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Old 04-29-2012, 09:25 PM   #63586
ER70S-2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fbga View Post
The baby is a beautiful little girl and if she behaves well she might get a beemer as a little sister...
I'm not sure how the stock petcock looks like. I have an IMS tank with the petcock you see on the picture below. Positions are OFF, ON and RESERVE. After cleaning the carb I only added enough fuel for reserve. I'll add more fuel to try and prime it on the "on" position...
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerosene View Post
Not sure how well you guys can help in this vague thing.
Bike: DR650, The bike is new to me (few weeks or a month now), well kept and runs like champ. Has big tank and after market petcock (non-vacuum line and has off position). Stock carb. (same petcock as in the picture just posted - yellow tank one).

Few weeks ago bike the bike ran out of fuel while the petcock was set to "ON", I pulled over switched to "res" and cranked. No life, waited and cranked. Tried this over and over with no help. I pushed the bike to station. Filled it, waited and cursed my luck. And when I tried again I got instant life. Rest of that trip I kept it full enough to not touch reserves.

Yesterday I wanted to purposefully try it again, run tank out of main capacity, switch to reserve and run that dry (spare in pannier). Bike stuttered when it ran out of main, switched to Res, all good. Then it ran out of reserve, full death, no stuttering.. I poured my 3 pint spare in the tank. No life. At all. Waited and waited, trying to crank every now and then. One point got to idle for a few sec but wouldn't run. choke made no difference.

Eventually braining from the past incident I figured that the added pressure of full fill-up solved the issue. So I blew into the gas tank - tried and instant fire. Running all good like nothing happened.

Sticky float needle? Would seem that it would rather stick open than close? Amy ideas? I removed the hose from the fuel tap and that was running freely.

Has big tank and after market petcock (non-vacuum).

Positives from the weekend - intimidators made a BIG improvement in handling. New 14/46 gearing is much much better on dirt and can still cruise 65mph and even 70+ without too crazy rpm. Despite being jetted to low altitude and after market exhaust, hi comp piston etc. it ran great all the way past 9500ft (the highest I hit).
There are some IMS tanks that have trouble with fuel flow when the fuel gets lower. The uphill loop from the petcock to the carb will get an air bubble and vapor lock. A fuller tank has enough fuel pressure to push fuel through. Other guys with the IMS have no problems with this loop.

You're trying to get this loop as low (flat) as possible.

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Old 04-29-2012, 09:56 PM   #63587
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Thanks, all, for the discussion of the DR and weight distribution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
Mambo .... having ridden lots of Sugar sand in FLA when I was working there, I would most definitely go with the Husky 450 or 510. Both are awesome in sand. I've ridden all kinds of bikes in sand (Including modern KTM's) and the Husky's to me are some of the best through sand. Only the Husabergs match them in deep sand. They just go straight through it ... like a built in steering damper. Very very stable.

The DR is in a different league. For it's weight, it's not bad in deep sand. But since that's all you've got in FLA, (and some mud bogs!) I'd buy Husky and never look back.
The Brand is now very well established and BMW now own the company. Parts and dealers will be around, plus on line support will be good too.

Will the Husky last as long as a DR650? No way. But it's not that pricey to rebuild every 10,000 miles or so. Really really good off road bikes ... and not bad on the street either!
Off Road in deep sand you will struggle on a DR ... on a Husky you will actually have fun!
Neither of the areas outlined in red endear me to the Husky, lol. I use my bikes for commuting, and easily rack up 10k miles in just under 7 months... so rebuilding twice a year would seem excessive ... especially with as dear as BMW feels their parts are. BMW, to me, wants to keep their parts - this can be seen in their pricing of them. I feel that if BMW wants those parts so bad, then they should keep 'em.

Moreover, for the premium costs of BMW's, I'm not inspired by their engineering ability, either, compared to the Jap bikes. This would have been my fear with Husky even if BMW didn't own them... but it's actually doubled the concern, now, instead of halved.

Do I still want one? hell yes... but i have to be real about riding the sands once every few weeks vs. riding at 84 MPH on the highways (about 35 miles of highways, plus side streets, each way). In reality the DR platform with a twin cylinder ~800cc would be what I was after - and yes, that would be way heavier on the front end, but I could deal with that trade off for the power and speed the motor could handle.

My questions here, which you guys answered very well, were more inquisitive to see if i could have it all if I were to accept having a single-cylinder. It doesn't seem like I can though, but maybe the DR650 is still the bike to try (since the option of a big bore kit is available). I'm torn between a budget that can't afford a 990cc KTM, and trying to get something even close to an Africa Twin... but without the headache of an older bike or support structure of a rare-for-the-USA bike.
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:08 PM   #63588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ER70S-2 View Post
There are some IMS tanks that have trouble with fuel flow when the fuel gets lower. The uphill loop from the petcock to the carb will get an air bubble and vapor lock. A fuller tank has enough fuel pressure to push fuel through. Other guys with the IMS have no problems with this loop.

You're trying to get this loop as low (flat) as possible.
Thanks I definitely have more "uphill" on mine. Will check it this week.
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:18 PM   #63589
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Welcome!

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Originally Posted by kerosene View Post
Thanks I definitely have more "uphill" on mine. Will check it this week.
this is a good place to hang out on.
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:28 PM   #63590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
Thanks, all, for the discussion of the DR and weight distribution.

Neither of the areas outlined in red endear me to the Husky, lol. I use my bikes for commuting, and easily rack up 10k miles in just under 7 months... so rebuilding twice a year would seem excessive ... especially with as dear as BMW feels their parts are. BMW, to me, wants to keep their parts - this can be seen in their pricing of them. I feel that if BMW wants those parts so bad, then they should keep 'em.

Moreover, for the premium costs of BMW's, I'm not inspired by their engineering ability, either, compared to the Jap bikes. This would have been my fear with Husky even if BMW didn't own them... but it's actually doubled the concern, now, instead of halved.

Do I still want one? hell yes... but i have to be real about riding the sands once every few weeks vs. riding at 84 MPH on the highways (about 35 miles of highways, plus side streets, each way). In reality the DR platform with a twin cylinder ~800cc would be what I was after - and yes, that would be way heavier on the front end, but I could deal with that trade off for the power and speed the motor could handle.

My questions here, which you guys answered very well, were more inquisitive to see if i could have it all if I were to accept having a single-cylinder. It doesn't seem like I can though, but maybe the DR650 is still the bike to try (since the option of a big bore kit is available). I'm torn between a budget that can't afford a 990cc KTM, and trying to get something even close to an Africa Twin... but without the headache of an older bike or support structure of a rare-for-the-USA bike.
if you can handle the weight once every few weeks, you will love the dr650. to me, it's a featherweight, but that's cuz my other bikes are a '95 buell s2 and a '78 ducati darmah! but, i can tell you my dr650, set up w/motard wheels/tires, improved suspension, upgraded intake exhaust (fcr39 carb/tsukigi-gsxr1000 muffler/kientech hi-flo midpipe/fmf hi-flo powerbomb header), is so much fun on the street, it's ridiculous. and, w/stock gearing, it has no problem cruising at 80, w/blasts higher, if you so desire... big bore kit is not really needed, imo; the bike is plenty fast as-is.

last week, i went riding w/my ex brother-in-law; he took my dr, and i took his dl1000. we went blasting down country roads and highways; he was amazed at the grunt of my bike. and, he's ~6'-3" and ~235lbs presently... if i were wanting to do a lot of off-roading, i'd simply get a set of dirt wheels/tires and call it a day... i'm 6'-0" and only ~155lbs, and i have picked up bikes >450lbs, so i don't see the dr being a problem...

ymmv,

doug s.
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:34 PM   #63591
Adv Grifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo Dave View Post
Thanks, all, for the discussion of the DR and weight distribution.
Neither of the areas outlined in red endear me to the Husky, lol. I use my bikes for commuting, and easily rack up 10k miles in just under 7 months... so rebuilding twice a year would seem excessive ... especially with as dear as BMW feels their parts are. BMW, to me, wants to keep their parts - this can be seen in their pricing of them. I feel that if BMW wants those parts so bad, then they should keep 'em.

Moreover, for the premium costs of BMW's, I'm not inspired by their engineering ability, either, compared to the Jap bikes. This would have been my fear with Husky even if BMW didn't own them... but it's actually doubled the concern, now, instead of halved.

Do I still want one? hell yes... but i have to be real about riding the sands once every few weeks vs. riding at 84 MPH on the highways (about 35 miles of highways, plus side streets, each way). In reality the DR platform with a twin cylinder ~800cc would be what I was after - and yes, that would be way heavier on the front end, but I could deal with that trade off for the power and speed the motor could handle.

My questions here, which you guys answered very well, were more inquisitive to see if i could have it all if I were to accept having a single-cylinder. It doesn't seem like I can though, but maybe the DR650 is still the bike to try (since the option of a big bore kit is available). I'm torn between a budget that can't afford a 990cc KTM, and trying to get something even close to an Africa Twin... but without the headache of an older bike or support structure of a rare-for-the-USA bike.
I tend to agree with your comments about BMW. I assumed you would buy a used Husky ... one made by Husky before the BMW take over. Maybe I mis-read your first post or missed some of it. But with BMW running things it's likely parts availability would be good ... but expensive. That's why I own a DR650 and not a BMW ... or Husky. (still, very nice machines)

I thought you were asking how the DR is in sand. Did you mention commuting 10K miles in 7 months? I thought you were looking for a dual sport bike with emphasis on dirt riding in sand? Guess I missed that part.

All that said ... the DR650 is a fantastic commuter. Fast, smooth and super reliable. (mine is at 45,000 miles) If set up right it's better than any twin or other big adventure bike in sand or anywhere off road. No brain-er ... it's 130 lbs. lighter weight than a 990 or F800GS. Now price a used DR650.
Best value today in motorcycling, IMHO.

If you can afford it ... I'd get any economical street bike for commuting .. and buy a dirt bike for dirt riding. 10,000 miles takes a long time to accumulate if riding only off road.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:08 PM   #63592
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my bike at 9400 or so ft. Seems to run fine from sea level l to here.

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Old 04-29-2012, 11:09 PM   #63593
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fuel flow

Quote:
Originally Posted by ER70S-2 View Post
There are some IMS tanks that have trouble with fuel flow when the fuel gets lower. The uphill loop from the petcock to the carb will get an air bubble and vapor lock. A fuller tank has enough fuel pressure to push fuel through. Other guys with the IMS have no problems with this loop.

You're trying to get this loop as low (flat) as possible.

My "uphill" with the new Acerbis tank for the DR is even way more severe than that. When I first installed it, it wouldnt flow any fuel at all, even with a full tank. I could NOT figure out how to get fuel to flow UPhill. So i disconnectd the fuel line from the carb and pointed it down and turned on the fuel for a second and it gushed. So now with fuel in the line I reattached to the carb and it runs great, no flow problems. Its all working on the siphon principle which says that liquid wants to rise to its own level, so as long as the fuel in the tank doesnt get lower than the high point on your "uphill", it will flow in all sorts of directions to get as high as the level in the tank. (all new to me, i was never a hooligan and siphoned gas as a youngster.) My question is what happens if I run out of the main, creating no fuel in the line, then I want to switch to reserve.....Will it again have flow issues? I ran the carb dry by accident the other day by running it dry with the petcock in the off position, and as it sputtered, I turned it to ON and it came to life, so there was no flow problem there, but I'm still worried about the flow when I hit reserve. The guys running Agualine Safari tanks must have some good answers on this. I even tried to bend over the fuel inlet tube to flat, but it would NOT budge. I've seen others do this, so maybe the carb has to come off and apart to accomplish this.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:27 PM   #63594
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Originally Posted by Go Irish75 View Post
My question is what happens if I run out of the main, creating no fuel in the line, then I want to switch to reserve.....Will it again have flow issues? I ran the carb dry by accident the other day by running it dry with the petcock in the off position, and as it sputtered, I turned it to ON and it came to life, so there was no flow problem there, but I'm still worried about the flow when I hit reserve. The guys running Agualine Safari tanks must have some good answers on this. I even tried to bend over the fuel inlet tube to flat, but it would NOT budge. I've seen others do this, so maybe the carb has to come off and apart to accomplish this.
Do as I did - blow in the tank. As you have your moth over the gas cap keeping pressure the fuel fumes will rise to your mouth. not so nice.

But that is exactly what happened to me on the 1st time I had trouble. Ran min dry and tried switching to res - no life.

If fuel pressure from gravity is lower than the buoyancy of the air bubble there will be no flow.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:29 PM   #63595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerosene View Post
Not sure how well you guys can help in this vague thing.
Bike: DR650, The bike is new to me (few weeks or a month now), well kept and runs like champ. Has big tank and after market petcock (non-vacuum line and has off position). Stock carb. (same petcock as in the picture just posted - yellow tank one).

Few weeks ago bike the bike ran out of fuel while the petcock was set to "ON", I pulled over switched to "res" and cranked. No life, waited and cranked. Tried this over and over with no help. I pushed the bike to station. Filled it, waited and cursed my luck. And when I tried again I got instant life. Rest of that trip I kept it full enough to not touch reserves.

Yesterday I wanted to purposefully try it again, run tank out of main capacity, switch to reserve and run that dry (spare in pannier). Bike stuttered when it ran out of main, switched to Res, all good. Then it ran out of reserve, full death, no stuttering.. I poured my 3 pint spare in the tank. No life. At all. Waited and waited, trying to crank every now and then. One point got to idle for a few sec but wouldn't run. choke made no difference.

Eventually braining from the past incident I figured that the added pressure of full fill-up solved the issue. So I blew into the gas tank - tried and instant fire. Running all good like nothing happened.

Sticky float needle? Would seem that it would rather stick open than close? Amy ideas? I removed the hose from the fuel tap and that was running freely.

Has big tank and after market petcock (non-vacuum).


Positives from the weekend - intimidators made a BIG improvement in handling. New 14/46 gearing is much much better on dirt and can still cruise 65mph and even 70+ without too crazy rpm. Despite being jetted to low altitude and after market exhaust, hi comp piston etc. it ran great all the way past 9500ft (the highest I hit).
I'm running an IMS/Pingel set up with a relatively horizontal clear fuel line. When I switch to reserve and there's no flow, I "flick" the line with my finger, the air bubble heads north & the fuel starts flowing.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:38 PM   #63596
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerosene View Post
Do as I did - blow in the tank. As you have your moth over the gas cap keeping pressure the fuel fumes will rise to your mouth. not so nice.

But that is exactly what happened to me on the 1st time I had trouble. Ran min dry and tried switching to res - no life.

If fuel pressure from gravity is lower than the buoyancy of the air bubble there will be no flow.
The Safari tank needed that every time I went to reserve on the move,only stopping (no choice there) and blowing in the vent hose would get it to spring back to life.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:57 PM   #63597
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blowing into the vent hose seems 100x smarter than what I did. And I was feeling so smug about solving the issue on the roadside. live and learn :)
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:02 AM   #63598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xplorr View Post
Hey all, I've been through the index, and several previous jetting pages in this thread, but now I must appeal to the collective. I've been trying to dial in my jetting after installing a GSXR1000 can with powerbomb header. Initially, I used a DJ needle with clip in top position, Mikuni 152.5 main, 42.5 pilot and airbox sidecover off; it ran well and got ~46mpg.

I wanted to try and get the airbox cover back on and not cut the top of the airbox, so I got the factory pro kit. I'm currently running factory pro needle in 2nd notch from bottom, 140 Mikuni main, 42.5 pilot, and fuel screw 2 turns out, snorkel removed, and I'm getting ~36-38 mpg. (I had the clip in the middle on the current setup, but taking off from a stop, I would have to rev the throttle over a stumble in the low end, so I dropped the needle to the 2nd from bottom and it [fixed] it.)

I've been under the assumption that the fuel screw controls fuel and not air mixture, so I've been trying to keep that further in for fuel economy? I've also been led to understand that leaning out jetting (ie smaller and smaller jets) does not always correspond bet fuel economy? Also, currently I don't need to choke it (at 40-50 degrees F), so when it warms up it'll be too rich?

Obviously, I could go back to the DJ setup and get the better mileage and deal with the open airbox (I ride a lot of dirt and have a hard enough time keeping the air filter clean). I just assumed I could get the jetting dialed in for a stock airbox (without the snorkel). I recently gave the carb the pine-sol treatment-- cleaned up purdy. Ideally I'd like to get the mileage 50mpg or better. Another issue I've considered is that running an 18" rear with 15/48 gearing, maybe 46 is as good as I can expect to get?

I sure would appreciate any insights or corrections you might have.

Thanks, matt
Make sure that the slide, slide guide and emulsion tube are not worn out. Make sure that the slide lift hole area has not been increased. See http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=304, http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=303, http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=348, http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=300, http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=298 and http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=305.

The rubber tip of the float needle should be inspected under magnification. It should perfectly conical, with no witness line evident where it was contacting the seat. If any evidence is visible, or if there is a gap between the bottom edge of the rubber tip and the aluminum portion of the needle, if the plunger is stuck, or if the plunger return spring is sacked out, the needle should be replaced. Not doing so means that the float valve is leaking, or will begin leaking soon. While the float cage is removed, you should inspect the float needle seat and cold start enrichment feed pipe o-rings. If they are shrunken, hardened, cracked, deformed, or otherwise damaged they should be replaced.

Using a float setting tool, set the float height to 14.7 mm and adjust the idle mixture. Procedure for setting the float height:

Hold the carb in one hand and hold the base of the cage tightly against the carb body with the index finger of the same hand. Rotate the carb so that the float tang just contacts the float needle's spring loaded plunger, but does not depress it. With the other hand, using a float height setting gauge set to 14.7mm, check the float height on both sides (as the float may have some twist in it). Bend the float tang until the tang on the float height setting tool just contacts the float, but does not depress it.

Procedure for setting idle mixture:

Start the engine and warm it up. Lower the idle speed below the factory spec. Starting from a setting that is known to be lean (1-1/2 turns is likely but not guaranteed to be), adjust the fuel screw to obtain the highest idle speed. Adjust to 1/8 - 1/4 turn richer than that. Then, adjust the idle speed back to 1500 rpm. Report back with the final fuel screw setting.

Put some tape on the throttle housing and the edge of the grip. Mark zero throttle with a sharpie. This is best done with the engine idling, so you can tell when the slack in the cable has just been taken up. Turn off the engine and mark wide open. Now take a tape measure (metric works best in my opinion) and measure the length of the arc. Put a mark at the mid point. Duplicate this procedure to mark the mid-point between here and zero throttle opening to get 1/4 open. Repeat for 1/8 and 1/16 openings.

Then tune from the top down, i.e. get the right main jet in it for proper wide open throttle operation, then set the needle clip position for correct operation at 1/4 opening, then install the correct pilot jet for proper operation at 1/16-1/8 opening. Readjust the idle mixture after every jetting change. Without the ability to dyno with 4- or 5-gas analysis, I would go progressively leaner until there was just the very beginning of a discernible misbehavior. On the main jet, I would then go 2-3 sizes richer. On the needle clip, I would then adjust 1-2 positions richer. On the pilot jet, I would install 1-2 sizes larger. Please do bear in mind that if you have high compression, poor exhaust flow, low octane fuel, and/or ignition timing that is either correct or overadvanced for the correct mixture, tuning via this method could cause detonation and therefore engine damage.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:10 AM   #63599
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Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post
Some owners drill the plastic slide with an additional hole. Is this what you mean? Drilling the slide is said to quicken throttle response and lessen off throttle lag.
It will also cause accelerated slide guide, slide, emulsion tube and jet needle wear.

Regards,

Derek
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:53 AM   #63600
Mambo Dave
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Thanks doug and Grifter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adv Grifter View Post

I thought you were asking how the DR is in sand. Did you mention commuting 10K miles in 7 months? I thought you were looking for a dual sport bike with emphasis on dirt riding in sand? Guess I missed that part.

...
If you can afford it ... I'd get any economical street bike for commuting .. and buy a dirt bike for dirt riding. 10,000 miles takes a long time to accumulate if riding only off road.
No, I wasn't too specific of my needs, sorry. I was more asking about the DR and other bikes knowing well enough that my own needs have to be taken into account.

The most recent example of a modern-day dual sport bike I've sat on, besides WeeStroms at dealerships, was a KLR650 that I was allowed to test ride. I found it to be a very neutral riding position, and just about exactly what I would want for a commuter bike... even on the highway. ... Except for a few reasons I don't want a KLR, I'd rather have the DR650. My point only being that the neutral riding position of such bikes seems better than anything I can currently find in a modern road-motorcycle that I could, or would, use instead to commute on.

One of my current bikes has no fairing, and the other has a tiny windshield that only comes into effect in a full-race tuck... so I'm kind of used to not having a fairing for high speeds, rain, etc. In fact, once it gets hot the lack of fairings or windshields probably helps push air (albeit hot, humid air) through my mesh ATGATT stuff.

Also, due to my parking needs, and doing my own work on the bike, I prefer lighter bikes. The Vulcan I have is about the heaviest I'd ever want to deal with for where I live since I have to move the bike around tight areas sometimes, or lift one end of them to adjust them on a home-built stand.

I'd probably start with the original wheels and just put street-tires on it until I researched super-moto wheels. Right now i ride through so much heavy and standing rain that a narrow 21" front tire works the best for maintaining higher speeds when all of the cars slow down to ~15 MPH to avoid hydroplaning, or because they just can't see. I don't like slowing down when I have 40 miles to cover, so I would worry if a typical super-moto 17" front wheel with its wider, but shorter, tire would hydroplane too easily since it is both wider and spinning faster than the 21". I could do the other things needed to improve the suspension to make it a stable highway / street bike, but I may not be able to give up on the cutting ability of a 21". We don't really have the curvy roads and such to make a super-motor wheel-set worth it around here anyway. 350 miles to the North, maybe, but not here.
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X bike won't work in Y scenario rather than actually riding
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." --
RyanR

Mambo Dave screwed with this post 04-30-2012 at 02:18 AM
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