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Old 04-26-2012, 05:05 AM   #1
rivercreep OP
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When did we stop appreciating...

...motorcycling for what it is?

I don't want this thread to turn into an anti-technology thread as I feel there are some truely good things that have been developed to enhance our (insert, "lifestyle", "sport", "hobby" or whatever you call it, here).

As of late, I keep reading more and more posts where Guys are complaining about comfort in general, and making comments about certain sizes/styles of Bikes not being suitable for hwy. travel or extended trips.

It's maddening at the best!

I've watched drivers in cages become ever worse drivers; (despite the technological advances there) and we're at the point where those vehicles themselves allow drivers to only use 1/2 ther brain for driving while they multi-task and put other users of the roads at risk.

What's maddening to me, is that I see the same things happening within motorcycling and those same cage drivers are finding their way here and whining about the pure nature of our vehicles.
Seriously! ...W.T.F.?...Wind noise, seat comfort, vibrations, lack of protection from the elements, ...and you want factory locations to plug in your electronc B.S. distraction devices here as well?!


As a society in general, I feel we're using technology as a crutch to become lazier and lazier and watching motorcycles follow the same trends as cages I.M.H.O. this is NOT going to end well.

Motorcycles are vehicles that require skill to operate and attention to your riding environment.

The last thing I want to see is the pussification of our Bikes (which is already happening) that will allow anyone to bring their bad cage driving habits to our (insert your nomenclature, here)

You guys bitch about loud pipes and how they put your right to ride at risk (and I agree!) but what about increasingly bad riders who allow themselves to be distracted while riding who lack the skills necessary to actually ride and not turn themselves into 2 wheeled missles that can kill people.

Sorry this is soooo long winded but, I had to let this all out. (snapped on another post recently and had to apologize there)

I'm curious how the ADV collective feels about the loss of appreciation for what motorcycling is about.
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Old 04-26-2012, 05:24 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rivercreep View Post
...


I'm curious how the ADV collective feels about the loss of appreciation for what motorcycling is about.



If you never had it, how could you lose it???

The times they are a changing...

Not every body grew up ridng with 2 extra spark plugs to change on the road when their 2 stroke fouled one.

This was in the days when 30wt was used for pre-mix.

Kick start only...

Let the past be the past.

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Old 04-26-2012, 05:37 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rivercreep View Post
As a society in general, I feel we're using technology as a crutch to become lazier and lazier
This has been the trend since the first humans broke rocks into knives to make cutting and tearing easier.


Some things (like sweating) are just going to come with riding a motorcycle and trying to avoid them are more trouble than they're worth. (I'm making faces at you, Veskimo et al).

Other things, like a wind noise problem or "off" seat shape are easily correctable through the aftermarket. The manufacturers could take steps to make them better stock (adjustable screens, seat forms from the dealer, etc).

As for appreciating what motorcycling "is about" - it is about commuting for me. Ride your own ride, as they say.
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Old 04-26-2012, 05:58 AM   #4
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I got lost, you need an executive summary. Myself I like comfort. Why would anyone choose to uncomfortable when you don't have to be? No thanks, I'll sit on the floor, in front of the couch.
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:09 AM   #5
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Its normal for senior riders to appreciate the art of motorcycle ring as they have experience of the past. Some bounce back to the vintage or classic rides because they miss the vib or the patina of vintage tin. Myself, I don't need a fuel guage or a digital number on the dash to tell me what gear I'm in. I don't need a green neutral light. Turn signals and four way flashers are a nice safety item but I could ride just as safe without them.
I remember riding my old Triumph Bonniville when it was new and my first BMW (R90-S). Crusing and touring in the late 60's through the 70's was alot different than it is now.
Motorcycles have made a tremendous transition over the past 40 yrs and the new riders can't see that because they have no history of riding the classics in classic days.
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:20 AM   #6
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TOTALLY respect and welcome what you're saying-- honest!-- BUT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by rivercreep View Post
As of late, I keep reading more and more posts where Guys are complaining about comfort in general, and making comments about certain sizes/styles of Bikes not being suitable for hwy. travel or extended trips.
Not all bikes are designed to do certain things. Not all bikes designed to do one thing do it better than others.

If I want a highway-mile eating touring bike, I'm going to be interested in a good highway-mile eating touring bike. Ditto dirt, dual-sport, etc., etc. Different tools for different jobs. Hell, different bikes for different *moods*.

Quote:
What's maddening to me, is that I see the same things happening within motorcycling and those same cage drivers are finding their way here and whining about the pure nature of our vehicles.
There are plenty of "pure" motorcycles still available. There are "unpure" (?) motorcycles available as well. To each their own.

Quote:
Seriously! ...W.T.F.?...Wind noise, seat comfort, vibrations, lack of protection from the elements, ...and you want factory locations to plug in your electronc B.S. distraction devices here as well?!
21st century, man. Why be miserable if you don't have to be? Why be lost if you don't have to be?

Priests may be closest to God, but thank goodness not everyone has to be celibate to know grace.

Quote:
As a society in general, I feel we're using technology as a crutch to become lazier and lazier and watching motorcycles follow the same trends as cages I.M.H.O. this is NOT going to end well.
A defensible opinion. Me, I use technology to be safer and be more comfortable (ALSO a safety factor when riding atop fire-belching steel at 80 mph), allowing me to better enjoy my ride.

Quote:
Motorcycles are vehicles that require skill to operate and attention to your riding environment.
No different than cars. Or bicycles. Or... heck, I still need to watch where my feet go when I walk!

Quote:
The last thing I want to see is the pussification of our Bikes (which is already happening) that will allow anyone to bring their bad cage driving habits to our (insert your nomenclature, here)
Because motorcycle riders never had bad habits before bikes got "pussified"?

Quote:
You guys bitch about loud pipes and how they put your right to ride at risk (and I agree!) but what about increasingly bad riders who allow themselves to be distracted while riding who lack the skills necessary to actually ride and not turn themselves into 2 wheeled missles that can kill people.
Was there ever a golden age of motorcycling? Because plenty of people around these parts sure seem to remember one.

I started riding much too late, obviously I missed it, but I'd love to hear a year. Was it in 1975? 1955? 1925? How good were the bikes in this "golden age"?

How many riders died-- unnecessarily, I might suggest-- in this "golden age"?

How good were "cage" drivers in this "golden age"? Did they never turn left in front of bikes back then? Were they never distracted by radios or coffee or screaming kids jumping around in the backseat?

Throw out a year, throw out the models of bikes, and we can have an informed discussion. Otherwise, we'll just stay off your lawn .

Quote:
I'm curious how the ADV collective feels about the loss of appreciation for what motorcycling is about.
I haven't lost my appreciation for motorcycling. If anything, grows every day, with every new bike I add to my crowded driveway. I *love* my high-tech rides just as much as I love my low-tech ones. Telling me to choose between the two is like telling me to choose between my nail gun and my hammer-- both have their time and place.
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:21 AM   #7
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The problem is: You completely misjudge "what motorcycling is about". No one ever stopped appreciating it.
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:21 AM   #8
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Some might argue that riding a motorcycle is being lazy....its a "technology" that was developed to make travel easier and faster. Why not ride a bicycle?? or walk for that matter???

As technology advances we always seem to look back at the good old days when things were simpler. Its all relative. Future generations may look back at the EFI/ABS/TC bike as the good old days.....


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Old 04-26-2012, 06:27 AM   #9
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yep. and traction control should be banned from all motorbike racing too.
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:45 AM   #10
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I don't know if it makes riders any less skilled but I do know its a real bad idea to play with gizmo's like gps while riding. There have been a number of threads in faceplant dealing with crashes while fooling with a gps.
I personally do not need or want gps, abs, traction control, windshields, water cooling, electric start, fuel injection, music, but heated grips might be nice on cold days.

I somehow managed to ride around the US without any of that stuff and had fun
No luggage, no rain gear, no problems.
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:51 AM   #11
JimVonBaden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrashCan View Post
If you never had it, how could you lose it???

The times they are a changing...

Not every body grew up ridng with 2 extra spark plugs to change on the road when their 2 stroke fouled one.

This was in the days when 30wt was used for pre-mix.

Kick start only...

Let the past be the past.



If that is your thing, great! It is NOT everyone's thing.

Personally I like the modern bike's features. I like the old bikes too, but every time I buy one I remember why I like the modern ones. They usually do not handle as well, stop or go as well, and break all the time.

Jim
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:53 AM   #12
ph0rk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ-Brett View Post
I don't know if it makes riders any less skilled but I do know its a real bad idea to play with gizmo's like gps while riding. There have been a number of threads in faceplant dealing with crashes while fooling with a gps.
I personally do not need or want gps, abs, traction control, windshields, water cooling, electric start, fuel injection, music, but heated grips might be nice on cold days.

I somehow managed to ride around the US without any of that stuff and had fun
No luggage, no rain gear, no problems.

That's great. However, for everyone else that stuff is all available.

Just because you think a gps might be scary doesn't mean it shouldn't be an option for me.
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Old 04-26-2012, 07:07 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rivercreep View Post
...motorcycling for what it is?

I don't want this thread to turn into an anti-technology thread as I feel there are some truely good things that have been developed to enhance our (insert, "lifestyle", "sport", "hobby" or whatever you call it, here).

As of late, I keep reading more and more posts where Guys are complaining about comfort in general, and making comments about certain sizes/styles of Bikes not being suitable for hwy. travel or extended trips.

It's maddening at the best!

I've watched drivers in cages become ever worse drivers; (despite the technological advances there) and we're at the point where those vehicles themselves allow drivers to only use 1/2 ther brain for driving while they multi-task and put other users of the roads at risk.

What's maddening to me, is that I see the same things happening within motorcycling and those same cage drivers are finding their way here and whining about the pure nature of our vehicles.
Seriously! ...W.T.F.?...Wind noise, seat comfort, vibrations, lack of protection from the elements, ...and you want factory locations to plug in your electronc B.S. distraction devices here as well?!


As a society in general, I feel we're using technology as a crutch to become lazier and lazier and watching motorcycles follow the same trends as cages I.M.H.O. this is NOT going to end well.

Motorcycles are vehicles that require skill to operate and attention to your riding environment.

The last thing I want to see is the pussification of our Bikes (which is already happening) that will allow anyone to bring their bad cage driving habits to our (insert your nomenclature, here)

You guys bitch about loud pipes and how they put your right to ride at risk (and I agree!) but what about increasingly bad riders who allow themselves to be distracted while riding who lack the skills necessary to actually ride and not turn themselves into 2 wheeled missles that can kill people.

Sorry this is soooo long winded but, I had to let this all out. (snapped on another post recently and had to apologize there)

I'm curious how the ADV collective feels about the loss of appreciation for what motorcycling is about.

Some of your rant strikes me as strange. Okay, take wind noise and comfort. Should we roll technology back and quit wearing ear plugs? You know all real bikers go to sleep at night with the ringing in the ears that I hear even as I sit here this morning, if my kids want to ride they should wear the hearing loss like a badge of honor. As for comfort on long trips, some people have always used their bikes for long trips, I went thru a year where mine was my only transportation. I wish Mayer had been making seats back then. I know I know, fucking upstart punks, bikes were purer when the seats were sprung and the frame wasnt.

As for electronic gizmos, you really need to sit on the side of a busy interstate after 12 hours on the road with the wind blowing like hell and cars zipping by trying to unfold a paper map since you cant remember if it was exit 67 you were supposed to take or highway 67.

As for the purity, people ride for different reasons, I explore, ramble and saunter. My son inlaw could give a shit less about the way I ride. If he rides he wants to be running twice the limit, rubbing the edges of his boots off and hard acceleration. I tried to get daughter and son inlaw to take a trip up near the grand canyon, she said no thanks, it's hard to see the sights holding on for dear life with both eyes shut.

I understand the just of your message, but it aint nothing new.
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Old 04-26-2012, 07:54 AM   #14
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Here, I'll summarize every discussion of appropriate use of technology that has ever taken place:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Everybody
There is an ideal level of technology use that balances practicality and comforty with "purity" and self-reliance. That is the level that I, personally, favor. Anybody who uses less tech is an out-of-touch Luddite throwback. Anybody who uses more is a spoiled pussy who's missing out on what things are really about.
Why do you get to determine "what motorcycling is about"? Is it your contention that a guy who is having fun and enjoying himself in comfort would be better off if he was uncomfortable?

More importantly, why do you care? An orthodontist riding a RTW-build GS with heated cupholders to Starbucks in no way impacts your life. Stop worrying about it.

Motorcycles are not inherently "supposed" to be slow, simple, basic, cheap, or small. That's simply what they were for most of their history due to the size of the market, the size and resources of most manufacturers, the available technology, and the legal requirements that exist outside the US. With those technical and financial considerations removed, the types and sizes of bikes available has expanded. This si not a bad thing.

Also, do you have any evidence for your claim that drivers/riders are getting worse and are more likely to crash than in the past?

gmiguy screwed with this post 04-26-2012 at 08:08 AM
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Old 04-26-2012, 08:03 AM   #15
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Ahhhh, the technology vs non-technology debate.

If you want to ride a 69 CB750, not listen to music, have no GPS and just enjoy the pure thing that is motorcycling....go for it.

Why does anyone care if I want to enjoy a little technology to make my ride better (IMHO)?

Do you honestly believe that technology has made riders more or less likely to learn to ride well? I don't. You could argue in the extremes (such as track days on an S1000RR), but, by and large, people are going to put as much effort into learning to ride as they like. Technology (or at least the tech we have today) is not going to change that.
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