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Old 04-14-2012, 08:24 PM   #16
SleazyRider
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good...a lot of those sailboats plying the gap are a complete effing ripoff
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Old 04-15-2012, 05:53 PM   #17
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To everybody,

I cannot endorse yet (until confirmed) the veracity of this communication but, we have received from PAN AMERICAN FERRY, the following communication, regarding the so announced ferry from/to COLON-CARTAGENA

I know that a few inmates consider my post SPAMS, However this for the health of ADV , and the Latin America forum

Message from PAN AMERICAN FERRY:


As of April 17, our Call Center can answer your questions regarding rates and hotel packages in Cartagena the number 380-0900 during business hours Monday through Saturday from 8:00 am - 5:00 pm.
Any other information you need, write to: reservas@panaferry.com


Thanks
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Old 04-15-2012, 06:22 PM   #18
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Here's a startling bit of information to contemplate (scroll down to post #9):

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...colombia-61593
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Old 04-15-2012, 07:33 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by markharf View Post
Here's a startling bit of information to contemplate (scroll down to post #9):

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...colombia-61593
Holy crap!
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Old 04-15-2012, 07:35 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by markharf View Post
Here's a startling bit of information to contemplate (scroll down to post #9):

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...colombia-61593
wow.


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Old 04-15-2012, 07:40 PM   #21
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"Holy crap!" and "Wow!" are more printable versions of my initial response. I asked what boat he'd been planning to take because there've been turf wars before on that run, and all is not necessarily what it seems. I'd add that there are other possible ports of call, depending.

But still....
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:47 PM   #22
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What about the Pacific side and the route Cruthas took?
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:14 AM   #23
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Over on the List of Sailboats and Captains thread, while a few idiots thought I was trying to sell real estate, what I was trying to say was that the face of tourism in Panama is changing. I knew that Cocuye wouldn't be friendly to smelly bikers and budget backpackers. I knew that companies like Colon 2000 wanted to expand towards San Blas. I didn't know Colombia would actually ban motorcycle transport by private sailboat.

Now a few things are looking more clear. For example:

Most tourism in Panama is not US based. Colombia and Venezuela supply more tourists than the US. The two biggest tourism companies are Colon 2000 and Decameron. Colon 2000 operates out of Colon, and primarily caters to cruise ships. Decameron is a Club Med style of resort, with main facilities near Coronado, on the Pacific. The guys who run both companies are SHREWD. Their stated business plan is to capture every possible $ from their guests; apparently, one way they plan to guarantee success is to block everyone else from being able to do business, even just transport a motorcycle on a sailboat.

Decameron already bought a big chunk of Cocuye. The new resort is supposed to be opening in a year. Probably in 2 years, not one, though.

It looks, to me, like the ferry will be more tourism-based than immigration-based, and the primary beneficiaries will be the luxury resorts and the adventure travel companies, primarily Colon 2000, with support from the bug Panama hotels and casinos. The Free Zone in Colon will also benefit. They are betting on demand from Colombians- they have to be, because Panama has less than 3 million people, certainly not enough to support a ferry.

By the way, I'm just saying what I'm guessing, and I'm not selling anything. I'm not affiliated with Decameron or Colon 2000. Although my uncles own Cocuye, I'm not in any way connected to the sale, and I've actually tried to persuade them to keep it private and wild.
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Old 04-16-2012, 06:35 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by bananaman View Post
I didn't know Colombia would actually ban motorcycle transport by private sailboat..
Just a small correction, but I believe this has always technically been against the law, but just tolerated as it hasn't caused many problems and it filled a necessary gap in transportation options. One of the boat captains explained it to me, but I can't remember exactly what the issue with the law is. It was something to do with being licensed to carry cargo and if you are a cargo ship licensed to operate in Colombia you cannot carry passengers and cargo at the same time. This is the reason some of the people piecing small coastal freighter runs together to get from panama to colombia have had to put their bike in one outboard and themselves in another outboard for the last leg from Capurgana to Turbo.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:02 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Airhead Wrangler View Post
Just a small correction, but I believe this has always technically been against the law, but just tolerated as it hasn't caused many problems and it filled a necessary gap in transportation options. One of the boat captains explained it to me, but I can't remember exactly what the issue with the law is. It was something to do with being licensed to carry cargo and if you are a cargo ship licensed to operate in Colombia you cannot carry passengers and cargo at the same time. This is the reason some of the people piecing small coastal freighter runs together to get from panama to colombia have had to put their bike in one outboard and themselves in another outboard for the last leg from Capurgana to Turbo.
Well, I actually didn't know this. It does make sense that licenses should be required. I always thought that the small, private sailboats weren't licensed though- that they were like those illegal taxicabs.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:07 AM   #26
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The way the SteelRat got around this problem when they last left for Cuba in early April when all this talk was going on after visiting with Lulu was saying that each person coming aboard was just going to be part of the organization, a card carrying crew member, and taking along their "personal effects" aka motorbikes.
Every ship needs their crew and I can't believe the transport of motorbikes on private vessels is coming to a complete stop. I just bet more captains will be "hiring" more crew who just happen to have motorbikes as personal baggage.

The other option will always be just be leaving out of another port all together and avoid Cartagena with it's new ferry or make the short run to Sapzurro and the launcha ride over to Turbo. I think it will be very hard to stop the loading and leaving out of Kuna Yaula unless the Panama immigration/aduana enforce it as well. Both aduanas will have to be the primary stopping point of the private boat motorbike shipping.

Will be more than interesting to see how this new ferry turns out.

John still in nice and sunny Medellin, Colombia at Mike's awesome new place up on the hill relaxing and riding a bit more before my Visa is ready.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:41 AM   #27
Airhead Wrangler
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Originally Posted by bananaman View Post
Well, I actually didn't know this. It does make sense that licenses should be required. I always thought that the small, private sailboats weren't licensed though- that they were like those illegal taxicabs.
Again, I'm a bit fuzzy on the details, but it wasn't so much the licenses, but more to do with mixing cargo and passengers on the same boat. Obviously, I never got a full understanding of it as I rode from Capurgana to Turbo in the same outboard as my bike. ???
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:57 AM   #28
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What a shame !!!
Such a nice way to cross the Darien, visiting the San Blas Islands while crossing the Darien and taking your moto with you.
I guess if you analize the issue without emotions, this ban does make sense. This type of transportation (Cargo and Passengers) using small sailing boats are not ideal as far as security goes.
Well, lucky those (including me) who have experienced it.

Let's see if they are able to control the maritime borders between Panama and Colombia.


Quote:
Originally Posted by markharf View Post
Here's a startling bit of information to contemplate (scroll down to post #9):

http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hub...colombia-61593
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:45 AM   #29
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Such a nice way to cross the Darien, visiting the San Blas Islands while crossing the Darien and taking your moto with you.
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:56 AM   #30
bananaman
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Originally Posted by luciosiq View Post
What a shame !!!
Such a nice way to cross the Darien, visiting the San Blas Islands while crossing the Darien and taking your moto with you.
I guess if you analize the issue without emotions, this ban does make sense. This type of transportation (Cargo and Passengers) using small sailing boats are not ideal as far as security goes.
Well, lucky those (including me) who have experienced it.

Let's see if they are able to control the maritime borders between Panama and Colombia.
Your Mileage May Vary is, here, an understatement!

Somehow, by luck, experience, and design, you and Paula had an almost perfect attitude to go with your great experience. Others... not so much!

Did you know that the road you took- that horrible "road" from El Llano to Carti- has been paved, and there are bridges over the rivers? You can now drive a sedan to Carti. This is what I lament, for us "adventure riders," but the reality is that "progress" is helping the people who live there.

Whether or not non-Indians should be living in the jungle is an argument I'll take up over a beer some time.
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