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Old 04-09-2012, 04:20 AM   #7021
900rider
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Joined: Mar 2009
Location: Meadville, PA
Oddometer: 640
I retested the battery before I went to be last night.

0v. Battery is toast.

The big question is why.
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Old 04-09-2012, 09:17 AM   #7022
nattyMo
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Sounds like a nice little combo of problems, sorry to hear of your troubles.

Seems like your fuel pump isn't working. Have you thought to check the float bowls? I'll bet they're dry.

The electrical issue/s sounds like either you batter and/or voltage regulator may have gone south too.

I happen to have my original fuel pump and a spare battery, if you want to try either before spending your $$$ let me know. Send me a PM if you're interested.

I'd try a known good battery, if you still don't hear the fuel pump click and it still won't start, I'd try a known good pump provided the battery is turning the motor over.

NM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 900rider View Post
Well, here's what's going on. These are the details as best as I can remember them. Most from the last two days.

-Fall 2011, bike is starting intermittently. Discussion with the guys at Five Star led me to buy a new battery as the oem one was 5 years old and the bike sat a lot early in it's life. Starting issue solved.

-I put the bike away for the winter intending to start it a few times a month to keep it cleaned out and fresh-ish fuel in the jets. I never ended up doing this and when I finally did get to it it ran on only one cylinder.

-I pulled the carbs and left them at Five Star for cleaning. Jeremy said there was a ton of gunk in there and that they were definitely due for a cleaning.

-I put the carbs back on and finally got to try and start it yesterday. I drained all the old fuel and put in fresh 93 oct. The bike cranked and cranked and cranked and not even a pop! With or without the choke, full throttle or no throttle. I let it sit.

-I start wondering about the fuel pump. I haven't heard it click at all since I did the carb install. With my hand on the pump I can feel it "jerk" when I turn the key to run, but it won't pump up. Disconnecting the fuel line and depressing the white plastic nozzle on the carb side of the line let out fuel so I know some fuel was getting to that side of the connector, just not sure if it was making it to the carbs. I think gravity would be enough to get fuel past the quick disconnect.

-More cranking. No fuel smell at all from either exhaust pipe. I pull the airbox lid (tank still on) and try again. No fuel smell from either carb throat.

-More cranking from frustration which then leads to smoke coming from the starter relay area. Im pretty sure it is some electrical tape I had put on the battery lead. Solenoid will click when i thumb the starter every time, but now the bike will not crank at all. Just clicking.

-I should mention that this whole time the bike has been on a battery tender (since it was installed in the fall) I thought maybe I had drained it enough to keep the relay from working so I turn my attention back to the fuel pump.

-Pull the pump for inspection. Can't really get at the internals so I just undid the screws and sanded all the connections. I moved the plunger up and down to confirm it was free to move.

-Reinstall; the pump and still the bike will not crank, and the pump will not click at all. So basically no change.

-I figure I'll have to get the bike to Five Star somehow.

-Today- I get to thinking about the starter solenoid. I look it over. It seems fine, fuse is good, clicks reliably.

-I notice the battery tender is blinking green (more than 80% charge) It should be solid green (full charge, maintenance mode) since it's been plugged in since the day before (when I cranked the daylights out of it)

I check the battery with a digital meter. 16.xx volts. I unplug the battery tender. 15.5v and rising. WTF.

During all this I turn the key (to check voltage with the starter depressed) and doesn't the pump click like it should and the bike cranks and pretty much starts. I get it running with some choke and measure 16.xx volts while it's running.

-With an uneasy feeling I pull the battery. It's resting voltage seems to be 15.75 volts. Not wanting any trouble I put it in a metal container and put it outside.

I don't even know what questions to ask.

WTF is going on?!?!?!
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Old 04-09-2012, 09:42 AM   #7023
angustoyou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omnivore View Post
Huh? 2nd and 3rd gear restriction? WTF is that?
Check this out, http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23741

Our European bikes get an Electronic Power Control, which effectively reduces the speed that the slides rise in second and third gear. It's designed to quiet the engine down when accelerating in 2nd and 3rd, where our noise level tests are carried out. Of course it also slows acceleration slightly.

The wires telling the ECU that you are in second or third, and so when to activate the power control, are alongside the neutral wire that comes from your gear selection. I'd guess that you don't have these, in the same way as we don't have the evaporative loss charcoal thing in the tail. Snip these wires, and the ECU never finds out you're in second or third...
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Old 04-09-2012, 09:50 AM   #7024
900rider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nattyMo View Post
Sounds like a nice little combo of problems, sorry to hear of your troubles.

Seems like your fuel pump isn't working. Have you thought to check the float bowls? I'll bet they're dry.

The electrical issue/s sounds like either you batter and/or voltage regulator may have gone south too.

I happen to have my original fuel pump and a spare battery, if you want to try either before spending your $$$ let me know. Send me a PM if you're interested.

I'd try a known good battery, if you still don't hear the fuel pump click and it still won't start, I'd try a known good pump provided the battery is turning the motor over.

NM
Next step will be a good battery. It's looking like my battery tender may have some hand in this. I called Battery Tender and asked about output voltage and they said it shouldn't be any more than 15.5v and mine showed 16.7. Can't be good for the battery.

I think this whole time my battery was just smoked and the tender was really running the bike (headlights etc) but not enough output to run the pump and start it. It wasn't long after I pulled the battery that it dropped to 0.0v on the meter.
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:34 PM   #7025
9secondsflat
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so the clicking is a good thing? is that the pump priming the system?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garry View Post
I got warning that my pump was going because it wouldn't "click" many times when turning the key on after the bike had been sitting. When it crapped out for real, it was dead, like you hit the kill switch. Banging on the fuel pump with a stick got the bike to start and run well enough to limp a few miles to the KTM shop (dumb luck).
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:40 PM   #7026
900rider
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Yes. If pressure is down it will click (work the diaphram back and forth to pressurize the system)

If it doesn't click the system is already at the correct pressure.

Or your pump is fragged.

;)
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:52 PM   #7027
EastSideSM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9secondsflat View Post
so the clicking is a good thing? is that the pump priming the system?
Yes, and if it keeps clicking, well then you have run out of gas. Don't ask how I know this...Ok, I'll tell you. I have run out of gas. A few weeks ago I was thinking, boy I have gotten great mileage out of this tank of gas, right before i coasted to a stop...(come to find out my low fuel indicator isn't working!!!) Then like an idiot, I had only put in a couple of gallons, reset the odo and totally forgot I only put in 2 gallons and ran out of gas with 65 miles on the odo and it took me a bit to remmeber that I hadn't had a full tank, and was wracking my brain at first wondering what in the hell is wrong with the bike to run out of gas so quick and started looking for leaks etc.
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Old 04-09-2012, 01:10 PM   #7028
9secondsflat
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is it a true clicking sound or is it a du, du, du sound? I have heard some other 950's make this sound and its when you first turn the key on prior to starting

Quote:
Originally Posted by 900rider View Post
Yes. If pressure is down it will click (work the diaphram back and forth to pressurize the system)

If it doesn't click the system is already at the correct pressure.

Or your pump is fragged.

;)
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Old 04-09-2012, 03:19 PM   #7029
omnivore
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So, a KTM dealer and suspension specialist here in Canada is Enduro Engineering.

I sent him an email asking about internally lowering the forks and shock of the 950SM...and he quoted me $350 inlucing a full shock and fork service.

Good price?
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Old 04-09-2012, 04:36 PM   #7030
Garry
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900rider: I just replaced the battery in my SMR and have the (working) original battery just sitting on a shelf. If you want it, meet me in Cranberry and it's yours (I work within sight of I-79).

RE: fuel pump priming
Yes, it's more a muted noise than a click and they are pretty fast when the system pressure is low (like sitting for a few days). When my pump was going, the number of clicks at key-on was under 10 and slower than normal.
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:13 PM   #7031
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omnivore View Post
So, a KTM dealer and suspension specialist here in Canada is Enduro Engineering.

I sent him an email asking about internally lowering the forks and shock of the 950SM...and he quoted me $350 inlucing a full shock and fork service.

Good price?
I paid over $600 for mine so I'd say it's good.
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Old 04-10-2012, 05:35 AM   #7032
omnivore
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Originally Posted by 6USMC6 View Post
I paid over $600 for mine so I'd say it's good.

Now his email said "Including a full service", which I assume to be fluids, seals, nitro, etc...I don't think there is any re-springing or re-valving in that.
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:42 AM   #7033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omnivore View Post
Now his email said "Including a full service", which I assume to be fluids, seals, nitro, etc...I don't think there is any re-springing or re-valving in that.
Local Ducati shop "lowered" a friends DRZ400SM....all he did was go in and cut the springs an inch.....not good. ( Ya gotta also be concerned with the new swingarm angle and ya can't lower it w/o messing that up a bit)
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:30 AM   #7034
preppypyro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by omnivore View Post
Now his email said "Including a full service", which I assume to be fluids, seals, nitro, etc...I don't think there is any re-springing or re-valving in that.

Make sure ya let us know what ya end up coming up with for a price. I would like to get mine revalved as well, and am always looking for a good deal!
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:54 AM   #7035
900rider
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Battery Update

It's not the Battery Tender. I checked it against a known good one and the output was the same on both. I have reason to believe I may have gotten a faulty reading on my meter because of a low battery.

Looking pretty hard at the battery as the culprit.
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