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Old 04-10-2012, 12:03 PM   #16
btcn
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China scoots is like a mixed bag. It truly is.

Some of y'all will have grate experances. Its like playing russian roulette with scooters, or like a bag full of candy, some be poisen some is good.

You could order one and get a reasonable quality scooter that might go for 10s of thousands of miles have little or no problems. Or, get a cheap peace of shit that will sieze up, require more TLC than a panhead set in a backyard for 30 years with a siezed motor.

Its cause they ain't got no quality control. Some will pay a little attention and build a decent scooter for the money, others could care less with the policy ["no worry, dumb American buy anyway!"].

But, the Japanese, like Honda. They's gonna build a high quality scoot. And they don't let a crappy one roll off the assembly. Once in a while it happens. Thats whats called a Lemon, just like in cars.

I've had many Honda motorcycles. Other than my 1st bike was chinese, I's had Hondas every bike ever since. Many was project bikes. The old ones will require a little TLC at 1st, but once thats done they'll go forever with care. Lets see how a China Scoot is in 30+ years with dozens of miles that set in a backyard without a tarp!

But, you see, trouble is, many many china scoots will be lemons cause quality control issues. Y'all ever seen how some of them factories weld? Its scary.


What continues to amaze me most though, is how they often really don't try. For a while at 1st the Japanese bikes and products was crap. But, they just didn't know no better. They lerned, and lerned about quality control. And today is some of the bestest builders. Like they basically build Harleys, that will go longer with less maintainence. Harleys is good but its time to go to water cooled. To be honest, the Honda Shadows and such are almost better bikes than H-Ds. They'll go way longer before a rebuild, sound just as good, etc. The only thing they lack is the character. Thats what I love about H-D. They have a certain feel and character to em they won't never get. Although the Road Star 1600 comes purdy close!

But thats the main issues I think with chinese. They has gotten better. But not there yet. Some of the higher end manufactorers is good. But then again they's just about as expansive.
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Old 04-10-2012, 12:23 PM   #17
CaseyJones
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You need to put a little "quality control" into your posting...starting with "lerning" how to spell. Your education is "expansive" but it didn't take, it appears.

Anyway...to the subject: Chinese stuff is of secondary quality. Used to be it was of completely-unacceptable quality.

They are learning. Remember, there's no such thing as a "market" in their home of operations - the government decides what's to be produced and who can make it and who can buy it. Anyone who complains about it is taken out of sight and shot in the head.

So...having to compete is a whole new experience. To understand what the Chinese are going through, I suggest you read http://www.amazon.com/The-Yugo-Rise-.../dp/0809098911 - Jason Vuic's book on the Yugo experience - to grasp the utter confusion the free market can be to a socialist manufacturing commissar.

The Chinese bought the Japanese companies' obsoleted designs and tooling. They thought that was the whole of the puzzle. Just as the Yugo people thought buying the Fiat designs, and then the bankrupt Yugo America distribution company, was the whole of what THEY needed to succeed.

Both were wrong. The Japanese were fortunate in that they got an early start on their success with an American statistician, W. Edwards Demming. It was HIS theory, "Continuous Quality Improvement" tied to measurable statistical parameters, that turned Japan from a backwards manufacturer of trinkets to the leader in automotive design and manufacture.

China doesn't have anyone like Demming to guide them along. Nor are the Japanese gonna help. They're just muddling through, the Chinese novices.

They are making progress. How much progress, will be interesting to see as time goes by.
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Old 04-29-2012, 02:03 PM   #18
nakedwaterskier
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Actually many Taiwanese own or run factories in Mainland China. Foxconn/Apple ring a bell? And obviously good quality control.
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Old 04-29-2012, 02:38 PM   #19
bbishoppcm
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Just bought that book, I've heard of it, and your post made me finally break down and spend the $6 on it.
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Old 04-29-2012, 02:43 PM   #20
bbishoppcm
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And quit raggin' on Bitchin', I understood exactly what he was saying. My father has terrible grammar, can't spell worth a damn, and cusses frequently; however, he's one of the smartest men I know. Give him a problem, and he'll find a solution; he can fix or build practically anything. My father taught me everything I know regarding electrical and mechanical repairs, just don't ask him to write an essay about it. Thankfully, I learned to read and write from my mother (I was one of the lucky few of my generation to have both parents growing up).
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Old 04-29-2012, 02:45 PM   #21
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Back to the OP's orignal question; Although I love my scoots, I would suggest a used 250 dual sport bike for what you want to do. With the type of dirt bike you ride, and your single track experience, you would far surpass any scooter that I know or have heard of for off road riding. CVT transmissions just don't work well for off road riding since there is no engine braking. The suspension would be closer to NO SUSPENSION than what you have on your KTM. Plus when you crash a typical scooter (aside from the Madass or Rukus) its going to break a lot of expensive plastic. The DS bike will be a lot of fun for you around town, and much better for fire roads and two-track than any scooter IMO. Plus your likely to find a good used DS bike for a LOT less than what the more off-road oriented scoots cost, certainly well under $3K.
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