VÅRRUNDAN 2012 - "Spring Thaw Rally": Saturday 31st March, Olofström (south) SWEDEN

troy safari carpente · 01-26-2012, 01:58 AM

Vårrundan “Spring Thaw Ride”

Saturday 31st March. The "Back in Blekinge" Tour
Halens Camping / Conference and Restaurant in Olofström.

Each year since 2005 Swedish.Moto-Safaris host the traditional Swedish road book rally premiere;
VÅRRUNDAN 2012 will be held in Olofström, (Blekinge region) on Saturday 31st March 2012 ...
(the first weekend after we turn our clocks over the summer, and one weekend before Easter).

Olofström is approximately two hours driving time from the southern Swedish port cities of either
Trelleborg or Helsingborg, and 1 hour 45 minutes from Malmö/the Öresund bridge (if driving via Denmark).

For more information about the "Spring Thaw Rally", go to the VÅRRUNDAN 2012 thread in the VENDORS forum;

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=759328

There you will find info. on the event schedule, accomodation, booking and entry procedures/links etc.

regards

TSC.

troy safari carpente · 01-26-2012, 03:47 AM

What is VÅRRUNDAN...?

The idea behind the “SPRING THAW RALLY” was born on a windy Saturday afternoon in January of 2005,
while my good friend Ola and I were out riding around some of our favorite forest trails and gravel roads in southern Sweden.
We did not know it then, but the storm we were out in the middle of, would later become known by a little more well-known name...
hurricane Gudrun.

It was the case that Ola and I had met at another event – the Valhalla Rally -
a few months earlier (November 2004). We became regular riding buddies as a result.

During our various outings together, we started thinking about whether it might be fun to fix a similar road book / navigation event ourselves?
Together we knew a lot of roads and terrain in the region, and had some contact with local authorities and landowners.
Given the fact that we live in Sweden's equivalent of Florida (where summer shows up at least two months earlier than the more northern landscapes in Sweden),
we arrived at the conclusion it would be a good bet to arrange an event that takes place early in the spring and kick start the off-road motorcycle riding season!

VÅRRUNDAN!

So together Ola and I put together a 250 km route in the north western region of Skåne
that would take place the first weekend after Sweden sets its clock over to "summer time"...
and in April of 2005 we conducted the first Vårrundan.

It was instant success; around the 55 offroad/rally fanatics joined in and rode that first innaugural event.
We finished the day with an open air chilé con carne feast by a lake in the rural Swedish countryside.

For 2006, we expanded the concept to include overnight accommodation ...
With so many participants who came from farther away (Stockholm, Gothenburg, Denmark, etc.)
and over the next couple of years, this simple roadbook evet, evolved into an annual "happening".

In that context we founded Swedish.Moto-Safaris to handle the economic aspects of arranging such an event.
Vårrundan and a couple of other rides we had arranged had proved very popular,
so that it was no longer possible to manage the money issue out of our own wallets.

During 2006/2007/2008 Ola and I participated in many social events with the SOE.se, Tenere.dk,
fraggel.se and adventureriders.se members and enthusiasts. We also arranged a number of events,
where these groups rode with us...
Vårrundan, Coast 2 Coast, DDU Challenge, and of course Dirty Long Weekend ....

In 2008 came another face to S.M-S.se ... Mr. Green. Markus was a participant on DLW in 2006
and had been instrumental in the planning of Vårrundan 2007 (his home town of Gnosjö, Sweden).
Markus was also a key member of the planning committee for Destination Down Under Challenge in 2007,
which was a huge project with many people involved;

Rally Princess Annie Seel, adventureMike Badini, yours truly, 200cm Ola and “Öken” Olle O.

Following the results of DDU, Markus rode as a member of the Swedish team at the 2008 TUAREG Rallye in Morocco,
along with Carl Hagenblad, Ronnie Bodinger, and Danne Sawano.

Since then (2009), we have managed SM-S.se together and conducted a number of events;
Vårrundan 2009, 2010, 2011 and DLW 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011.

VÅRRUNDAN. Sweden’s annual roadbook premiar & off road motorcycle "happening".

Over the years, the camaraderie and "atmosphere" surrounding Vårrundan has become a big part of the experience.
An opportunity to catch up with old riding buddies from previous years and stretch the old bones before the new season gets under way for real.
The reasons to participate are many.

Similarly, we have tried to make VÅRRUNDAN something little more than the average ordinary group ride.
It’s not just a fun roadbook run, with good friends, comfortable accommodation and fine food ...
Some years we have hosted returned desert heroes from the DAKAR and TUAREG Rallies who have participated
and shared their experiences with us. We have been the guest of motorcycle dealers who have put on “open house”
and test rides of new model offroad bikes during the day. More recently, we have arranged offroad special test areas,
where people can "spice up" the day’s riding a little bit, with some enduro and motocross/grass stages.

For VÅRRUNDAN 2012, we will continue in the same spirit, and we have some surprises up our sleeves,
to make this year's edition a bit special in it’s own way too!

In 2012 we also welcome more superficial a new face to the SM-S.se family ... namely my beloved Carin.
Not really a "new face"... those of you who have been to S.M-S.se events before will surely remember her
lovely laughter and smiles from the previous Vårrundan events; 2009 Ljungbyhed, 2010 & 2011 in Hässleholm.

But from 2011 on Carin has jumped in and is now a little more “hands on” with the "everyday" functions needed
to put Vårrundan and other events Swedish.Moto-Safaris.se plans in the future together.

Both Ola and Markus are still in the wings ... always welcome, always an important part of the SM-S.se "family"...
just like my daughters Amy & Melissa and their lil’ brother Camron, and including Carin's daughters Elin and Johanna...
ALL of whom are on hand at different occasions and help us make these fun weekends happen.

It is in many respects, a "family" activity.

Hope to see many old friends and new alike, at VÅRRUNDAN 2012.

regards,

TSC and the crew...

F650Dakar_Norway · 01-26-2012, 11:49 AM

I'm in - if there's room for a Norwegian gravel-whacko

Thread subscribed

troy safari carpente · 01-26-2012, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F650Dakar_Norway

I'm in - if there's room for a Norwegian gravel-whacko

Yep...!

Be good to catch up again...!

Link to 2011 Vårrundan thread;

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=658610&highlight=V%E5rrundan+2011

troy safari carpente · 01-26-2012, 11:57 PM

Entries ... 22 entered!

(vendors thread)

http://advrider.com/forums/showpost....91&postcount=6

Dazed Productions · 01-28-2012, 04:33 AM

Looks good but can't get time off at that time of the year. Hoping you are going to run DLW again this year and do that instead! Any idea when you will publish dates for that?

troy safari carpente · 01-29-2012, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dazed Productions

Looks good but can't get time off at that time of the year. Hoping you are going to run DLW again this year and do that instead! Any idea when you will publish dates for that?

We usually run it, late sept to mid october... set a date in june.

troy safari carpente · 01-29-2012, 11:58 PM

On the weekend, Carin and I were up in Blekinge to do some preliminary planning and co-ordination of Vårrundan
together with the folks at the Conference Center where we will stay, and document the route for the roadbook...

Winter is all over the place at the moment (though the sunshine made an appearance on Sunday afternoon)...
but by the end of March... spring will be in the air!

Out in the wood's we put together a combination of gravel and forest roads that were so very picturesque
and varied...

Carin commented that; "it is the best roads"
that she had seen of the four Vårrundan tours she has followed...

PBee · 02-07-2012, 03:59 AM

I wish...............

troy safari carpente · 02-21-2012, 01:48 AM

last week till entries close...!

ENTRIES close march 10th... there is plenty of places left!
Come on up to Southern Sweden the 30th/31st of march and enjoy a great 260 km of social trailriding (roadbook route)
amongst some of Blekinges finest lakes and pineforests!

Special test/offroad riding area

Fantastic gravel and forestry roads...

and heaps of friendly new riding companions

fantastic accomodation/restaurant and event HQ at picturesque lakeside setting;

CONFIRMED PARTICIPANTS/ENTRIES

(see last post in thread)

troy safari carpente · 02-24-2012, 01:09 AM

in conjunction with VÅRRUNDAN 2012 "Spring Thaw Ride"...
Olofström, Blekinge, SWEDEN. Saturday 31st March, 2012.

http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18060515&postcount=11

http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18060534&postcount=12

troy safari carpente · 02-26-2012, 01:33 PM

Just got back from a weekend of doing the final roadbook survey for Vårrundan...

troy safari carpente · 03-05-2012, 11:42 PM

Another of our ADV (Swedish) forum inmates, and proud DR 650 owner - Martin - has been busy over the winter months giving his old faithfull a rebuild and makeover. Martin has entered Vårrundan 2012 (what will be his first roadbook rally) and over the weekend put the finishing touches on his gem and fired her up for the first time!

Lookin' good!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MartinPetren

Sent in my application for Vårrundan a.k.a Spring Thaw Rally in March. It's the first road book rally for the year and I'm really looking forward to it. See info here: http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=759328

Can't wait to get back on the saddle!

Isn't it just awesome now or what?!

The DR has come up a treat Martin...

Toss a manual roadbook holder onto the bars cross brace and silicone a little magnifying glass over the tripmeter on the original instrumentation (make the digits larger/easier to read) and your ready to roll!

There is still time to get in on the fun (VÅRRUNDAN) so check out the thread in "vendors"
http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18147908&postcount=14 if you want to join...

troy safari carpente · 03-06-2012, 02:39 AM

Vårrundan 2012 confirmed entries:

Updated list - as of the 5th of March
Entered: 46 riders.

ENTRIES CLOSED 10th March

troy safari carpente · 03-12-2012, 12:45 AM

Startlist - Vårrundan 2012

at close of entries - till 10th mars
57 riders.

David P HUSABERG FE 570
Hellracer HUSABERG FE 450
Danne 123 KTM 950 SE
BigDick64 KLX 650
Stefan C KTM 640 ADV
Tuborg HONDA XR 650R
Konfucious BMW G650X
ctbr KTM 990 ADV
Lämmeln KTM 690 R
geik KTM 400 EXC
Trebor KTM 625 SXC
Jens S KTM 950 SE
Svart KTM 450 EXC
690RR Norge KTM 690 Rallye
Duddan KTM 950 SE
Relocx KTM 525 EXC
Imperius KTM 525 EXC
Tombestone KTM 300 EXC
Marlboro Man BMW 650 GS
Xman XTZ 660 Tenere
Tore KTM 990 ADV
ATHolst HONDA XRV 650
The Wanderer KTM 690
Zeb Macahan KTM 690
Mr Ranger YAMAHA TT600R
Borsiin Sr KTM 450 EXC
Jocke RR YAM WR 450F
Dino KTM 640
Chrille-L KTM 640 Adv
Putte O YAMAHA XTZ 750
Lalle BMW GS 1200
Alvinmotor YAMAHA XT 400
Tolan KTM 690
Sway SUZUKI DRZ 400
Musicman BMW 450
Lasso BMW F650GS Dakar
The Bunny KTM 525 EXC
Fistequist Honda XR650R
Biffalo Bull Suzuki DR600S
MartinP Suzuki DR650
SÅJ Kawasaki KLX 450
Gurra KTM 990 ADV R
Hiis KTM 690 E
nictor BMW F650GS Dakar
OVES MOTOR Ted
OVES MOTOR Uffe
Mudface Husa
Hagenblad KTM
Sicarius Honda XRV750
Jonas G Hva TE450
Max Honda XR650
XT Claes Yamaha XT660RR
Jonatan KTM 500 Sixdays
Rickard C KTM 525
SUNE Honda XR650R
Peter D Honda Africa Twin
zaik KTM 450 sixdays

Volunteers:

Troy
Carin
Melissa
Camron
Mekano-son

01-26-2012, 01:58 AM	#1
troy safari carpente ^OP Team f5ool Joined: Nov 2005 Location: f5ederation of scandwegia Oddometer: 13,992	VÅRRUNDAN 2012 - "Spring Thaw Rally": Saturday 31st March, Olofström (south) SWEDEN Vårrundan “Spring Thaw Ride” Saturday 31st March. The "Back in Blekinge" Tour Halens Camping / Conference and Restaurant in Olofström. Each year since 2005 Swedish.Moto-Safaris host the traditional Swedish road book rally premiere; VÅRRUNDAN 2012 will be held in Olofström, (Blekinge region) on Saturday 31st March 2012 ... (the first weekend after we turn our clocks over the summer, and one weekend before Easter). Olofström is approximately two hours driving time from the southern Swedish port cities of either Trelleborg or Helsingborg, and 1 hour 45 minutes from Malmö/the Öresund bridge (if driving via Denmark). For more information about the "Spring Thaw Rally", go to the VÅRRUNDAN 2012 thread in the VENDORS forum; http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=759328 There you will find info. on the event schedule, accomodation, booking and entry procedures/links etc. regards TSC. __________________ Quote: Originally Posted by zenjen "It's one of those nuts and uncles deals..."

01-26-2012, 03:47 AM	#2
troy safari carpente ^OP Team f5ool Joined: Nov 2005 Location: f5ederation of scandwegia Oddometer: 13,992	some background... What is VÅRRUNDAN...? The idea behind the “SPRING THAW RALLY” was born on a windy Saturday afternoon in January of 2005, while my good friend Ola and I were out riding around some of our favorite forest trails and gravel roads in southern Sweden. We did not know it then, but the storm we were out in the middle of, would later become known by a little more well-known name... hurricane Gudrun. It was the case that Ola and I had met at another event – the Valhalla Rally - a few months earlier (November 2004). We became regular riding buddies as a result. During our various outings together, we started thinking about whether it might be fun to fix a similar road book / navigation event ourselves? Together we knew a lot of roads and terrain in the region, and had some contact with local authorities and landowners. Given the fact that we live in Sweden's equivalent of Florida (where summer shows up at least two months earlier than the more northern landscapes in Sweden), we arrived at the conclusion it would be a good bet to arrange an event that takes place early in the spring and kick start the off-road motorcycle riding season! VÅRRUNDAN! So together Ola and I put together a 250 km route in the north western region of Skåne that would take place the first weekend after Sweden sets its clock over to "summer time"... and in April of 2005 we conducted the first Vårrundan. It was instant success; around the 55 offroad/rally fanatics joined in and rode that first innaugural event. We finished the day with an open air chilé con carne feast by a lake in the rural Swedish countryside. For 2006, we expanded the concept to include overnight accommodation ... With so many participants who came from farther away (Stockholm, Gothenburg, Denmark, etc.) and over the next couple of years, this simple roadbook evet, evolved into an annual "happening". In that context we founded Swedish.Moto-Safaris to handle the economic aspects of arranging such an event. Vårrundan and a couple of other rides we had arranged had proved very popular, so that it was no longer possible to manage the money issue out of our own wallets. During 2006/2007/2008 Ola and I participated in many social events with the SOE.se, Tenere.dk, fraggel.se and adventureriders.se members and enthusiasts. We also arranged a number of events, where these groups rode with us... Vårrundan, Coast 2 Coast, DDU Challenge, and of course Dirty Long Weekend .... In 2008 came another face to S.M-S.se ... Mr. Green. Markus was a participant on DLW in 2006 and had been instrumental in the planning of Vårrundan 2007 (his home town of Gnosjö, Sweden). Markus was also a key member of the planning committee for Destination Down Under Challenge in 2007, which was a huge project with many people involved; Rally Princess Annie Seel, adventureMike Badini, yours truly, 200cm Ola and “Öken” Olle O. Following the results of DDU, Markus rode as a member of the Swedish team at the 2008 TUAREG Rallye in Morocco, along with Carl Hagenblad, Ronnie Bodinger, and Danne Sawano. Since then (2009), we have managed SM-S.se together and conducted a number of events; Vårrundan 2009, 2010, 2011 and DLW 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011. VÅRRUNDAN. Sweden’s annual roadbook premiar & off road motorcycle "happening". Over the years, the camaraderie and "atmosphere" surrounding Vårrundan has become a big part of the experience. An opportunity to catch up with old riding buddies from previous years and stretch the old bones before the new season gets under way for real. The reasons to participate are many. Similarly, we have tried to make VÅRRUNDAN something little more than the average ordinary group ride. It’s not just a fun roadbook run, with good friends, comfortable accommodation and fine food ... Some years we have hosted returned desert heroes from the DAKAR and TUAREG Rallies who have participated and shared their experiences with us. We have been the guest of motorcycle dealers who have put on “open house” and test rides of new model offroad bikes during the day. More recently, we have arranged offroad special test areas, where people can "spice up" the day’s riding a little bit, with some enduro and motocross/grass stages. For VÅRRUNDAN 2012, we will continue in the same spirit, and we have some surprises up our sleeves, to make this year's edition a bit special in it’s own way too! In 2012 we also welcome more superficial a new face to the SM-S.se family ... namely my beloved Carin. Not really a "new face"... those of you who have been to S.M-S.se events before will surely remember her lovely laughter and smiles from the previous Vårrundan events; 2009 Ljungbyhed, 2010 & 2011 in Hässleholm. But from 2011 on Carin has jumped in and is now a little more “hands on” with the "everyday" functions needed to put Vårrundan and other events Swedish.Moto-Safaris.se plans in the future together. Both Ola and Markus are still in the wings ... always welcome, always an important part of the SM-S.se "family"... just like my daughters Amy & Melissa and their lil’ brother Camron, and including Carin's daughters Elin and Johanna... ALL of whom are on hand at different occasions and help us make these fun weekends happen. It is in many respects, a "family" activity. Hope to see many old friends and new alike, at VÅRRUNDAN 2012. regards, TSC and the crew... __________________ Quote: Originally Posted by zenjen "It's one of those nuts and uncles deals..."

01-26-2012, 11:49 AM	#3
F650Dakar_Norway What off-season? Joined: Sep 2004 Location: Norway, Scandinavia Oddometer: 900	I'm in - if there's room for a Norwegian gravel-whacko Thread subscribed __________________ Norway ________________________________ Current stable: 2010 BMW F800GS 2008 KTM 690 RR '04 BMW F650GS Dakar '94 Honda ST1100 '09 Garmin Zumo 550

01-26-2012, 11:57 PM	#5
troy safari carpente ^OP Team f5ool Joined: Nov 2005 Location: f5ederation of scandwegia Oddometer: 13,992	Entry update... Vårrundan 2012 Entries ... 22 entered! (vendors thread) http://advrider.com/forums/showpost....91&postcount=6 __________________ Quote: Originally Posted by zenjen "It's one of those nuts and uncles deals..." troy safari carpente screwed with this post 01-29-2012 at 11:43 PM

01-28-2012, 04:33 AM	#6
Dazed Productions Gnarly Adventurer Joined: Nov 2010 Oddometer: 188	Looks good but can't get time off at that time of the year. Hoping you are going to run DLW again this year and do that instead! Any idea when you will publish dates for that? __________________ www.dazedproductions.co.uk

01-29-2012, 11:58 PM	#8
troy safari carpente ^OP Team f5ool Joined: Nov 2005 Location: f5ederation of scandwegia Oddometer: 13,992	Vårrundan 2012... surveys/planning... On the weekend, Carin and I were up in Blekinge to do some preliminary planning and co-ordination of Vårrundan together with the folks at the Conference Center where we will stay, and document the route for the roadbook... Winter is all over the place at the moment (though the sunshine made an appearance on Sunday afternoon)... but by the end of March... spring will be in the air! Out in the wood's we put together a combination of gravel and forest roads that were so very picturesque and varied... Carin commented that; *"it is the best roads"* that she had seen of the four Vårrundan tours she has followed... __________________ Quote: Originally Posted by zenjen "It's one of those nuts and uncles deals..."

02-07-2012, 03:59 AM	#9
PBee Farkle Finder Joined: Jun 2009 Location: Kersbrook.SA. Oddometer: 5,453	I wish............... __________________ QUORN SCHNITZEL CLUB When in the FLINDERS RANGES SA stay at the ANGORICHINA Village

02-21-2012, 01:48 AM	#10
troy safari carpente ^OP Team f5ool Joined: Nov 2005 Location: f5ederation of scandwegia Oddometer: 13,992	VÅRRUNDAN "Spring Thaw Ride" 2012... last week till entries close...! ENTRIES close march 10th... there is plenty of places left! Come on up to Southern Sweden the 30th/31st of march and enjoy a great 260 km of social trailriding (roadbook route) amongst some of Blekinges finest lakes and pineforests! Special test/offroad riding area Fantastic gravel and forestry roads... and heaps of friendly new riding companions fantastic accomodation/restaurant and event HQ at picturesque lakeside setting; CONFIRMED PARTICIPANTS/ENTRIES (see last post in thread) __________________ Quote: Originally Posted by zenjen "It's one of those nuts and uncles deals..." troy safari carpente screwed with this post 03-06-2012 at 02:40 AM Reason: change entry list

02-24-2012, 01:09 AM	#11
troy safari carpente ^OP Team f5ool Joined: Nov 2005 Location: f5ederation of scandwegia Oddometer: 13,992	NEWS - RAID DESIGNS EXPO & OVES MOTOR "open house"... in conjunction with VÅRRUNDAN 2012 "Spring Thaw Ride"... Olofström, Blekinge, SWEDEN. Saturday 31st March, 2012. http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18060515&postcount=11 http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18060534&postcount=12 __________________ Quote: Originally Posted by zenjen "It's one of those nuts and uncles deals..."

02-26-2012, 01:33 PM	#12
troy safari carpente ^OP Team f5ool Joined: Nov 2005 Location: f5ederation of scandwegia Oddometer: 13,992	Vårrundan 2012... roadbook survey trip... Just got back from a weekend of doing the final roadbook survey for Vårrundan... __________________ Quote: Originally Posted by zenjen "It's one of those nuts and uncles deals..."

03-06-2012, 02:39 AM	#14
troy safari carpente ^OP Team f5ool Joined: Nov 2005 Location: f5ederation of scandwegia Oddometer: 13,992	Entry list... still open Vårrundan 2012 confirmed entries: Updated list - as of the 5th of March Entered: 46 riders. ENTRIES CLOSED 10th March __________________ Quote: Originally Posted by zenjen "It's one of those nuts and uncles deals..." troy safari carpente screwed with this post 03-12-2012 at 12:46 AM

03-12-2012, 12:45 AM	#15
troy safari carpente ^OP Team f5ool Joined: Nov 2005 Location: f5ederation of scandwegia Oddometer: 13,992	VÅRRUNDAN 2012 - "Spring Thaw Ride" participants: Startlist - Vårrundan 2012 at close of entries - till 10th mars 57 riders. David P HUSABERG FE 570 Hellracer HUSABERG FE 450 Danne 123 KTM 950 SE BigDick64 KLX 650 Stefan C KTM 640 ADV Tuborg HONDA XR 650R Konfucious BMW G650X ctbr KTM 990 ADV Lämmeln KTM 690 R geik KTM 400 EXC Trebor KTM 625 SXC Jens S KTM 950 SE Svart KTM 450 EXC 690RR Norge KTM 690 Rallye Duddan KTM 950 SE Relocx KTM 525 EXC Imperius KTM 525 EXC Tombestone KTM 300 EXC Marlboro Man BMW 650 GS Xman XTZ 660 Tenere Tore KTM 990 ADV ATHolst HONDA XRV 650 The Wanderer KTM 690 Zeb Macahan KTM 690 Mr Ranger YAMAHA TT600R Borsiin Sr KTM 450 EXC Jocke RR YAM WR 450F Dino KTM 640 Chrille-L KTM 640 Adv Putte O YAMAHA XTZ 750 Lalle BMW GS 1200 Alvinmotor YAMAHA XT 400 Tolan KTM 690 Sway SUZUKI DRZ 400 Musicman BMW 450 Lasso BMW F650GS Dakar The Bunny KTM 525 EXC Fistequist Honda XR650R Biffalo Bull Suzuki DR600S MartinP Suzuki DR650 SÅJ Kawasaki KLX 450 Gurra KTM 990 ADV R Hiis KTM 690 E nictor BMW F650GS Dakar OVES MOTOR Ted OVES MOTOR Uffe Mudface Husa Hagenblad KTM Sicarius Honda XRV750 Jonas G Hva TE450 Max Honda XR650 XT Claes Yamaha XT660RR Jonatan KTM 500 Sixdays Rickard C KTM 525 SUNE Honda XR650R Peter D Honda Africa Twin zaik KTM 450 sixdays Volunteers: Troy Carin Melissa Camron Mekano-son __________________ Quote: Originally Posted by zenjen "It's one of those nuts and uncles deals..."

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