When did we stop appreciating...

[markk53]

Originally Posted by rivercreep

Let me put it this way. (in regards to the highlighted part)
Putting it that way, there is none....(joy)
Putting it the way I'll state it below DOES give you joy.

There's quite a few guys around here (judging from posts I've read) who only pay to have their bikes worked on and have no general concept of mechanics/trouble shooting.
Not that the above matters most times but...
...many of the types above can't even tell when something is starting to go wrong (until it completely fails) as they have no idea how to even look for potential problems.
I imagine breaking down in the middle of nowhere and being stranded with no cell signal (there's plenty of places like that in my area, up north), tools, or any concept of how to get yourself going again, would be even less fun than MAINTAINING YOUR VEHICLE VS. REPAIRING IT. or worse; having a failure while traveling at 65 mph that sends you sliding along the road surface and into a gaurdrail. (that also doesn't sound very joyful)
For petes sake...look how many guys shy away from bikes with tube type tires these days because they don't even know how to repair a flat along side the road. (no fun but, with no signal or back-ups around, wouldn't it be nice to be able to, esp. on a sunday?)

F.W.I.W. I'd rather be self sufficiant than have more money than brains and be armed with only a cell phone and $. (and access to AAA)

I don't find ANY joy in making repairs to my bikes. I DO find great joy in maintaining my bike and being self sufficiant so as to NOT have to rely on other people. (and it keeps "repairs" at bay)
I look upon those who CAN turn a wrench with respect (and Guys who can weld and machine parts ARE GODS to me) and I see that as a form of them having earned their place as a rider vs. merely being a poser.

I mean nothing deragtory in my last paragraph, it's merely my point of view. Hell, I don't even hold myself in the same league as the guys who can weld and machine parts. (makes me a "poser" in some regards)

Maybe I'm just fortunate, but in over 40 years I've never actually repaired a flat along the roadside - now it will probably happen this summer - and only maybe five times have had any sort of breakdown. Two were broken chains, one on the streetbike and one on the off roader, a damaged clutch on my off roader, and another was a frayed throttle cable about 5 blocks from home again on an off roader. Fact is running out of gas or an accident has been more the issue. That hasn't been a problem in decades either, I know my general mpg and I don't crash (if you don't count tip overs and wash outs off road).

I certainly wouldn't fault a guy for not knowing about their bike. I'd think it was a shame if they were totally oblivious, but hey - I don't have much comprehension about the actual operating system of my computer. I don't know how to use a sewing machine to make a shirt or pants. I don't know pyrotechnics - boy would that be fun though. I don't know how to break down a rifle. Heck, how many of you can make a roast, bake up a turkey, make cookies from scratch, or many other cooking tasks without having to read some recipe?

So a rider relies on his mechanic. No big deal. I understand the thing with tube versus tubeless, I like tubeless for two reasons - no tube and no spokes to clean. But face it, a tubeless is just nicer in many ways. They still go flat and any road hazard that would cause a blow out on a tube tire will do the same to a tubeless. I've had flats on both and both will usually go down slow enough to get somewhere to fill up again or to get home. I don't care which one I have. Heck the SR has the old Yamaha tube type cast wheels on it!

I, for one, will look for the best set up that pleases me, but do like simplicity. Thus my affinity for my SR and the KLX. I like the look of old school standard based superbikes, thus the Zephyr. I don't much care for most other stuff when it comes to owning one. There are some, but there is a pecking order and price dictates part of that to a large extent too.

[rivercreep]

Originally Posted by Wraith Rider

@rivercreep
I bought me a modern, new Honda, so I don't have to bother about "failures". In my area there are no spots without cell signal or without someone coming along every few minutes, so no bothering about beeing stranded in the middle of nowhere as well.
Again, it sounds to me like something that results out of necessity - completely understandable and maybe essential in some ares, but still not desirable or joyful for me.

If someone has fun in tuning his bike by his own hands, ok, not my thing but I can understand it. But not as a must have part of driving in itself.

To each his/her own I guess but, please don't rely on the reputation for "reliability" in regards to thinking you might never have a failure of some sort. (even if you have a Dealer go over it once a yr or so).
Look it over before every ride anyway and stay alert for stuff that might go wrong.

Regardless of how mwnay of us disagree on various subjects, I feel it's safe to say we'd all like to see our fellow riders live a long healthy life and I'd hate to see anyone have a failure that might result in their untimely demise.

...The best to all of you!
My "rant" is over as I feel I've made all the valid points I can make.

[markk53]

Originally Posted by Thanantos

And, honestly, I should have elaborated by saying I love wrenching on my bike to make it better.

If I had to wrench on my bike just to get it to run at all (pre-evo Harley's *cough, cough*) I would not enjoy it.

BINGO!

[markk53]

Originally Posted by rivercreep

Nope! I have no reason to make shit up.

My first real bike was a 91 DR650

And you're telling me about working on bikes! I started with and still own the Bultaco M27 Sherpa T trials bike that ate a clutch and some other stuff when I was really ignorant about bikes, raced/rebuilt from crank up/ported an M66 Sherpa S, raced/rode/threw a chain that ate the crank bearing when everything loaded/rebuilt from the crank up a Suzuki TM125, rode a Kaw triple and did a set of topends, had a MotoGuzzi that had an oil leak ruin the clutch (bike apart engine out of frame to do that, done a few top ends on Yamaha SR500s, played with numerous other bikes along the way - BUT! When the KLX had the top end go bad I paid the guys in the shop do the work. I sold bikes and paid for it, but I knew they do this every day and what they could do in a week or so would take me at least a month and be a pain in the butt to do in my spare time. I could do the work and have done it, but I paid them for the convenience and got my bike back faster. Plus we learned the Vulcan 1500 piston fit.

[perterra]

Originally Posted by markk53

And you're telling me about working on bikes! I started with and still own the Bultaco M27 Sherpa T trials bike that ate a clutch and some other stuff when I was really ignorant about bikes, raced/rebuilt from crank up/ported an M66 Sherpa S, raced/rode/threw a chain that ate the crank bearing when everything loaded/rebuilt from the crank up a Suzuki TM125, rode a Kaw triple and did a set of topends, had a MotoGuzzi that had an oil leak ruin the clutch (bike apart engine out of frame to do that, done a few top ends on Yamaha SR500s, played with numerous other bikes along the way - BUT! When the KLX had the top end go bad I paid the guys in the shop do the work. I sold bikes and paid for it, but I knew they do this every day and what they could do in a week or so would take me at least a month and be a pain in the butt to do in my spare time. I could do the work and have done it, but I paid them for the convenience and got my bike back faster. Plus we learned the Vulcan 1500 piston fit.

It's easier to remember the good old days when they start at 91.

My first real bike was a 66 Bridgestone 90 in 69

[JimVonBaden]

Originally Posted by rivercreep

I'm wondering if we started a poll around here, how many guys even work on their own bikes anymore.

I sell a butt load of DVDs on motorcycle maintenance to BMW riders. I suspect most of them actually use them!

A few people showed up at my tech day on Saturday to work on their own bikes!



















Jim

[Nevada]

Originally Posted by NJ-Brett

I crossed the Mojave in late July, during the daytime, it was 126F in the shade.
I wore jeans and a T shirt. Like riding in a blast furnace.

The old Triumph did great, lots of overheated cars though...
I did 60 mph, cars were blowing by me with the AC on, then were on the side of the road 20 miles up with smoke pouring out from under the hood...

Ain't the Baker Grade grand? Funny thing though, cars don't break down on the grade nearly as often as they used to either, 'cause they're built a lot better than before.

And yes, it is like riding in a blast furnace. Which is why mesh gear is a damn sight smarter than jeans and a T-shirt. Clearly, jeans & T is doable, but it's better to tell the story than repeat it, eh? As for me, I'll take my blast furnace over a steam bath any day.

[NJ-Brett]

I camped at Needles marina, and had to jump in the river every 1/2 hour to prevent feeling very sick.
The faster you rode, the hotter you felt.
Back in the early 80's, they may have had mesh gear, but I don't remember ever seeing any.
I am thinking I should look for some sort of summer jacket.

And yes, its the humidity that sucks big time.
My wife decided to do Williamsburg VA one year in the middle of summer, and a worst time was never had.

Originally Posted by Nevada

Ain't the Baker Grade grand? Funny thing though, cars don't break down on the grade nearly as often as they used to either, 'cause they're built a lot better than before.

And yes, it is like riding in a blast furnace. Which is why mesh gear is a damn sight smarter than jeans and a T-shirt. Clearly, jeans & T is doable, but it's better to tell the story than repeat it, eh? As for me, I'll take my blast furnace over a steam bath any day.

[Snarky]

I'm relatively new to motorcycling. I started out on an XT225, it was slow. I was actually starting to use it to commute on a highway.... at 55 mph... Mine might have been slower than the norm, but that's about as fast as I could get it on gps.

My second bike was a Versys. It had lots of new luxuries like an extra cylinder and 3 times the displacement, so it had the ability to travel at speeds above 70 mph. It was also fuel injected, so no more choke or fuel valve. It had a fuel gauge no more switching to reserve, you just ended up there. Plus it had effective brakes, dual disc up front, and a disc instead of drum in the back. No heated grips, no abs, no nothing, pure and simple.

My 3rd bike is a GSA. It's got ABS and heated grips, and ESA which eliminates the spanner wrench in my tool kit. I like the ABS, I can stop sooner on this bike than I ever could on the Versys, plus the brakes are linked, so I don't have to proportion them myself. On the Versys, despite good gloves, and precautions I actually froze my left ring finger so good that it still tingles to this day, I welcome heated grips. I got the GS mainly because although the Versys was fine in 70-75 mph zones, it was a bit annoying to drive to and from El Paso in the 80mph+ areas. I want my eternal drive over as quickly as possible.

I've always had GPS, I like GPS for this reason: I can go explore to my heart's content, then when I'm sick of it, I can press a button and go home ASAP.

I've always listened to music. To get anywhere good from my house requires long journeys down straight roads. You can only jam to wind noise for so long.

Pussification? Maybe... Am I a pussy? I don't know, maybe. I've ridden in the cold, in torrential downpour, in the heat, in jeans and a t-shirt or in full gear. I've only only got about 30,000 motorcycle miles to my name in about 3 years. But I do my best, I just got the GS and am 2000 miles into it in less than a month. I love riding. But there is riding, and there is going places. When I am going places and riding is secondary because the roads suck, I like to not be miserably bored with the road ive seen 40 thousand times because there's only one, long straight, road north. But maybe that's me.

[rivercreep]

Originally Posted by perterra

It's easier to remember the good old days when they start at 91.

My first real bike was a 66 Bridgestone 90 in 69

F.W.I.W. My first bike was a 78 Honda Hawk. The 91 DR was the first "real bike" because it didn't break down every 1,000 miles like my used bikes did.(91 was purchased new and I maintained it)

Don't read into things and make assumptions.

[perterra]

Originally Posted by Snarky

I'm relatively new to motorcycling. I started out on an XT225, it was slow. I was actually starting to use it to commute on a highway.... at 55 mph... Mine might have been slower than the norm, but that's about as fast as I could get it on gps.

My second bike was a Versys. It had lots of new luxuries like an extra cylinder and 3 times the displacement, so it had the ability to travel at speeds above 70 mph. It was also fuel injected, so no more choke or fuel valve. It had a fuel gauge no more switching to reserve, you just ended up there. Plus it had effective brakes, dual disc up front, and a disc instead of drum in the back. No heated grips, no abs, no nothing, pure and simple.

My 3rd bike is a GSA. It's got ABS and heated grips, and ESA which eliminates the spanner wrench in my tool kit. I like the ABS, I can stop sooner on this bike than I ever could on the Versys, plus the brakes are linked, so I don't have to proportion them myself. On the Versys, despite good gloves, and precautions I actually froze my left ring finger so good that it still tingles to this day, I welcome heated grips. I got the GS mainly because although the Versys was fine in 70-75 mph zones, it was a bit annoying to drive to and from El Paso in the 80mph+ areas. I want my eternal drive over as quickly as possible.

I've always had GPS, I like GPS for this reason: I can go explore to my heart's content, then when I'm sick of it, I can press a button and go home ASAP.

I've always listened to music. To get anywhere good from my house requires long journeys down straight roads. You can only jam to wind noise for so long.

Pussification? Maybe... Am I a pussy? I don't know, maybe. I've ridden in the cold, in torrential downpour, in the heat, in jeans and a t-shirt or in full gear. I've only only got about 30,000 motorcycle miles to my name in about 3 years. But I do my best, I just got the GS and am 2000 miles into it in less than a month. I love riding. But there is riding, and there is going places. When I am going places and riding is secondary because the roads suck, I like to not be miserably bored with the road ive seen 40 thousand times because there's only one, long straight, road north. But maybe that's me.

This is the essence of it to me. I'm willing to and do have fun on just about any bike when I'm just riding. But when I have to get 600 miles by the end of the day I really do like the stuff that makes me a puss.

[perterra]

Originally Posted by rivercreep

F.W.I.W. My first bike was a 78 Honda Hawk. The 91 DR was the first "real bike" because it didn't break down every 1,000 miles like my used bikes did.(91 was purchased new and I maintained it)

Don't read into things and make assumptions.

Your original post was loaded with assumptions, assuming someone didnt appreciate riding because they had seat, windshield, GPS, muzak or what ever. Assuming they were dangerous riders because of GPS or what ever. Later assuming they werent "real" riders because they didnt wrench their own.

From the original post, if I were to assume anything from your statement, I would assume you had never had to make an 1800 mile trip and had very limited time to do it. Bt if you can pull 16 hours straight thru on a stock DR seat you should probably get off into the Iron Butt stuff, A good seat and you could have ridden days straight.

[rivercreep]

Originally Posted by perterra

Your original post was loaded with assumptions, assuming someone didnt appreciate riding because they had seat, windshield, GPS, muzak or what ever. Assuming they were dangerous riders because of GPS or what ever. Later assuming they werent "real" riders because they didnt wrench their own.

From the original post, if I were to assume anything from your statement, I would assume you had never had to make an 1800 mile trip and had very limited time to do it. Bt if you can pull 16 hours straight thru on a stock DR seat you should probably get off into the Iron Butt stuff, A good seat and you could have ridden days straight.

The thing is, my first post were assumptions based on my perspective which people are clearly invited to comment on and share theirs, NOT assumptions about an individual which could be seen as a personal attack. (sort of an "if the shoe fits" type of post)
Can you see the difference?

Ps. if I actually attacked a person through wrong wording, please point it out and I'll delete the post or re-word to make a correction. "Attacking" anyone on a personal level is/was not my intention.

[perterra]

Originally Posted by rivercreep

The thing is, my first post were assumptions based on my perspective which people are clearly invited to comment on and share theirs, NOT assumptions about an individual which could be seen as a personal attack. (sort of an "if the shoe fits" type of post)
Can you see the difference?

Ps. if I actually attacked a person through wrong wording, please point it out and I'll delete the post or re-word to make a correction. "Attacking" anyone on a personal level is/was not my intention.

Okay, got it, general assumptions about a group of people are okie dokie, but assumptions about a person within that group are ill mannered. KLR riders are cheep skates, Beemer guys are snobs, Goldwing riders are all old slow people, crusiers all dress like pirates and ride in formation 10 mph below, sportbike riders are all squids, adventure bikers all hang at the starbux. So while beemer riders are snobs, I shouldnt take it that a guy riding a beemer is a snob.

And for sure I wasnt intending my reply to be a personal attack, I'm assuming you would understand the irony of talking about the good old days of biking then stating your first real bike was a 91.

[rivercreep]

Originally Posted by perterra

Okay, got it, general assumptions about a group of people are okie dokie, but assumptions about a person within that group are ill mannered. KLR riders are cheep skates, Beemer guys are snobs, Goldwing riders are all old slow people, crusiers all dress like pirates and ride in formation 10 mph below, sportbike riders are all squids, adventure bikers all hang at the starbux. So while beemer riders are snobs, I shouldnt take it that a guy riding a beemer is a snob.

And for sure I wasnt intending my reply to be a personal attack, I'm assuming you would understand the irony of talking about the good old days of biking then stating your first real bike was a 91.

F.W.I.W. I guess I see that there is a difference between attacking groups of people vs a concept.
People can be hurt, a concept can not.
I try to refrain from hurting people. Concepts = I feel free to label since concepts have no feeling.
...again, to me, there is a clear difference.
If one wants to identify WITH the concept, (and put on the shoe) that's up to them.

Ps. The "irony" is now understood! (I missed it the first time, posting B.C.)