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Old 03-18-2012, 08:35 AM   #31
klaviator
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Originally Posted by thumpty dumpty View Post
Odd that nobody seems to love it...you just decribed riding a bus.
Actually, I may have just described having a professional driver and a limo. Some people prefer to be drivers, and some passengers. No doubt a large percentage of drivers would prefer to be passengers and would take that limo if they could afford it. For those of you who ride, how many would prefer to be passengers???
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Old 04-03-2012, 07:30 AM   #32
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Here's what happens when people become too dependent on modern technology:






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klaviator screwed with this post 04-03-2012 at 11:28 AM
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Old 04-03-2012, 08:38 AM   #33
cliffy109
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Originally Posted by B.Curvin View Post
There is only one answer. Remove seatbelts, airbags, crumple zones, traction control, etc etc.

Equip all new cars with a sharpened (then allowed to rust) rail road spike mounted in the center of the steering wheel.

Drivers will improve.

I am not being sarcastic.
I work for a Toyota dealership and there is a training guy who makes a similar argument. He thinks that putting a sword in 1 out of every 10 airbags and telling customers that they have a 10% chance that they will be impaled in a collision would put an end to red light running. Sounds like you might have heard a similar training class. LOL.
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:24 AM   #34
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oh fuck that shit.
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Old 04-03-2012, 03:06 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by klaviator View Post
Here's what happens when people become too dependent on modern technology:

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Old 04-03-2012, 03:15 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
Driver- or Rider- training is never going to be effective as a one-time deal, which is why pilots (and soldiers) train continuously.

Improving driver [rider] training means extending it beyond basics and into refreshers... at the very least, people practicing the skills they have.
This ^^^^

It's all about attitude and always has been. Better roads and advances in vehicle technologies sure make life more pleasant but won't stop idiots being idiots.
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Old 04-04-2012, 11:42 AM   #37
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what we need is all the same tech, just fewer people.

Zombie apocalypse! Just imagine if there were only 2.5 million cars on the road and 3 million people?

Of course most of you ff's would be dead or soon to be dead zombies but eh.. gotta break a few eggs.
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Old 04-04-2012, 12:14 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by dbuzz View Post
Better roads and advances in vehicle technologies sure make life more pleasant but won't stop idiots being idiots.
No, but they do a fine job of mitigating the effects of "idiocy"; or more accurately "errors that all drivers make with varying frequency".

For example, an "idiot" driving a car is distracted on a rainy day and looks up to see that your bike is stopped at a red light in front of him. He panics and jumps on the brakes.

If he does not have ABS, his stopping distance is longer, and he will be more likely to hit you.

If he does have ABS, the result of the same "idiot" move of not paying attention and then standing on the brakes would likely be a near-miss rather than a collision.

Technology is an effective way to prevent unsafe conditions, and to reduce the impact when an unsafe condition occurs. This is why literally every safety program in the world uses both technology/hardware solutions and operator training in combination to reduce the chances of injury.

To the guys who are advocating goofball notions along the lines of "replace all airbags with land mines" or "get rid of all electronic driver aids" - have you ditched all your smoke alarms and fire extinguishers in order to encourage fire prevention and damage mitigation solely through behavior modification?

Would you also encourage factory managers to get rid of machine guarding, light curtains, and safety glasses in order to force employees to "stop being idiots" and take responsibility for their actions etc?
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Old 04-04-2012, 03:15 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by gmiguy View Post
If he does not have ABS, his stopping distance is longer, and he will be more likely to hit you.

If he does have ABS, the result of the same "idiot" move of not paying attention and then standing on the brakes would likely be a near-miss rather than a collision.
I see you have the same incorrect understanding of ABS as most people.

Repeat after me: "The purpose of ABS is not to provide a shorter stopping distance". Say that a few times until you get the meaning of it. ABS- Antilock Braking System. ABS. ANTILOCK, not AWESOME.

Statistics show this to be true: Given a car with ABS, the average schmuck will drive in a more reckless manner, because hey- he's got technology! to save him! when he fucks up!
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Old 04-04-2012, 04:28 PM   #40
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Old 04-04-2012, 05:57 PM   #41
gmiguy
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Originally Posted by dwoodward View Post
I see you have the same incorrect understanding of ABS as most people.

Repeat after me: "The purpose of ABS is not to provide a shorter stopping distance". Say that a few times until you get the meaning of it. ABS- Antilock Braking System. ABS. ANTILOCK, not AWESOME.
I understand the purpose of ABS. I also understand its effects on unskilled driver stopping distances.

On a car, on wet pavement, being driven by somebody who doesn't know what threshold braking is much less how to do it? ABS will almost certainly reduce the stopping distance vs what the same person would have been able to do without it.

Seeing as how it turns "4 wheels locked skid" into "maximum use of available traction for braking", what do you expect the result of ABS engagement will be in the situation I described above?
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Old 04-04-2012, 06:53 PM   #42
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ABS on a car also allows you to steer and brake hard simultaneously, which the average schmuck can't do. You guys are giving the average cage driver way too much credit, they need all the technological help they can get and then some!
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Old 04-08-2012, 06:27 AM   #43
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