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Old 04-12-2012, 08:43 AM   #16
jaydmc
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It is one thing to look at some ones design and take idea's from it. Then go and develop a similar part. It is a different thing to have one on hand and copy it.
Jay G
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:34 AM   #17
claude OP
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I would like for everyone to read my original post carefully. No, we did not take one of Jay's trail reducers to a machine shop and have it copied. In fact we did not even have one of Jay's trail reducers in house when we began to develope our own. I did have a concern with Jay's original design as it did not have a raised end on it for the pivot which did compromise the static ground clearance of the bike some when installed. This was simply due to the front forks being kicked forward by the reduced trail. I had suggested to Jay as an act of good will raise the rear of his design to maintain ground clearance. Soon after that discussion he did that which was an improvemment on his design. He had posted pictures here of that.

So, Take it all for what you wish. But, no, we did not copy Jay's offering. No, I am not from China. Again, Jay, sorry you feel the way you do. I was trying to offer an improvement suggestion to your original design and you took that well. Now we have developed our own trail reducer, which is NOT a direct copy... and have gotten blasted for it. Nuff said...Oh well ...
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:54 PM   #18
Ritalin Boy
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Gentlemen,

The Russian Embassay is holding on line two.

They seem to be upset at someone copying their designs.


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Old 04-17-2012, 05:54 PM   #19
jackhett
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Originally Posted by Ritalin Boy View Post
Gentlemen,

The Russian Embassay is holding on line two.

They seem to be upset at someone copying their designs.


And the Germans seem to have some problem with what those guys in Siberia are putting out.
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:06 PM   #20
OlyRider
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Let's see...Claude vs. Jay....Jay vs. Claude?

Jay mounts electric tilt adjusters upside down, so the water saturates them, and then charges his customers full-bore to fix his stupid(from an engineering point of view) mistake. Years later he changes...with no recall, explanation or satisfaction to the early customers suffering from his design flaw. Jay installs sidecar spindle shafts that (allegedly!) result in numerous catastophic failures, and then says he doesn't have the time or inclination to perform quality control(pre-installation) on parts he buys from vendors.

Get off your high horse, Jay! Claude decides he won't compete against Stroker, and sell wheels to compete with what Stroker is offering. Claude says purchase them from Stroker, and he'll mount it during his build. You get a wheel from Stroker, and find the easiest way to "allegedly!" copy it so a less-than-discriminating buyer can't tell it is inferior, and then offer it at a ridiculously high price!

You won't get Stroker to discuss it publicly, but I bet he is alternately seething and laughing at this drivel by Jay.

When I asked Jay to give me a fixed quote on a sidecar installation two years ago, incorporating the Ural tub I already owned, he glibly told me the cost of the project would include the $2,000 profit he would have made if he had provided one of his less-than-suitable fiberglass "copies".

I live 50 miles from Jay. I live 3,500 miles from Claude. I would pay the cost of travel, inconvenience and extra effort ten times over to have Claude build a hack for me before I would trust Jay to fix a flat.


I have met several customers of Jay's that have related stories of poor communication, broken welds, "drowned" actuators, sheered spindles, sloppy paint, long unexplained delays, and overall poor workmanship. Maybe Jay has a few satisfied customers out there (Clearwater...the world's "nicest" person?), but they are few and far between. Claude has legions of happy customers. Legions!
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:37 PM   #21
Hogslayer
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Pissed This is heating up Fast.....

Wow, I thought I stumbled into a Harley bashing thread for a minute........
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Old 04-26-2012, 02:19 PM   #22
Ritalin Boy
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Well I did my part not to pour gas on a fire but.....


Oh what the hell.



That was outside or Eureka, Ca or only about 2500 miles from home.

Fortunately a guardian angel arrived and invited us to have it towed to his house. (it was a Sunday).

This is what the SC tire looked like, thankfully it didn't come off.



This is how I fixed it after getting another 1" trailer bearing.

The shaft was scored so some cut copper pipe was pressed into service as an emergency bushing. This photo shows first attempt, hence the busted bearing bits, I had to wreck the first try to find success.



Finally my guardian angel, Mr. Jeff Smith of Eureka, Ca.

Guy rolls up, hops off and the first thing I said to him was "Bark Busters on a Norge?, Wow!"



Moral of the story is don't call someone out on the internet unless you are unassailable. It might come back to bite you.




Hard.
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Old 04-26-2012, 02:37 PM   #23
jaydmc
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I have never and will never steel a design. We have been making wheels from scratch since 1998. We had our wheel conversion being CNC machined for us long before I ever saw one of strokers wheels and long before I even heard of Stroker. Our wheels are completly different and I feel better as we use an adapter that allows for a standard off the shelf wheel to be used. So if a person damages the wheel all they need do is buy an inexpensive wheel rather then the entire unit. Also as we do it this way it is no problem to have a tire mounted on the wheel as automotive tire shops have no issue mounting a tire on an automotive wheel. They do on a custom motorcycle wheel. Motorcycle shops also do not like mounting car tires on automotive wheels so with Strokers wheels you may have problems finding a shop to install the tire.
Yes we did have some issues when we were retrofitting Ural sidecars, We stood behind these for 5 years fixing problems for no charge when we heard about them. The Ural frame required the tilt acutuator to be installed up side down in order to work. The manifacture of the acutuator insisted that there was / is no issue doing it this way. We now use a completly different brand of acutuator and as we designed our frame from scratch rather then retro fitting a existing frame we now have them turned the other way around. We found in general Ural sidecars were not up to the standards of quality that we wanted to offer and now do offer which is why we build our own sidecars from scratch now rather then modifiying Ural sidecars.
Our fiberglass sidecar bodies are much higher quality then the "Ural" steel bodies. To custom build a sidecar one off using bits and peices that the customer supplies does cost more then making production items in production jigs.
Olyrider, you wasted a lot of our time wanting us to build you a sidecar using used parts that you provided. You were trying to save some money by asking us to build you a custom sidecar for less money then a production sidecar and yet wanted us to hold to are high standards of quality. You tried pretty much every angle you could think of to find a way for us to build you a sidecar for less money.
Our prices are where they are as this is what is needed to cover our overhead. Sure we could lower prices if we wanted to cut corners. We could stop carrying manifactures liability insurance (adds about 10%) as well as garage keepers insuraces to cover bikes while we are working on them. We could also pay our employee's less and not give them medical, dental and vission insurance. This is not who we are or want to be. We have made thousands of sidecars and belive that we are making the highest quality sidecars made in the USA.
Jay G
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Old 04-26-2012, 03:08 PM   #24
OlyRider
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"Used Parts"??

That's a joke. Not, as in funny, just a joke.

I have a brand new Ural tub. It's never been anywhere near a motorcycle. And you know it. The "used part" must have been my 1150GS Adventure. I was using your frame, your fender, your sub-mounts, and trail reducer. I have the price quote where you thought it appropriate to charge me $2,000 for supplying my own new tub...since, in your words, you were entitled to the profit as if I had bought a tub from you. Nice markup, by the way.

I don't need to debate with you how well your "warranty" works. There are examples posted all over the Hacks forum where you have let numerous people down, and it has cost them time, money, and personal danger. Your inability to listen to anyone besides the little voice in your head is legendary, and has caused much aggravation to many. If I bothered to take the time, I could easily compile a long list of unhappy customers that have posted here. Maybe(?)...you could have some happy customers post in reply. But Claude doesn't have "any" unhappy customers. Why do you think that is, Jay?
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Old 04-26-2012, 03:36 PM   #25
Ritalin Boy
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I suggest for the sake of a lot of people's sanity that we let this thread die.

I'm not going to say I was screwed by Dauntless but I was disappointed by the failure. Having said this they were helpful over the phone and did send me proper replacement parts including a new swingarm.

Really I see no good coming from continuing this.

Jay here's a tip. Delete all your posts in this thread. As well intentioned as it may have been when you started or perhaps you were just having a bad day, this can not end well for you on your current course. At the least change your tune a bit. The harder you dig your heels, the deeper the ruts, especially when you start to argue with customers who spent substantial bucks with you. Dump yours and this one goes right after.

Your first foray into this topic sounded like a whine as has every follow up. I offer this as a guy who is going to enjoy the rig I built from your kit this weekend, have met you and think you're ok, but right now you're getting a little close to the sun.
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Old 04-26-2012, 04:04 PM   #26
OlyRider
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydmc View Post
Claude, I suspect that if we were to take messurments of all of the critical areas that your parts are an exact copy of ours as you simply copied our design using one of the units you purchased from us. I suspect that if you showed people photo's of both our parts and yours most people could not tell them apart.
I expected better of you then this. You have in essence stolen our design. Your ethics are at best questionalbe. You are no better then the companies that have taken my designs and are having them built in China
Jay G
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Old 04-26-2012, 05:18 PM   #27
Ritalin Boy
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.
vindictive are we?
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Old 04-26-2012, 05:52 PM   #28
OlyRider
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vindictive are we?
In this case...yes.

Jay insulted an honest and ethical businessman (and "gentleman") in the worst possible way in a public forum. Claude is too good a person to stoop to Jay's level by responding as he no doubt could.

Then Jay decided to misrepresent "our" dealings in a less harsh fashion. I truly believe there is a night & day difference in the way Jay and Claude operate their respective businesses. I have had enough discussions with them both, and followed their contributions to the Hacks Forum to have an informed opinion. One is respectful towards the customers and the industry, and the other is...Jay's.

I left his diatribe against Claude up so that he can have it removed by publicly apologizing. Its not as simple as just "deleting it" after it's been posted and read by so many.
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:25 PM   #29
Ritalin Boy
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Originally Posted by OlyRider View Post
In this case...yes.

Jay insulted an honest and ethical businessman (and "gentleman") in the worst possible way in a public forum. Claude is too good a person to stoop to Jay's level by responding as he no doubt could.

Then Jay decided to misrepresent "our" dealings in a less harsh fashion. I truly believe there is a night & day difference in the way Jay and Claude operate their respective businesses. I have had enough discussions with them both, and followed their contributions to the Hacks Forum to have an informed opinion. One is respectful towards the customers and the industry, and the other is...Jay's.

I left his diatribe against Claude up so that he can have it removed by publicly apologizing. Its not as simple as just "deleting it" after it's been posted and read by so many.
Good point.
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Old 04-27-2012, 05:51 AM   #30
claude OP
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If you all will go back to my original post that started this thread and take a look. I said if we received orders for an 1150 GS trail reducer we would begin to make them. We now do have a few orders in for OUR trail reducer for the1150 GS. We expect these to go into production soon.
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Founder: Internet Sidecar Owners Klub at SCT
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/

President: C Stanley Motorsports Inc.
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/...rsandTrailers/

http://freedomsidecars.com/

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