ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > The perfect line and other riding myths
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-07-2012, 01:44 PM   #1
EetsOK OP
Studly Adventurer
 
EetsOK's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Location: Kootenay/Boundary
Oddometer: 596
"Short shifting" WTF is that?

WTF is short shifting? Do you mean shifting before the power/torque peak? SHifting at too low revs? I've been riding for over a decade and I still haven't had anybody explain WTF short shifting is despite them standing around talking about it.
__________________
l never really thought of myself as a freak. But l'd love to freak.
EetsOK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2012, 01:45 PM   #2
VxZeroKnots
Beastly Adventurer
 
VxZeroKnots's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: Durango CO
Oddometer: 2,652
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=short+shifting
__________________
I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure

No bike does everything perfectly. In fact, no bike does anything until someone gets on it to ride.

VxZeroKnots is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2012, 01:58 PM   #3
Barman
Way Offline
 
Barman's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Saratoga Springs, NY
Oddometer: 1,166
Short shifting is what rattles you out of a slumber at 3am as that empty 18 wheeler goes up and down the entire 10 speed shift range with the frickin' jake brake still on despite the fact that it's a 30mph zone.
__________________
I am at one with my duality.
Barman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2012, 02:16 PM   #4
EsconDeasy
Ectomorph
 
EsconDeasy's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Oddometer: 1,462
The Wiki explanation is accurate, but doesn't cover every use of the technique

Back in the ol' days, the dirt bike magazines would talk about short shifting open class (500cc) dirt bikes. I assume the reason is because those bikes would fall off the power curve at about the time a 250 is coming on. So, guys accustomed to smaller bikes would need to break themselves of the habit (the habit of letting revs climb past 3000) in order to get the most out of the machine.

On a 450 thumper, I will sometimes take advantage of the soft power of the lower rev range by riding a gear high, eg - short shifting. It's handy if too much power would make the back end kick out or otherwise adversely affect handling. A quick pull of the clutch can then pick up the revs and get me back into the power.
EsconDeasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2012, 03:13 PM   #5
Grreatdog
Beastly Adventurer
 
Grreatdog's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Annapolis, MD
Oddometer: 10,524
I short shift for different reasons depending on the bike. On the 640 riding trails it is usually so I either don't kill myself and/or have a prayer of hooking up. If I let that bike get into the meat of its power on tight trails it either launches me into something, loops out or spins the tire. And having been pounded by the first two, I really try to limit how often I do them. So for the 640 it is normally to limit how much power I put to the ground. For the street it is usually for wheelies.

On a bike like my 200 that has a very hard hit when it comes on the pipe I usually want to hit a turn or a jump a gear high to avoid having it come on the pipe mid turn or off the lip of the jump. Either of those scenarios can be exciting. See above about hitting things and looping out. For my riding style a gear low is better than a gear to high because it saves a shift and a quick fan of the clutch gets it back on the pipe. The 200 isn't very powerful lugging but it is nice to NOT come on the pipe in some situations.

I learned to ride in deep sugar sand where short shifting was the fast way around a track or down a trail. The best way I found to hit those soft berms was to short shift into the turn then use abuse the clutch out of the turn. That kept you from blowing through the berm or spinning the tire too much on the gas and saved a shift on the next straight. It uses the clutch like an automatic transmission to modulate power and save a shift. It is magic when done right in loam and sand.
__________________
525EXC, 640 Enduro, XT200
Grreatdog is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2012, 03:18 PM   #6
car94
What's this Box for?
 
car94's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Location: West Central Missouri
Oddometer: 3,431
What most fail to understand ^: is that short shifting with dog ear gears will destroy your driven gears in a very short(pun intended) time, so unless you have straight cut gears, or you like ruining your trans! I would suggest winding out your shift to there intended tolerances, or at least close to them! It is also very hard on the Clutch plates.
__________________
Ride Your Own Ride
car94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2012, 03:22 PM   #7
Grreatdog
Beastly Adventurer
 
Grreatdog's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Annapolis, MD
Oddometer: 10,524
If I wanted to be easy on the machinery I would ride a street bike.
__________________
525EXC, 640 Enduro, XT200
Grreatdog is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2012, 03:29 PM   #8
nanotech9
** Slidewayz **
 
nanotech9's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Oddometer: 1,437
Quote:
Originally Posted by car94 View Post
What most fail to understand ^: is that short shifting with dog ear gears will destroy your driven gears in a very short(pun intended) time, so unless you have straight cut gears, or you like ruining your trans! I would suggest winding out your shift to there intended tolerances, or at least close to them! It is also very hard on the Clutch plates.

^^^ load of crock, if the definition of short shifting is as defined by the above posts... i.e. shifting early to stay in a particular power range.

No way it can damage a thing.
__________________
NANOFAB ::: Custom Kydex & Metal projects
_________________________________________________
'05 BMW 1200GS
'04 KTM 525 EXC
'02 YAMAHA TTR 125
'99 KTM 50 ADV
'86 KTM 250 2-smoker resto-project
nanotech9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2012, 03:48 PM   #9
DAKEZ
Beastly Adventurer
 
DAKEZ's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2007
Location: OR
Oddometer: 19,696
Quote:
Originally Posted by nanotech9 View Post
^^^ load of crock, if the definition of short shifting is as defined by the above posts... i.e. shifting early to stay in a particular power range.

No way it can damage a thing.
And just how many transmissions have you re-built?
__________________
“Watch out for everything bigger than you, they have the "right of weight"
Bib
DAKEZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2012, 03:55 PM   #10
Ginger Beard
I have no soul
 
Ginger Beard's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: Sunny Northern Cuba (aka: South Florida)
Oddometer: 6,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by car94 View Post
What most fail to understand ^: is that short shifting with dog ear gears will destroy your driven gears in a very short(pun intended) time, so unless you have straight cut gears, or you like ruining your trans! I would suggest winding out your shift to there intended tolerances, or at least close to them! It is also very hard on the Clutch plates.

So riding a gear high in order to hook will destroy your gears ?
__________________
"I have great faith in fools; self-confidence my friends call it." ~Edgar Allen Poe~
My Scramster Build

3 weeks solo: Overland Expo East ,Barber Vintage Fest and beyond
Ginger Beard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2012, 04:01 PM   #11
Blue&Yellow
but orange inside...
 
Blue&Yellow's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Sweden
Oddometer: 754
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginger Beard View Post
So riding a gear high in order to hook will destroy your gears ?
He was probably thinking of power shifting.
Blue&Yellow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2012, 04:18 PM   #12
LittleRedToyota
Yinzer
 
LittleRedToyota's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Pittsburgh
Oddometer: 2,232
personally, i would love to hear an explanation of how/why short shifting damages anything in a tranny or clutch.

bad for the engine? maybe.....with the emphasis on maaaaaaaaybe.

bad for the tranny or clutch?
LittleRedToyota is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2012, 04:21 PM   #13
Ranger Ron
Studly Adventurer
 
Ranger Ron's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: Sonoran Desert, AZ
Oddometer: 699
I have to short shift. I'm 5'6" and have a small foot.

Ron
Ranger Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2012, 04:55 PM   #14
farmerstu
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: Minnesota west central
Oddometer: 426
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAKEZ View Post
And just how many transmissions have you re-built?
i've rebuilt a bunch . and nonotech is correct.
btw. i short shift to keep my loud pipes quieter in town and when courtesy dictates.
farmerstu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2012, 05:06 PM   #15
ibafran
villagidiot
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Location: chicagoland
Oddometer: 1,287
Not mentioned in the wiki def, short shifting and feathering the throttle will help keep the noise down on a loud bike. Thus, some riders will short shift in their neighborhoods to keep their neighbors from lynching them.

As far as fuel economy goes, short shifting often helps get better mpg but not always. The hyper milers usually have to experiment with the machinery to learn where it gets its best mileage. Naked bikes often get their best economy at 40mph or less while slipperier aero'd sport bikes might do better up near 50mph due to a sweet spot where there is minimal drag. Some engines are designed with better efficiencies at slower rpm making them feel very good for plonking about and picking up rpm well from just off idle. Modern fuel injection has really improved overall performance across the rpm range. FI computers allow a multi to be ridden at slow speeds and not fall on its face when the throttle is opened. And large bore twins don't need accelerator pumps anymore.

Old carb'd engines would load up on carbon if short shifted over a long period of time. I never heard of any trannys damaged by short shifting. Granted, one could short shift so low in the rpm range that the engine is lugging. And lugging will damage mechanicals. But lugging is an operator error. For example, let's say that an asian bike with 4 cyl luggs at 2500rpm in 6th gear and will not pickup cleanly when the throttle is eased open from near shut. But, it accelerates smoothly from 3000rpm. A rider might short shift into 6th at 3500rpm and save fuel, rubber, and mechanical strain while still having some useful power at hand.
__________________
"beware the grease mud. for therein lies the skid demon."-memory from an old Honda safety pamphlet
ibafran is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 07:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2014