Is ATGATT overrated?

[fuelish]

It would be interesting to see a survey that had: How long have you ridden, what kind of riding(urban, weekend fun ride, daily commuter, touring, highway) with percentages of each type, what kind of gear worn and when, type of bike, training(MSF, track days, etc), total mileage/annual mileage, accidents with descriptions(and auto accidents as well), perception of riding skill. If it is complete enough, we might even get some solid answers.

[TrashCan]

Originally Posted by anotherguy

And sometimes that's surprisingly slow isn't it?

You got me there.

[Dreaded 1]

I wear ATGATT and I insist that my son and grandson do as well, I buy their bikes so I have some say, but I really don't give a rats a$$ what anyone else wears or what they ride. I don't understand why people insist on trying to force their beliefs on others. When I started to ride 46 years ago no one that I knew could afford a new bike or fancy gear. On the week-ends it was smorgasbord of old dirt bikes, street bikes, road bikes and race bikes and mostly work clothes but we all had fun and no one preached.

[Wraith Rider]

Originally Posted by fuelish

It would be interesting to see a survey that had: How long have you ridden, what kind of riding(urban, weekend fun ride, daily commuter, touring, highway) with percentages of each type, what kind of gear worn and when, type of bike, training(MSF, track days, etc), total mileage/annual mileage, accidents with descriptions(and auto accidents as well), perception of riding skill. If it is complete enough, we might even get some solid answers.

Here we go:
Riding for 10 years since the age of 16. Everything from daily commuting over daily trips to thousands of miles long holiday tours on all kinds of paved roads. I'm considering my skill level as average but my enthusiasm as above average with around 10k miles a year and ~90k miles total.
Driving school is obligatory here as are helmets and I have "full gear" (armored textile jacket and pants, over-ankle motorcycle specific shoes but not boots cause I walk around in them quite a lot, thin leather gloves, full face helmet). Often changed the pants for leather jeans, especially in the first half of the 10 years, now I'm tending to stay with the armored pants because they are not that uncomfortable - most times I change my clothes when I leave home no matter what, so why not take the more armored ones.
But, when in the mood and riding only through the city I sometimes am without anything at all. At school after physical education I loved to ride through the city park without any gear, having my helmet hanging aside the bike, as I nowadays like a bit of city cruising on a warm summer evening without or when riding home->petrol station->supermarket->home.

Coming to the crashes:
Uncounted times falling over on gravel, snow and ice espacially in the first years. One big crash at the age of 17, fork deformed, footpeg broken off, ankle sprained, big scratches in the helmet at the temple.
2 car crashes, one in winter and one out of plain stupid daydreaming on the highway, both ending in the crash barrier UNbelted. Demolished the pedals, centre console, bented the front passenger door from the inside and got away with only a less than finger tip small bruise.
I have been driving 190mph on a motorcycle, so why should I bother to belt on in a cage.

['05Train]

Originally Posted by fuelish

It would be interesting to see a survey that had: How long have you ridden, what kind of riding(urban, weekend fun ride, daily commuter, touring, highway) with percentages of each type, what kind of gear worn and when, type of bike, training(MSF, track days, etc), total mileage/annual mileage, accidents with descriptions(and auto accidents as well), perception of riding skill. If it is complete enough, we might even get some solid answers.

Riding since I was 8 (36 years ago), first 10 years were dirt only. Various street bikes since then, everything from standards to cruisers to tourers to crotch rockets to sport tourers. Average around 30,000 miles a year in commuting, general pleasure riding, and long trips. I've always been a stickler on boots and gloves, until the big wreck 4 months ago, I wore some combination of jeans, kevlar jeans, and chaps, with heated overpants (with armor) in the winter. Every jacket I own has (and has had) armor in it, but in hot weather I was in a t-shirt (sometimes with sleeves). Half helmet in warm weather, full helmet in the cold, no helmet in states that don't require them.

I've done a couple of MSF courses, and practice on my own using the Harris Papers and other teaching materials. I consider myself to be a decent rider.

[perterra]

Originally Posted by fuelish

It would be interesting to see a survey that had: How long have you ridden, what kind of riding(urban, weekend fun ride, daily commuter, touring, highway) with percentages of each type, what kind of gear worn and when, type of bike, training(MSF, track days, etc), total mileage/annual mileage, accidents with descriptions(and auto accidents as well), perception of riding skill. If it is complete enough, we might even get some solid answers.

For many here it would require a post the length of a novel.

how long, have ridden 42 years

what kind of riding, every kind. There have been times I didn't own a cage. Don't have a clue on percentage. I'll just say I didn't ride dirt on the Goldwing and I didn't tour two up on the Suzuki TS-250

Gear, depends. If I'm traveling it will be pretty much everything from flip up helmet to armored pants and jacket, if I'm running to the hardware store it will be 3/4 helmet and gloves.

MSF years ago

Mileage, don't have a clue, have ridden as much as 50,000 miles a year to as little as 5,000 miles a year

Cant recall the last accident I had, cant recall the last accident I had in a cage.

My perception of my riding skills, not the best, not the worst. Could give a shit less about adrenaline, speed or making sure theres no chicken strips on the tires.

I use my bike to explore, not have a Walter Mitty boy racer experience.

[Alton]

I moved up to ATGATT a few years ago and I'm glad I did. Last year my bike threw a rod and seized at 70mph. Not sure who in the world has the skill to avoid that one.

My cordura jacket looked like swiss cheese and my leather pants were worn almost through in several places. My leather gloves are covered in small holes. I walked away with a chipped ankle bone.

Had I not been ATGATT, I would have looked like that poster girl that has shown up several times in the thread.

ATGATT is not overrated. However, I'm not going to tell you that you need to be ATGATT. If wearing the gear is too much hassle for you, hey, you're an adult and its your choice. Like many safety measures, as an adult you should have the right to choose your level of protection as long as it doesn't put anyone else at risk.

[NJ-Brett]

Riding 41 years.
On the street for 37 years.
No gear ever other then a 3/4 helmet, and cold weather gear.
Average miles per year 15,000 or more.
10% commuting (used to not have a car), 20% long trips, 10% running to the store, 60% fun rides.
I ride year round.
I have been to about 40 states on a bike.

I was never in an accident involving another vehicle, low sided on the street twice when I started street riding, in the rain, and very drunk. I then got better at riding drunk and did not crash again.

Average riding skill, except from the standpoint of being able to (street) ride without crashing.
Its been 35 years since my last crash.

No track days, no schooling, no books read, I did some enduro racing.
I like to go fast, street or dirt, or at least, as fast as the bike will go.

I have never crashed a car into something, I did roll one over.
I have had a few cases where someone ran into my car, when I was stopped.

Originally Posted by fuelish

It would be interesting to see a survey that had: How long have you ridden, what kind of riding(urban, weekend fun ride, daily commuter, touring, highway) with percentages of each type, what kind of gear worn and when, type of bike, training(MSF, track days, etc), total mileage/annual mileage, accidents with descriptions(and auto accidents as well), perception of riding skill. If it is complete enough, we might even get some solid answers.

[gfloyd2002]

Impact without back protection in a getoff varies greatly, but 50kN is used as the standard for testing motorcycle gear. Research on spinal injuries suggests that even a direct blow to the spine at 4 kN is enough to cause lumbar fracture. At 10 kN, there roughly a 50% chance of injury. At 50kN, your spine or other bones are toast if you are unlucky enough to sustain impact.

Wear CE rated gear to reduce the risk. The cut-off for the average transmitted peak force in CE II level certification is 9 kN. Some gear, like SAS-TEC measures out at a peak impact transmission of much lower (I think 6 or 7 kN.) If you care about a broken spine, wear gear with CE II rated, or better protection. Will cut your chance of injury by 1/2 . Similar story with other bones (have a friend just out of hospital with broken femur from car turning in front of him, despite his careful riding - he wasn't wearing impact protection on his legs).

Impact reducing character of gear, and the significant reduction of risk to you by wearing it isn't opinion, it is science. Sure, you can be lucky and avoid an accident, or be lucky and keep away from impact. But being lucky doesn't mean you are riding smart. Gear up.

[2aRover]

Overrated? No. ATGATT is about being prepared for what might come along, whether it's hail, heat, or asphalt. Or, yeah, pretty girls watching me strip off my gear. I don't mind being uncomfortable, but pain hurts and I don't like it. I can be out having plenty of other experiences if I'm not messed up.

I don't always make the right decision, and I've crashed twice because of it--once, 400 miles from home in the Columbia River Gorge, with 125 miles to go. I got up, noted that my knee armor was shredded, my glove was abraded, and that I had not a scratch nor a bruise. I rode on to my destination on the coast. Being prepared ensured that the crash was just another event and not a showstopper.

It won't save me from everything, but it's saved my hide, sight, and my face; it's done its job marvelously. I'm one of the prudes: ATGATT regardless of the ride or distance. It's the right thing to do. It isn't my business to preach that to other riders that may not be, even if they are friends, even if they die. It's MY choice. Others get to make their own.

[Gummee!]

Originally Posted by JimVonBaden

This won't end well!

Jim

Religious arguments rarely do

Fireworks commencing soon. Pass the butter m'kay?!

M

[Mr. B]

Originally Posted by Gummee!

Religious arguments rarely do

Fireworks commencing soon. Pass the butter m'kay?!

M

Anything resolved? Deal me out: Unsubscribed.

[Nevada]

Originally Posted by RidingDonkeys

This one always makes me smile. This gal shouldn't be the ATGATT poster child. She should be the "don't do dumb shit" poster child. Every bit of that road rash could have been avoided by using some common sense.

ATGATT isn't about preventing accidents (although a face shield does help a smidge in that department, as do goggles). ATGATT is about what happens after the accident begins. She completely owns "don't do dumb shit", and includes wearing no gear as "dumb shit."

ATGATT is all about minimizing risk. I can't say that I'm ATGATT, but I am "ATGMTT", save for "MoTGTRTT". ALWAYS helmet, gloves, riding jacket. Riding pants and boots, 95% of the trips, 99% of the miles. When I go to lunch from work, I may not wear the boots and pants.

[DAKEZ]

I like to ride motorcycles. I REALLY like to ride motorcycles. I like it so much I will go so far as to take a few normal and rational steps to preserve my ability to ride EVERY day. I believe that it is reasonable and prudent to don a modicum of protective attire to that end.

[Thanantos]

Originally Posted by DAKEZ

I like to ride motorcycles. I REALLY like to ride motorcycles. I like it so much I will go so far as to take a few normal and rational steps to preserve my ability to ride EVERY day. I believe that it is reasonable and prudent to don a modicum of protective attire to that end.

An excellent point I have made to my "T-shirt and jeans" crowd friends before. Add to this that I am an hourly employee and ATGATT just makes sense.