Selling a vehicle on Craig'slist, and payments

[One Less Harley]

I can't believe it the guy sent me another email, but it's the same as his 1st one. I already told him I knew it was a scam and told him authorities have been alerted, although they haven't.

This is what I sent

I'll need your full name, place of residence, phone # attached to your place of residence, plus cell number. The name, address of your transporter and his business address, plus his DOT information since he is transporting the vehicle.

If you cannot supply this information then there is no point in continuing.


Oh well,

[bmweuro]

In all of my Craigslist ads I state that I will not respond to anyone that does not reply with a phone number. If someone is serious they should be willing to talk on the phone. I like doing a bank wire transfer on big ticket items.

[ontic]

Originally Posted by disston

There. Right there the person who shows up is receiving stolen property. I say we bait these people and when the "shipper" shows up we beat the shit out of them.

Alright, might not be such a good idea. But I think they know what's going on.

In my example I doubt a shipper would have ever turned up (this guy was saying he wanted to ship a 30ft keelboat overseas). In most of these examples I think the scam would be much simpler than that- ie, Shipper will be there next week.... Hang on, he requires prepayment to book it in, I'll transfer the money to you then you transfer it to him... the scammer sends you uncleared funds, you send your own money to 'the shipper' and the scammers funds disappear leaving you in the negative. Something like that. I'm not sure how it works.
If there was actual shippers turning up and taking (stolen) vehicles then where are they going and what is happening to them? I doubt they are going to nigeria or anywhere else where the scams originate from. Is there a domestic organisation involved? Either way, that sort of racket would be the kind of domestic organised crime that authorities would be quite interested in I would think.
I could be wrong, but I doubt there is much of anything more than emails and online transactions involved in these scams.

Either way I have ZERO sympathy for the people doing this. I don't care where you are from or how poor you are- a lot of these scams have the potential to destroy the lives of people being scammed.

[One Less Harley]

ontic- your probably right. as these people want easy money w/ little effort. So if one is dumb enough to forward money to an account to pay the shipper that doesn't exists, but I'm sure it works w/ some less than brite people.

[ontic]

Oh yeah, it works, otherwise we wouldn't all be getting these emails. It's just a numbers game. That is why I like to try to waste a maximum of their time with a minimal investment of our time. (trick is to type as little as possible and get them to actually have to type out to you and not just cut and paste in pre-written replies- this is where playing dumb helps)

And it is a small point, but I also don't really like calling the victims things like 'dumb'- gullible and a bit naive and over-trusting certainly- but no real reason to blame the victim. Everyone is new to the internet at some point and a lot of people learn slow. People get told on the one hand to get online and sell your items- it's easy and you will make money. Then they get a buyer that quickly communicates with them and offers an easy solution where they sell their item for their asking price and it will get picked up by a shipper. Sounds real easy. People see money in their account, forward only some of it on, and don't realise they are getting screwed until it is too late.

[One Less Harley]

another thing, I thought that if I transferred money from PayPal to my account the money would be safe. But in speaking to a friend about that, he suggested that PayPal does have my account information and "MAY" be able to withdraw the money from my account to protect their own interest. Like a buyer dispute or some other unforeseen issue as PayPal won't be left empty handed but I could be. As PayPal has access to my bank account and one credit card acct.

Sound like a very good case for a bank wire transfer!!!!

[One Less Harley]

Originally Posted by ontic

And it is a small point, but I also don't really like calling the victims things like 'dumb'- gullible and a bit naive and over-trusting certainly- but no real reason to blame the victim..

yes too true.........my mistake

[ontic]

I just checked through my emails with the last scammer.
He wanted to pay me with Paypal the complete asking price and include on top of this a payment for the amount to pay for the shipping. He then wanted me to forward that amount for shipping on through a Western Union transaction to the shipper.
I was having a tough day so that was when I let rip at the scum bag.

Next time I will look further into how to screw with them. I love some of the stories on the 419 site where people have actually scammed the scammers.

[chasbmw]

You need to be careful with PayPal, mid something is bought off you via eBay, paid with PayPal and they pick the goods up personally, you as the seller have no protection if they dispute the item through PayPal, and PayPal will take the money back.

Check the PayPal small print you have to use a tracked signed for shipping service, if you want to stand a chance of meeting the terms of the vendors guarantee and you have to watch the timescales as well.

I sold an scanner on eBay for £500, got paid via PayPal, then the buyers credit card cancelled the payment due to security reasons, luckily I had used a tracked signed for postage and was able to prove to PayPal that the item had been delivered and so my account was put back in credit. It's not a great process, really impersonal and you have to hunt around to find out what to do. Stressful.

And yes that email has all the marks of a scam.

[AntonLargiader]

Friend of mine knows someone who was scammed. Buyer used PayPal, car was 'sold', buyer files dispute and gets money back. He lost the car, and would have to go to court to get it back (knows where it is, and apparently it has been through one or two sales since then). Not worth the court cost, apparently.

So, possibly it's not considered stolen if the title is signed over, no matter what happens with the payment. Fraud, sure, but not stolen property.

[Hawk Medicine]

Originally Posted by AntonLargiader

Friend of mine knows someone who was scammed. Buyer used PayPal, car was 'sold', buyer files dispute and gets money back. He lost the car, and would have to go to court to get it back (knows where it is, and apparently it has been through one or two sales since then). Not worth the court cost, apparently.

So, possibly it's not considered stolen if the title is signed over, no matter what happens with the payment. Fraud, sure, but not stolen property.

All the more reason to deal in CASH and not to sign anything over until everything is hunky-dory.

Last time I bought a bimbo bike I made sure that the seller took care of the current registration and proved it with a receipt from the Cali DMV. Then he signed the bike over to me, I paid in cash and went straight to the DMV to do the transfer.

I never, ever sell through Ebay/PayPal without the item being insired and having delivery confirmation. With CL I want either cash up front or a postal MO including shipping costs in hand.

It also pays to be a good judge of people!

[AntonLargiader]

I just bought a camera lens today, off CL. Emailed the guy this morning, tried to sound like an actual person, he called me back. We met for lunch, BSed about photography and bicycles, I handed him a wad of cash and left with the lens. Will probably see him at a camera club meeting some time.

That's how it's supposed to work! :)

[crazydrummerdude]

I wheel and deal on CL all the time, and always deal in cash.

One time a guy was buying some piddly stuff from me and needed ME to take him to his ATM after he already showed up at my house to buy it. While we were on the way back, he needed to stop off at the gas station.. where he realized he left his card in the ATM.

Get back to my house and he buys my stuff, then asks if my Blazer was for sale. "Sure, $1000." "Would you take payments?" "On a $1000 vehicle from someone I just met? No."