War and Pieces- Soviet Sidecar Rig Resurrection

[fyr]

Originally Posted by MotoJ

The electrical system is basically a switch, battery, coil, generator, and relay/regulator, points and condensor and distributor. Headlight, tail-light on bike, and marker light and tail-light on the car. It's wired positive ground right now. Maybe I'll try repolarizing the generator later to make it negative ground, but I don't really see the point.



The coil and distributor cover look like they're made of Bakelite.

[oppozit]

Originally Posted by MotoJ

The electrical system is basically a switch, battery, coil, generator, and relay/regulator, points and condensor and distributor. Headlight, tail-light on bike, and marker light and tail-light on the car. It's wired positive ground right now. Maybe I'll try repolarizing the generator later to make it negative ground, but I don't really see the point.

The Я terminal is marked by a red shrinkwrap which mormally would indicate + and the Ш terminal is marked by black shrinkwrap which normally indicates -. That's how a Г-414 with negative ground is wired up. A Г-11 is wired up the opposite due to the positive ground. Your's wouldn't be the first bike wired-up arse around because a PO took notice of internet "advice" that ALL M-72s were positive ground and merely swapped the baterry terminals.

[KneeDrachen]

I'll be away this weekend but we're spending at lot of time at Hopkins. If you're around next weekend, I'd like to swing by to check it out. if you're up to it....

[MotoJ]

Originally Posted by oppozit

The Я terminal is marked by a red shrinkwrap which mormally would indicate + and the Ш terminal is marked by black shrinkwrap which normally indicates -. That's how a Г-414 with negative ground is wired up. A Г-11 is wired up the opposite due to the positive ground. Your's wouldn't be the first bike wired-up arse around because a PO took notice of internet "advice" that ALL M-72s were positive ground and merely swapped the baterry terminals.

Well, it's a Г-11 generator. I'll check it out further when the bike goes back together. The PO who wired it was some old Lithuanian guy who put these together for a living, for whatever that's worth. The 1956 Kiev Ministry of Defence M72 manual I got with the bike lists the component numbers and states the bike is "positive earth" and lists a G-11 generator IIRC. I'll see what's listed for other components. The bike is titled as a '57, but that's an arbitrary number someone at the MVA in Lithuania or Maryland picked for all I know. What makes this bike an M72M?

[MotoJ]

Originally Posted by KneeDrachen

I'll be away this weekend but we're spending at lot of time at Hopkins. If you're around next weekend, I'd like to swing by to check it out. if you're up to it....

Sure! Send me a PM and we'll hook up. I'm not too hard to find from Hopkins......

[arbalest]

Oppozit,

Depending on your level of commitment to originality, I can give you a couple of bits of information. Carbs..probably are 26mm. If you can find old Bings, you are lucky. 26mm carbs are not easy to find for these things, but 28's can be made to work ok. You can get "new" carbs for a Chang flathead that will work quite well. You may have to play with jetting, though. You can get three ring pistons (don't bother with original style four ring pistons) from Chang suppliers quite reasonably. The quality will be as good or better than the Russian stuff. Don't believe what you read for piston/cylinder wall clearance. Most sources will say .003". That clearance is for a solo. For sidecar use, go to .006" clearance. If you want to talk to someone who knows how to make the old flatheads run well, contact Chris Jordan at immulmen AT yahoo DOT com. He has a flathead Chang rig that will go 60mph all day long without overheating. He will be happy to help you.

Mike Lydon

[MotoJ]

Originally Posted by arbalest

Oppozit,

Depending on your level of commitment to originality, I can give you a couple of bits of information. Carbs..probably are 26mm. If you can find old Bings, you are lucky. 26mm carbs are not easy to find for these things, but 28's can be made to work ok. You can get "new" carbs for a Chang flathead that will work quite well. You may have to play with jetting, though. You can get three ring pistons (don't bother with original style four ring pistons) from Chang suppliers quite reasonably. The quality will be as good or better than the Russian stuff. Don't believe what you read for piston/cylinder wall clearance. Most sources will say .003". That clearance is for a solo. For sidecar use, go to .006" clearance. If you want to talk to someone who knows how to make the old flatheads run well, contact Chris Jordan at immulmen AT yahoo DOT com. He has a flathead Chang rig that will go 60mph all day long without overheating. He will be happy to help you.

Mike Lydon

Hi Mike, MotoJ here- I think you meant to address me. Thanks for the post! First I should say that I started this thread after a lot of the work has already been done- I had all the photos and thought the sidecarists on ADV might be interested. I have already sorted out my piston situation. I'll post about that later. Carbs I've decided to rebuild the K302s that were on there. They had the bike running at some point, so I'll stick with those first. I actually found a pair of K37s that I have as backup.

I'm not too interested in originality- I'm trying to build a daily runner. I'm going to keep the crappy Lithuanian paint job and the KMZ mufflers and kneepads. Budget is a concern, so I'm trying to keep to only the necessities.

I've been corresponding with Immulman through posts on the RI Forums. He actually gave me a steering damper wingnut rod free! It will probably be the nicest part on the bike. Very nice guy and very knowledgeable!

[oppozit]

Originally Posted by MotoJ

. What makes this bike an M72M?

Bottlecap wheels and a torsion-bar sidecar instead of plain pressed-steel hubs and an overarm sidecar.

[nsu max]

I'm liking this thread!

[MotoJ]

I was hoping that this bike would be a case of give it a good scrub, new battery, clean the carbs, replace the fluids, etc. but that was not to be. Everywhere I looked was more grime and corrosion, and although the bike would turn over with the plugs out i couldn't get it to stay in any gear, and the kickstarter quit after a couple pokes. The rings made a pop when they broke loose of the rust in the left bore.

I got the bike hoisted up by a come-along suspended from a ceiling beam. My neighbor made a comment that this reminded him of the famous photo of Ed Gein's barn. Yeesh.



I figured i'd start by draining the oil. None at all.

[RomaDakota]

Originally Posted by MotoJ

Plus, I was inspired by RomaDakota's awesome MV750 build thread. It's what got me interested in these old Russians to begin with:

Opps, sorry about that...

[Leaf]

At the risk of tempering your gusto with cynicism.... ;P

Does it have to be an accurate restoration? From the sound of things, I think I might be inclined to send that engine to the scrapper and put in whatever shaft drive donorcycle engine happens to be available on Craigslist instead. I'd bet you a dollar the compression on that cylinder that was stuck is going to be unacceptable.

I mean, /if/ you get that motor running, are you going to be able to find parts in a timely fashion the next time it breaks down? I've heard that none of those russian flatheads except the contemporary Urals are very reliable.......

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to be critical or anything. Just kinda sipping a beer and making uneducated observations from the peanut gallery. ;3

I've always hoped to find a broken down 650 Ural or 'Neepr somewhere for cheap, to put a CX500/650 powerplant into. :P

[MotoJ]

Originally Posted by Leaf

At the risk of tempering your gusto with cynicism.... ;P

Does it have to be an accurate restoration? From the sound of things, I think I might be inclined to send that engine to the scrapper and put in whatever shaft drive donorcycle engine happens to be available on Craigslist instead. I'd bet you a dollar the compression on that cylinder that was stuck is going to be unacceptable.

I mean, /if/ you get that motor running, are you going to be able to find parts in a timely fashion the next time it breaks down? I've heard that none of those russian flatheads except the contemporary Urals are very reliable.......

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to be critical or anything. Just kinda sipping a beer and making uneducated observations from the peanut gallery. ;3

I've always hoped to find a broken down 650 Ural or 'Neepr somewhere for cheap, to put a CX500/650 powerplant into. :P

Well, as all my projects are underfunded and poorly planned, I'm right on track with this one- all gusto and no gameplan!

Like I said, I'm trying to just build a reliable runner. I'm not going to worry about a restoration, period details, OEM parts, and the like. This is more of a "refurb".

Parts are actually pretty readily available (but won't be forever) from a few places in Europe, and Chiang Jiang 6 volt models were licensed from the Soviets and many of those parts are interchangeable with the Soviet M72, and still available.

From folks I've been corresponding with who own these old flatheads, I hear the quality is many times actually better than the later 650 overhead valve jobs. They aren't fast, but they're built to withstand a lot of punishment and be fixed by uneducated peasant soldiers with the factory tool kit and a big rock. Think tractor instead of performance motorcycle.

Stalin was still alive until '53 and his old guard was still running things for awhile after his death, so no worker wanted to be known as an "enemy of the people" or whatever. The Cold War was making people patriotic still and the disincentives of Communism weren't so apparent that the workers didn't give a shit yet. That's what some folks speculate anyway.

I mentioned earlier that this project is underway a couple months now, but I've only just started the thread. I'm going to post up the pics I have and get things up to the present...

So, I'm using the flathead motor for now, but nothing saying an R60 airhead motor won't find its way in there someday!

[MotoJ]

Originally Posted by RomaDakota

Opps, sorry about that...

Ha! Well I haven't cursed you yet- I'm still having fun. We'll see how that goes....

[DaFoole]

This is great stuff!!!!

Thanks for your posts!

I'll be watching......