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Old 04-26-2012, 09:20 AM   #16
tortoise2
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Originally Posted by Noreaster View Post
The bigger wheels might give her more of a "Motorcycle" feel if she wanted to move up later on.
Include the Tomos Twister 50 produced by Sym China in your research. NOT fuel injected, but at least it has a front disc brake, side kick stand, and a rear carrier rack.


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Old 04-26-2012, 12:07 PM   #17
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Oh, never mind. In this state there is a chance that she'll have to register her 50cc moped as a "limited use" motorcycle and have to have an "M" endorsement on it. You find out IF you need this WHEN yo go to register it. This, of curse, defeats the entire exercise and, thusly we are no longer in the market for a Fiddy. Ergo, no sales tax on it and no registration fee of any nature on it. No potential for her to take a MSF class, no potential fee for her endorsement, no potential sale of a Motorcycle or registration or insurance for that...

lets see.

Scooter: 2000
Sales tax 134
Moped Reg 40
Motorcycle 8000x 2-3 times
Sales taxes 1060 (assume 2 bikes only)
Insurance 800x20 years
Registrations 50x20 years
Inspections 30x 20 years

Total NOT put into the economy: 36,834 (very conservative estimate)

Good choice RMV guys, good choice.......
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:18 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Noreaster View Post
In this state there is a chance that she'll have to register her 50cc moped as a "limited use" motorcycle and have to have an "M" endorsement on it. You find out IF you need this WHEN yo go to register it.
For others curious . . MassDOT Moped Definition . . Limited Use Vehicle . . PDF List

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Old 04-26-2012, 01:34 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Noreaster View Post
That is a very nice looking little scooter. It's got fuel injection! A genuine Honda selling at $1999? Is there any room for the likes of Kimco, the Buddy or ANY other non-chinese 50cc scooter (with the posable exception of the Super 8 2t and, of course the Aprillia and Vespa 50's which are both much more expensive but both are also much more Italian)? AND you can get them at 1.9% financing! Seems like the end of the story for the other 50's, no?
$1999 for a 50cc scooter is supposed to be a good deal??? I'm sure that will be $2500-$3000 OTD. I paid $2200 OTD for my Kymco Super 8 150. I paid $3744 OTD for an Aprilia Sport City 250 with fuel injection.

I don't get the attraction of genuine Honda. Most of the Honda bike dealers around me are places I really don't want to do business. The Kymco dealer in Huntsville is a far better place to do business and I'd buy another scooter from them in a heartbeat. Kymco's warranttee is twice as long and they have a much better selection of scooters than Honda does here in the USA. The Aprilia dealer in N. GA is even better and far better than ANY Japanese dealer I have ever dealt with.

On top of everything else, Honda insists on putting linked brakes on their scooters which mean that I doubt I will ever buy a Honda scooter. Brakes are something I don't want to compromise on.

Personally, I would take a Kymco, Sym, Genuine, Piaggio, or Aprilia over any new Honda scooter.
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Old 04-26-2012, 02:54 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Noreaster View Post
Oh, never mind. In this state there is a chance that she'll have to register her 50cc moped as a "limited use" motorcycle and have to have an "M" endorsement on it. You find out IF you need this WHEN yo go to register it. This, of curse, defeats the entire exercise and, thusly we are no longer in the market for a Fiddy. Ergo, no sales tax on it and no registration fee of any nature on it. No potential for her to take a MSF class, no potential fee for her endorsement, no potential sale of a Motorcycle or registration or insurance for that...

lets see.

Scooter: 2000
Sales tax 134
Moped Reg 40
Motorcycle 8000x 2-3 times
Sales taxes 1060 (assume 2 bikes only)
Insurance 800x20 years
Registrations 50x20 years
Inspections 30x 20 years

Total NOT put into the economy: 36,834 (very conservative estimate)

Good choice RMV guys, good choice.......

I live in Mass as well, and travel all over the state for work. I have yet to see a 49cc scoot that wasn't registered as a moped.
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Old 04-26-2012, 04:13 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by savit260 View Post
I live in Mass as well, and travel all over the state for work. I have yet to see a 49cc scoot that wasn't registered as a moped.
Apparently they have a list of what scooters they think go over 30MPH and will reject your application if your moped is on their list. We aren't taking a $2000 gamble on that.
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:44 PM   #22
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Wow, $1,999? EFI? Damn, thats ain't bad!

You do relize, of course though, theres always plenty hidden dealer fees, taxes, etc? More like $2,500 or more out the door. Still a decent price.
If you look around, and if you can find one, many dealers are discounting the Elite 110 down to the $1999 range. And it is fuel injected and water cooled.
Of course the other fees etc. are still extra.
The only disadvantage for some is that the 110 requires tags, ins. etc.
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:52 PM   #23
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The Ruckus is $1999 too, but youd be hard pressed (around here anyway) to pull one out of the dealer for less than 3k...

To answer your question, keep in mind that many "Japanese" bikes are, and have been built in Taiwan. SYM built hundreds of thousands of "Hondas" and still do for sale in other (now for non US) markets. The Yamaha Vino is Taiwan built too...look at the vin plate.

But the Taiwanese brands like KYMCO, PGO (Buddy here in the US) sold under their own names/derivatives almost exclusively have double the standard warranty periods of their Japanese competitors...2 yr. vs. 1yr. Why is that?

BTW-KYMCO also manufactures the engines used in the BMW G650gs, and Sertao dual sport bikes with a standard 36 month warranty. You probably already knew that.

Parts for the Taiwanese brands are typically cheaper (anyone who has owned a Honda or other Japanese brands know how proud they can be with the parts prices) and have made major inroads in their distribution meaning nearly every dealer of a major Japanese brand, also carries a Taiwanese-manufactured brand....Genuine, KYMCO, or Genuine. As these companies are less demanding of their dealers than their Japanese competitors making it easier and more profitable business for their dealers, who are able to pass that value along to their customers.

Im glad you like the new Metro, but for that same 1999 msrp you get say a SYM-built Lance Cali-Classic 125, and not be stuck riding a 50cc scooter in the bike lane.

Truth be told, you could probably get within a few bucks of a Buddy 125 when comparing the real OTD price of that Metropolitan, and the Buddys are a much easier resale, with a phenominal reputation and the ability to 60+mph. But its also a matter of taste.

In the end, just like you asked if the Metropolitan will put other 50cc out of the running, "NO", as there's an ass for every seat and there are compelling reasons to look at other scooters in and around that price range for those looking for the most bang for their buck. Many will find just that, after having come to grips with the fact that 1999 doesn't always mean 1999.

That may not be you, if your heart is set on the Metro...go for it!

But thats not going to take other worthy competitors out of the equation.
This may not matter to a lot of people, but one thing that gave me pause about buying a used Buddy is the fact that the warranty is NOT transferable to a second owner. I verified this with my local dealer and as I understand it, the owners manual says it as well. You may not ever need a warranty, or so I'm told, but with my luck the thing would die on the way home.
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Old 04-28-2012, 07:10 PM   #24
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Oh, never mind. In this state there is a chance that she'll have to register her 50cc moped as a "limited use" motorcycle and have to have an "M" endorsement on it. You find out IF you need this WHEN yo go to register it. This, of curse, defeats the entire exercise and, thusly we are no longer in the market for a Fiddy. Ergo, no sales tax on it and no registration fee of any nature on it. No potential for her to take a MSF class, no potential fee for her endorsement, no potential sale of a Motorcycle or registration or insurance for that...

lets see.

Scooter: 2000
Sales tax 134
Moped Reg 40
Motorcycle 8000x 2-3 times
Sales taxes 1060 (assume 2 bikes only)
Insurance 800x20 years
Registrations 50x20 years
Inspections 30x 20 years

Total NOT put into the economy: 36,834 (very conservative estimate)

Good choice RMV guys, good choice.......
Funny thing you list M/C endorsement: I've had mine in VA since the late '70s. Never cost anything to keep it UNTIL my last license renewal. Now they charge $5.00 just to put it into the computer. No telling how much it would cost now to get it the first time. Money grubbing %^$^%^%^
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Old 04-28-2012, 07:15 PM   #25
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Apparently they have a list of what scooters they think go over 30MPH and will reject your application if your moped is on their list. We aren't taking a $2000 gamble on that.
You can't take the model specs to them and find out before you buy it? Sounds fishy to me.

BTW I was born in Fall River, left in the early '50s, and only been back twice since, both for family matters. No more family there now, so I doubt I'll ever go back.
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Old 04-28-2012, 07:39 PM   #26
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You can't take the model specs to them and find out before you buy it? Sounds fishy to me.

BTW I was born in Fall River, left in the early '50s, and only been back twice since, both for family matters. No more family there now, so I doubt I'll ever go back.
That's just a bold faced lie. If you were born in Fall River 60% of the people living there today ARE your family!
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Old 04-28-2012, 07:45 PM   #27
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You can't take the model specs to them and find out before you buy it? Sounds fishy to me.

BTW I was born in Fall River, left in the early '50s, and only been back twice since, both for family matters. No more family there now, so I doubt I'll ever go back.
Yes. I suppose, theoretically, I can take a couple hours to sit at the registry with a list of potential scooters and see if they can tell me which ones are Limited Use and which ones aren't (if they even know, or know how to find out) take that information, go buy a scoter (moped), bring the papers BACk to the registry and sit in line for another couple hours and hope that the person that I talk to THAT time has the same list and is reading it the same way (I know, I know! A registry Employee who can read! Who ever heard of such a thing?) and then get it on the road.

OR

I can save myself thousands of dollars and house of aggravation and just keep riding the wife around on the back of the V-Strom (she's not all rabid and shit about getting one or I'd suck it up and take my chances). Humm.... what to do, what to do?
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Old 04-28-2012, 09:19 PM   #28
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^ I feel the same way about 50cc scooters. i sort of resent them a little lol. i mean, a 50cc? really? but they sell 'em and people buy 'em

Kymco has a 100cc Sento and i think it may work its way to the U.S. are you listening, Honda? :)

Yep, me too. 49 cc is really only use full as a screw around bike. Its not good for real transportation. Yes, some has taken them round the country and world, BUT, many has done the same on bicycles. Motorized bicycle be cooler, MUCH better MPG, ACTUALLY legal to ride with NO license [not even Class C needed], can be pedaled when needed [run out of gas? Oh well. Brake down? Good, I was fixin to do some cardio anyways today!], and will do 40 MPH no problem with stock gear ratios. Not to meantion can be had for about $600, this includes a Schwinn Jaguar from walmart, a HONDA 49 cc 4 stroke engine, and a decent quality chinese kit [not the best ever, but works well if set up right, and if it fails you can still pedal].

Most states no registration is needed, no helmet is needed [only a bicycle helmet if youse under 18], and is legal to ride in the bicycle lane if you don't speed too much. Now I don't know how it is where you live, but I'd find out. These bikes average 150-200 MPG at WFO constantly.

VS $2,500 for the scooter with about the same capabilities, usually needs reg, and many states M license. Not to meantion milage is not good for 49 cc, with only about 100 MPG or so.


And NO, Honda is NOT listining. I can promise you that, sadly. If they was listining, we'd have a 150 cc/250 cc Elite 150 powered small Ruckus. BUT, they ain't listining or simply don't care what we want. I's sure scooterists is on the very bottom of there list.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:04 AM   #29
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.

BTW I was born in Fall River, left in the early '50s, and only been back twice since, both for family matters. No more family there now, so I doubt I'll ever go back.
You aren't missing anything.

I'm constantly frustrated by insane Mass. laws. (try and register an older used Motorcycle with no title) If I had to do it all over again, I'd have bought 4 miles up the street in N.H. where there's far less hassles, and I'd get myself an instant 5.3% pay raise. I'm sure I'd save enough where I could buy and actually register a couple of vintage street bikes!!
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Old 04-29-2012, 02:00 PM   #30
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That's just a bold faced lie. If you were born in Fall River 60% of the people living there today ARE your family!
There is no need to get nasty.

We have traced our family history back to 1652 in the New England/ Southern Canada area, so far.
That doesn't mean I want anything to do with the Kommonwealth of Mass.
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