in my sixty's and not as strong as I should be. For me this little bike was like a gift. So much so, that I have decided to sell my old twin and buy a 2012 KTM 690R enduro. I will set it up exactly like my little Yamathump right down to the Cee Bailey screen. It was so effective, I will use the same one to fit the KTM. I'll probably install a 1" lowering link too.

My hope is that I'll have the same riding experience with the thrill of 68hp instead of 25...

Something to be said for simplicity... right?

[markk53]

Originally Posted by Kommando

That's barely into my comfort range for travel. Does it do better at 55-60MPH?



Couple that with a decent crawling gear and Suzuki should be ashamed of bringing the DR-Z to market in this country. Having to swap sprockets in the middle of a ride is just stupid.

I've run 8 hours and covered less than 210 miles on a dual sport. It's not just about miles covered. We spent nearly 3 hours in a national forrest covering less than 20 miles.

As for the DRz, realize what it was originally. It was a dirt bike! Not a cross country special, but a common dirt ride. As a dual sport it is a great general dual sport, not a full range trail creeper to high speed highway bike. Fact is back in the 70s some of the true ISDE bikes had SEVEN speeds. We had a Sachs engined Hercules back in 85 with a 7 speed. It was cool to ride. For Suzuki to do any different would screw up the cost of the bike. Maybe on a rework it would make sense to try to develop a six speed, but possibly the cases don't have enough room to accept an acceptably robust gear set to do the job. There are limitations.

By the way, a box stock DRz400 can do damn near 100 mph. My friends thrash around at 70+ mph for miles on end when we're out on pavement. One friend would thrash his at 80-85 mph when we were out playing Joe Supermoto. The case is if one can not accept the limitations of the design they should look elsewhere. Face it, the stock DRz400 can likely outdo any of the six speed 250s without much effort at both ends of the spectrum. The only disadvantage would be the bit more weight. There is a reason for the rpm range they have, just use it.

[markk53]

Originally Posted by No False Enthusiasm

Seems like the world is ready for a WR450R with:

Wide ratio 6 speed
4 gal tank
Racks
Skid Plates

NFE

The world may be, but the U.S. riders won't pay the price. They're stuck at KLR650/XR650L price range. The riders willing to do so already have the bike they'd buy - aka KTM450.

[MWadv]

Originally Posted by tokyoklahoma

Since the DAKAR has gone to a 450cc maximum displacement for bikes, do you think manufacturers will release a plethora of new 450cc dual-sports?

I ,for one, hope so. I think 450cc is the perfect size for a dual-sport, a 250cc is just a bit small for toting a load of gear, and a 650cc is just a bit clumsy in the single-track. IMHO

Check the manufacturers websites. The Europeans are ahead of the game. They have been making medium to big bore dual sports for years. See KTM, Husqvarna, Husaberg, Aprilia, BMW, CCM, Gas Gas. Some of the bikes from Japan are already set up for dual-sport also. See Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki and Yamaha. Some of these Japanese bikes may require minimal add ons to be fully street legal, based on your state DOT requirements and most of the Jap bikes are only 5 speed transmission types.
You say,"a 250cc is just a bit small for toting a load of gear". Let me remind you a "Dual-sport is designed to ride on the street and on the dirt. It is not classified an "Adventure Bike". Most real dual-sport riders carry what they need in a back pack or a tank bag or tail bag.
You say," 650cc is just a bit clumsy in the single-track. I think that is only relative to a riders ability and the degree of difficulty of the single track or it's condition.
The Dakar bike are in a different universe compared to a dual-sport. They are "Full blown RACE BIKES" and don't believe any different. Also believe the riders who compete in the Darkar type races are World class riders.

[slabm7]

The truth is every persons desire in an adventure bike is different. Some people like the 250 class for single track and don't mind giving up some on the highway, others prefer the 650 class and ride more double track and dirt roads but like to be comfortable on the highway as well. I owned a DRZ400S and it is far from the perfect in between. I found it to heavy for single track and to high strung on the highway. Its not good at either. While at least a 250 is good and one and a 650 is good at the other. I upgraded my DRZ400S to a dual sported XR650R and it was the best decision I ever made. Same weight with 20 more hp. Its better at single track than the DRZ, better on the highway than the DRZ and the same if not better reliability.

[Twisted654]

Won't happen as long as the drz400 is more expensive then the dr650

[No False Enthusiasm]

Several good points made...

Seems like Yamaha is close given the WR250R and the WR450F currently in the stable.

European manufacturers have created and addressed this market.

In the old days, Japanese manufacturers would have then stolen the market.

"We don't need no stinkin' Rune... DN-01... (fill in the blank)."

NFE

[lemieuxmc]

Originally Posted by joenuclear

Didn't BMW make one .... once.

I can't understand why the BMW 450 hasn't dominated all off road competitions or sold way more units than the KLR, DR, XRL 650's considering that BMW's engineering is so superior to the Japanese.


ADVISORY WARNING!
This is a facetious and sarcastic post, not so subtlety mocking BMW Motorrad for their lack of success with real dirt bikes.

[slartidbartfast]

Originally Posted by IheartmyNx

I think something that'd be interesting to see from this would be a boxer 450.

BMW did a 450 boxer from 78 to 85. It was a dog, barely able to get out of its own way. My old DR350 has a big bore kit, making it a low output, high torque 435. While it's capabilities are severely limited on-road when compared to bigger bikes, it certainly COULD go long distances with relative ease and would be MUCH better than its larger brethren. With a suitable rack and some tank panniers, it's quite a pack-mule too. Alas, not much use two-up.

[IheartmyNx]

Wrong "boxer".

Boxer as-in, Bore = Stroke. Same bore as stroke.

Not a flat horizontally opposed engine like a Porsche/VW/Subaru/BMW.


An over-square engine is a "big bore"
And under-square engine has more stroke than bore... A lot of 2t's are this way...

And lastly, a square engine has the same bore as stroke.

Modern technology is just that... T'would be cool to see an engine square in its internals, ok maybe not even exactly, but EFI/computer controlled with cams that compliment it.

[It'sNotTheBike]

Originally Posted by thomas.tc.young

i hope so, being the drz is the only adv bike that fits that bill currently.

My 450 EXC begs to differ.

[It'sNotTheBike]

Originally Posted by Pantah

My hope is that I'll have the same riding experience with the thrill of 68hp instead of 25...

Having ridden both the WR250R and the 690 Enduro, my bet is that once you have both bikes set up to
your liking you won't spend much time on the Yamaha. The Yamaha is a nice bike, but the 690 has
the sort of power that will make you invent excuses to ride, just because it is so much fun

[It'sNotTheBike]

Originally Posted by lemieuxmc

I can't understand why the BMW 450 hasn't dominated all off road competitions or sold way more units than the KLR, DR, XRL 650's considering that BMW's engineering is so superior to the Japanese.]

Yeah, I heard David Knight really liked the BMW 450 he raced ...