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Old 04-12-2012, 10:58 AM   #1261
JamesG
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Originally Posted by Fast1 View Post
No different than a modern day two stroke which has less engine braking than a 4 stroke high compression thumper. From my "throw the leg over" at the bike show the tires, suspension and then weight will be detriments in any real challenging offroad riding.
That's my take as well. From the descriptions, it will feel like a two stroke and will be have to shifted like one, especially when used in anger. Kind of like my Buell Uly's powerband (only much less of it), lots of torque but you wind up feeling like you are short shifting it.

Tires and suspension can be fixed. Weights not that much of an issue relative to other ADV bikes. Biggy is the 17" front wheel and the plasticy fairing bits and instrument pod, that doesn't lend itself to being tossed into the dirt.
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:46 PM   #1262
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I'm not sure that the Honda designers ever even considered this bike for off road use. Kinda silly to try and turn it into one. Although, I guess any bike can go off road if you want it to. In all of the advertisements I've seen for this bike this far, their hasn't been any that showed the bike in an off road setting.
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Old 04-12-2012, 01:12 PM   #1263
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But... It has a beak! I has to be an off-road bike right?
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Old 04-12-2012, 01:22 PM   #1264
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But... It has a beak! I has to be an off-road bike right?
DAMN.....the BEAK!!!!!!! How could I have missed it? You're right, its got to have some off road cred with such an awesome beak.
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:34 PM   #1265
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Do we have these in the states yet? Big Red's website says summer, local dealer says August, but a search on Cycle Trader yielded several results. Guess I will call and find out.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:08 PM   #1266
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Once in the dim mists of the past, I noticed that my CL 350 would often sputter & need to go on reserve just after I left work. The first time or two it happened, I just figured I had run it low on the way in to work, but after the third or fourth time, it seemed like too much coincidence. I thought someone must be siphoning my gas, so I put a telltale on the cap, but it was never disturbed, so I started thinking about it. In a conventional tank setup, the engine heat gradually warms the gas in the tank as it rises, after the bike is turned off. In those days I had Boyle's law of gasses & Avogadroe's number in the front of my brain, (long since departed) & access to 18" long, calibrated, mercury lab thermometers. (yes children, this was before thermisters). After parking the bike on an average summer day in New England, I found that the temp in the tank (half full) was 104 F. Even 60 min. later, it was still 100 F. That was on the side stand. Temps were a few higher on the center stand. Taking a fair est. of surface area @ 1/2 tank, & finding vapor press of regular gas, combined with the temp data, I could work out an evap. rate. I figured I could be losing almost 100 cc/ day to the atmosphere, depending on temp, surface area, internal press, (I guessed at 1/8" for the vent hole size) Ever hear the little hiss from the tank after you shut down after a run? That's gas molecules, excited by heat, jumping out that little vent hole into the fresh air. I've heard a lot about the amazing fuel milage of the BMW 800 ST... I suspect a fair amount of that, might be due to the fact that the tank is under the seat & out of the rising heat from the motor as it cools. Underseat tanks might not only aid mass centralization, but also help milage. BTW...please don't ask me to repeat this experiment, my few remaining brain cells can barely pull up my zip code.
100 CC's = 3.38 ounces. If a bike gets 50 mpg, that means a complete evaporative cycle as you describe it causes 1.32 mpg to be lost through evaporation each time the half full fuel tank is allowed to go through a full heat cycle (50/128 = .39 miles per ounce of fuel x 3.38 = 1.32). This does not account for the percentage of vapor not lost due to condensation of the vapor in the venting system with the possibility that some of that condensate is drawn back into the tank as it cools.

While that certainly had the potential to effect fuel mileage, I suspect it was almost inconsequential. Precision is what accounts for the comparatively stellar mileage achieved by a bike like the 800 ST. Precision in combustion chamber design, precision in control of fuel and air delivery achieved by modern fuel injection, precision in the regulation of engine temperature, precision in machining to reduce frictional losses, and also the introduction of much, much better lubricants.

Nowadays many motorcycles are equipped with evaporative emission systems to capture those precious fuel vapors and return them to the intake to become part of the combustion process, as they were originally intended. Many of us who've owned BMW motorcycles over the last 12 or so years have had the charcoal canister clog. This very situation happened to me on a 10 day trip across Eastern Canada, the Maritimes, and New England. On an injected vehicle the fuel pump is strong enough to keep pumping until the pressure in the tank becomes so low the tank actually starts to collapse. That was how I discovered my clogged canister. I had to pry the gas cap open at the gas station, only to hear the whooshing sound as the tank refilled with air. The interesting thing about all of this is for the subsequent month in which the evaporative system was disconnected (while I waited for parts and the time to get to the dealer) and vented to the atmosphere there was no perceptible difference in fuel economy.
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Old 04-13-2012, 04:10 PM   #1267
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The more I research this bike, the more I think it is for me. I can look past the fuel-filler being under the seat considering the gas mileage that is being reported for this bike. I won't be ready to buy until the middle of the summer, right about the time this is supposed to be released.

How does this bike handle the higher speeds? Does it buzz alot around 70? If one of our Euro ADV'ers can give me some insight on that I would greatly appreciate it. That is probably the key issue for me considering my commute to school includes a stretch of superslab.
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Old 04-14-2012, 06:53 PM   #1268
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Congrats Dorsi. I am considering picking one up when it comes to the states. So it is performing well in commuter traffic and in traffic at higher speeds? I ask that because part of my commute is stop and go and part is superslab at 80mph. Do you think it would work for me?
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Old 04-14-2012, 07:23 PM   #1269
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I was just on Hondas site & it looks like the U.S. is only going to get the silver & black option. That just sold a 650 Versys if it's true. I can deal with it being under powered but, I'm not a fan of the bikes look. The white/black & the red/black models struck me as something "similar" to attractive but, the silver/black one screams out "bland" to me.

The trunk space between the legs will surely prove useful but, my first trip was going to be to a machine shop to try to fabricate an extra fuel cell for that space. This bike is screaming out to me because I want the reliability of a Honda & the low reving engine will probably hit 100,000 miles easily. However, I've had several bikes from each of the big four & I don't think Honda is THAT much better than any of them.

The versys seems like a better bike in every way except MPGs. I thought the Versys was ugly at first but, when they redesigned the head light in 2010, I was shocked at how much better looking it got. I don't need a Busa but, G-forces are fun to play with & MPGs alone will not put a "bland" (IMO) machine in my garage. I really hope Honda gives U.S. the option of white/black &,or red/black because that will be just enough to tip the scales for me.
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Old 04-14-2012, 07:38 PM   #1270
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Why do you hate krylon?
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Old 04-14-2012, 09:14 PM   #1271
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I wonder how much longer bike makers can virtually ignore what's happening in car mileage. The NC700 makes a move towards high efficiency, 70 mpg, or maybe more, and that's commendable. My 250cc scooter gets that, so it is even more impressive. BUT...Mazda has the "Skyactive" engine in their Mazda 3 now, 160 hp, and it easily is getting 45 mpg. In Japan now, and allegedly coming to the US next year, is the Mazda 2 with the 1.3 85 HP Skyactive engine (interesting tech descriptions BTW) that gets 70 mpg. (vs the current 1.5 100 hp 40 mpg engine). I am not saying that spells doom for hybrids and TDI cars, but it is a significant achievement, one that I wonder bike makers will start to think about. I'd love to have a 350-400cc 35-40 hp 300-350 lb road bike that gets 100 mpg. To me, there's something wrong with owning and operating a bike that gets worse mileage than a car.
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Old 04-14-2012, 09:15 PM   #1272
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Why do you hate krylon?
Paint a motorcycle?

What a silly idea.
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Old 04-14-2012, 09:17 PM   #1273
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I wonder how much longer bike makers can virtually ignore what's happening in car mileage. The NC700 makes a move towards high efficiency, 70 mpg, or maybe more, and that's commendable. My 250cc scooter gets that, so it is even more impressive. BUT...Mazda has the "Skyactive" engine in their Mazda 3 now, 160 hp, and it easily is getting 45 mpg. In Japan now, and allegedly coming to the US next year, is the Mazda 2 with the 1.3 85 HP Skyactive engine (interesting tech descriptions BTW) that gets 70 mpg. (vs the current 1.5 100 hp 40 mpg engine). I am not saying that spells doom for hybrids and TDI cars, but it is a significant achievement, one that I wonder bike makers will start to think about. I'd love to have a 350-400cc 35-40 hp 300-350 lb road bike that gets 100 mpg. To me, there's something wrong with owning and operating a bike that gets worse mileage than a car.
Bikes have crap aerodynamics.
Unless you do a significant streamliner fairing a bike
is at a significant aero disadvantage to the latest cars
that have .25 or lower drag coefficients.
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Old 04-14-2012, 09:22 PM   #1274
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Yes, they do have crap aero numbers. OK; I'll settle for 30 hp and 300 lbs out of 400cc that gets 100 mpg - I think that is doable.
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Old 04-14-2012, 10:06 PM   #1275
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Yes, they do have crap aero numbers. OK; I'll settle for 30 hp and 300 lbs out of 400cc that gets 100 mpg - I think that is doable.
250 Ninja, for one. Check this out.

http://www.craigvetter.com/pages/201...liner-p50.html
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