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Old 04-28-2012, 12:29 PM   #16
dlrides
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I too stopped lubing modern X-ring chains. I clean occasionally with a dry teflon spray from Lowes. IMHO sticky lube attracts foreign matter, causing premature wear. There is no way a spray lube can pass by the x-rings to the roller pins.
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Old 04-28-2012, 12:55 PM   #17
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back to chain lube issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by dlrides View Post
I too stopped lubing modern X-ring chains. I clean occasionally with a dry teflon spray from Lowes. IMHO sticky lube attracts foreign matter, causing premature wear. There is no way a spray lube can pass by the x-rings to the roller pins.
True but there's a surface between the outer part of the roller and the body pin that's not protected by the x-ring or (o-ring), but I do agree that this will not exacerbate the sprocket wear only reduce efficiency. Also I'm not convinced that the x-rings are so good that you'd take the risk of water getting in, whereas a good lube that's not too sticky might help stop rusting. It is an opinion issue and subjective to many factors including the lube quality.
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Old 04-28-2012, 01:42 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ridewestKTM View Post
I agree with what's been said, but I wanted to add some thoughts. The question "how does a warn sprocket wear the chain?" is worthy of thought. When sprocket wears, it wears inward making the contact points closer - shorter pitch- so as a roller is picked up it bears the load all the way around. But some where the next roller takes the load and because the effective pitch is smaller on the warn sprocket you get the chain links pushing against each other as they wedge into the smaller pitch. The point is the rollers maintain high loading all the way around as they follow the curve by rotating. High loan plus lots of rotation is accelerated wear. As the chain wears (clearance in the pins increases) the pitch gets longer - same problem different spot. Rust increases clearance and is the worst cause (IMO). New stuff there is a better sharing of the load and no self induced load.
IMO - spend lots on the chain and chain lube (avoid rust at all cost) and it might pay for itself in at least you don't have to change as often, and always change sprockets at the same time.
Well put!
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Old 04-28-2012, 01:51 PM   #19
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I use 80W-90 gear oil and a paint brush to lube the chain occasionally after a ride. No rust and it keeps me happy.
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Old 04-28-2012, 02:11 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by mousitsas View Post
The 'secret' for long sprocket/chain life (apart from typical chain maintenance) is to change your front sprocket (the cheap one) frequently. Typically 2-3 times more frequently than the rear, as it wears typically 2-3 times faster. If I do that, then my setup lasts for 50k kms with typicaly one chain, 1 rear sprocket and 3 front ones. I use 17/45 combo to make use of max teeth count.

+1 This is exactly what I do. Change the front with each oil change, swap out the rear and chain every fourth time, about every 15,000 miles. Its a bit of over kill, but I dont like broken chains, kind of hard on the engine case.

I dont use chain lube with the DID ZVMX X-ring chain either. I wipe the dirt off the chain with a diesel soaked cloth every couple of days, thats about it. IMO, with modern x-ring chains, lube does more harm than good.
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:52 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by dlrides View Post
I too stopped lubing modern X-ring chains. I clean occasionally with a dry teflon spray from Lowes. IMHO sticky lube attracts foreign matter, causing premature wear. There is no way a spray lube can pass by the x-rings to the roller pins.
+1. Lube that doesn't dry just picks up the dust and dirt and becomes grinding paste. Actually causes the rollers to wear faster.
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Old 04-28-2012, 04:53 PM   #22
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Some interesting thoughts on non-lubing the chain! I think I have started buying into the theory!
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:41 PM   #23
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Scottoiler

Buy a scottoiler best thing I ever did chain is always perfectly oiled and people are going 30k miles before replacing the drive components
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Old 04-28-2012, 10:30 PM   #24
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I have tried both ways. With little to no lubing, my last DID X ring lasted only a little over 10k miles. That was with new sprockets at the same time. With lubing constantly I got much closer to 20k miles with the stock chain. So in my experience no lube cut my chain life nearly in half.
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Old 04-29-2012, 02:20 AM   #25
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Well, with no lube I get at least 15K miles, but I change out the front sprocket every oil change and I think that is the key. With the amount of off road riding I do, I would change the chain out anyway at that point. So, ymmv I guess.
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Old 04-29-2012, 02:27 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by crashmaster View Post
Well, with no lube I get at least 15K miles, but I change out the front sprocket every oil change and I think that is the key. With the amount of off road riding I do, I would change the chain out anyway at that point. So, ymmv I guess.
Probably we could 'save' a bit on front sprockets if we reverse them once before throwing them away...
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Old 04-29-2012, 06:34 AM   #27
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I consider my chain shagged when on proper tension, more than half tooth is exposed as I pull the chain backwards from the rear sprocket.
Thanks. I find it easy to get someone to tell you how long their chain (or tires etc) last, but hard to find out what they consider "worn". A good example is the chain I just replaced at 22k miles. The front sprocket was toast, thin teeth starting to hook. The rear sprocket looked pretty good and had little wear. The chain would pull away from the rear sprocket a half tooth with a good strong pull. With your method (mine, partly, as well) my chain would be considered almost gone, but not quite. Maybe worth replacing the front sprocket and continuing, maybe not.

I measured the links very accurately. They were getting towards at the spec limit that Triumph puts in thier service manual. Actually had a long way to go to get to where the ownners manual stated they should be. For me, and my uses I think I did the right thing changing the set, but it would have been smarter for me to have changed the front sprocket about 6k miles ago, then run the chain for a bit longer. Well, that's my opinion of the moment anyway.

I have seen people change their chain when it first starts getting noisy, and I have seen people run their chains until the chain breaks, skips over the teeth or some of the links won't bend. So, when someone says their chain lasted 2 million miles, you don't know what they did and the data is mostly useless. Funny though, how the old tried and true method of pulling the chain at the rear sprocket works about as good as anything........... BUT, I would add that it is also important to check the chain at different points, and inspect each link for damage as the majority of the chain can be in great shape, and one link be ready to go due to a lost o-ring or something. (I assume you do that) I saw one chain like that.
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Old 04-29-2012, 06:54 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Wheres_Bob View Post
Thanks. I find it easy to get someone to tell you how long their chain (or tires etc) last, but hard to find out what they consider "worn". A good example is the chain I just replaced at 22k miles. The front sprocket was toast, thin teeth starting to hook. The rear sprocket looked pretty good and had little wear. The chain would pull away from the rear sprocket a half tooth with a good strong pull. With your method (mine, partly, as well) my chain would be considered almost gone, but not quite. Maybe worth replacing the front sprocket and continuing, maybe not.

I measured the links very accurately. They were getting towards at the spec limit that Triumph puts in thier service manual. Actually had a long way to go to get to where the ownners manual stated they should be. For me, and my uses I think I did the right thing changing the set, but it would have been smarter for me to have changed the front sprocket about 6k miles ago, then run the chain for a bit longer. Well, that's my opinion of the moment anyway.

I have seen people change their chain when it first starts getting noisy, and I have seen people run their chains until the chain breaks, skips over the teeth or some of the links won't bend. So, when someone says their chain lasted 2 million miles, you don't know what they did and the data is mostly useless. Funny though, how the old tried and true method of pulling the chain at the rear sprocket works about as good as anything........... BUT, I would add that it is also important to check the chain at different points, and inspect each link for damage as the majority of the chain can be in great shape, and one link be ready to go due to a lost o-ring or something. (I assume you do that) I saw one chain like that.
Yes, funny how sometimes 'backyard mechanics' recipes work.
To be honest, I never go to the lengths of inspecting every link individually, but then again, I never totally neglect my chains and always buy the safe best. For me 'safe best' is golden series DID X-ring at the manufacturer's specified width. No thin chain conversions for me.
The 'pull the chain' check I do throughout the length of the chain, when I go past half my expected mileage and every time I lube the chain I put the bike on the center stand and turn the wheel to see if there is an obvious kink somewhere.
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Old 04-29-2012, 07:14 AM   #29
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Amazing how results differ. i've been using good d.i.d. Erv3 chains and only get about 10k kms. My rear 45 is petty much toast by then
Too but the front looks mint. this year i've switched to 17/47 as it will provide less tooth repeats on the rear.
Like geek says riding style has the most to do with it.

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Old 04-29-2012, 07:20 AM   #30
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Amazing how results differ. i've been using good d.i.d. Erv3 chains and only get about 10k kms. My rear 45 is petty much toast by then
Too but the front looks mint. this year i've switched to 17/47 as it will provide less tooth repeats on the rear.
Like geek says riding style has the most to do with it.

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I suspect that your chain and rear sprocket are exposed to a lot of grinding material, sand maybe? That might explain why the front sees less wear.
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