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Old 05-03-2012, 05:36 AM   #16
Narsisco Lopez OP
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Originally Posted by japslap View Post
This may be a stupid question,but why is it that the makers of these aftermarket tanks,cant get the same finish that KTM do on the factory ones.ie why are they porous? iv never had anyone answer me that one,my buddy had a CCM which had a plastic tank,and the paint and decals just peeled right off.Im guessing that my orange 990 has the colour injected into the plastic,or is it that it has an inner container that holds the fuel and that is then bonded to the outer tank.Thing is say here in the UK i go to the petrol station and fill up one of the 5 litre plastic jerry cans with fuel and put it in the boot of the car,that does'nt leak or become porous,so wondering why the Aqualine tanks etc do.
I obviously can't speak for Aqualine's engineers and designers, but I think they were going for durability and tank integrity first and foremost.

And while I might be totally full of shit, I don't believe it's gas/petrol that's venting... my limited experience with plastics while working for a medical manufacturer as an engineer (WAY back in the 80s) leads me to think the fuel in the tanks is reacting chemically with the plastic and it's the plastic that's out-gassing. So, this "theory" says the tanks aren't "porous", just reactive. My home shop doesn't include a spectro analysis lab, so I can't prove it definitively

Damn... Ball Labs is right up the road in Boulder and a brother of a close family friend is a lead scientist there; wonder if I can talk him into letting me roll my bike into their facilities for testing?
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Narsisco Lopez screwed with this post 05-03-2012 at 08:06 AM
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:08 AM   #17
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Eek

Only one picture in this " graphics" thread......fail
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:14 AM   #18
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Only one picture in this " graphics" thread......fail
Just came up with the concept and mock-up last night. Gimme a few days to get the actual vinyl cut and applied... I work fast, but not THAT fast
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:23 AM   #19
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Laugh

Waiting............
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:58 AM   #20
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Very nice!

That looks outstanding ...


Your Words have Sparked An Idea: The chemical reactive gasses released behind paint and stickers separates the adhesive bond (causes bubbles) ... So then what about a bond that has no bond ... A wrap that allows those gasses to travel and escape on the back side of the tank.

Looking at your tank (And it Looks Good) I wondered about this as an inexpensive solution. First wrap the tank front and back with packaging cling wrap ... Then wrap with automotive repair fiberglass sheets (they come in pretty good sizes and prices) ... Apply hardener and let cure.

Now go to the back with an sharp blade and cut out some venting holes for the escaping gasses ... If the swelling of the tank is not strong enough to crack or break the fiberglass from the inside out ... This might be an inexpensive way to stop tank swelling and give a surface that can be wrapped with 3M or even painted ...

I had originally thought about wrapping with carbon fiber or kevlar directly over the plastic tank but your vinyl wrap cling wrap got me to thinkin again ... I might try this one day ... Or maybe one of you guys will chime in and say something like ... Na, That Wont Work!
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:21 AM   #21
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Seems like a cheap experiment and worthy of a shot.

Another inmate was talking about sealing the INSIDE of the tank and included a link to a German site which had a video showing the mult-step process. But, damn it... I thought I'd bookmarked it, but can't find it. Anybody see it and remember where it is?

Anyway... all these ideas have validity and are worth exploring if we're ever gonna succeed at dressing up these tanks a bit
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:29 AM   #22
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Would it be possible to dye the the tank ? Obviously the finish wouldnt be as nice but might be a nice solution to folks with the yellow ones. Just a thought
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:55 AM   #23
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I had couple of Warn fender flares for a Jeep painted years ago. I remember there was an extensive process used to get the paint to stick to them. They said they had to bake the flares to "sweat out" the oils in the plastic, then wipe them down with something and bake them again.

All the plastic tanks I have felt seem like the same type of plastic. I'm sure that some of these smaller companies just don't go to the extra time, effort and expense to prep their "off road" tanks before selling them.

If you took a set of these to a GOOD body shop they could probbly get paint to stick to them. Then you could do whatever you want to over them.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:51 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleefurd View Post
Black Safari Tanks (expected any day... were suppose to be here by April 19th)
Man, DO I feel your pain!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cleefurd View Post
Which brings me to why I feel you are psychic.... THAT CARBON WRAP IS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWSUmmmmmmmmm
Thanks... let's hope it lasts more than a few days before the leprosy kicks in
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:54 AM   #25
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Would it be possible to dye the the tank ? Obviously the finish wouldnt be as nice but might be a nice solution to folks with the yellow ones. Just a thought
I recently did a lot of research on coloring an IMS tank. If the Safari is also made of Polyethylene it is nearly impossible to get a durable color change to last.

In order to dye this material the temps required will likely deform the shape of the tank.

No paints, household dyes or solid decals have any long-lasting reviews in the several forums I've looked in. Everything I've read has eventually been disappointing.

Reading in non-mc forums about dying plastics (RC cars, plastic industry, DIY sites, etc.) have all indicated that the only way to permanently color this type of plastic is during the initial creation of the part.

I think that the perforated wrap (like those used on windows) has the best chance to survive on this plastic that has a tendency to absorb and out-gas the fuel fumes. This is similar to the material the after-market provides to the MX crowd for their graphics.

Looking forward to seeing how this goes. I'm still wanting to try a wrap on the IMS for my DRZ, and will be following your tests.

Thanks!
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:46 AM   #26
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I've had a large piece of black vinyl (8"x8") stuck to my tank for the last three weeks to see how well it would hold. It is sticking just fine and has not bubbled. That is good 'cause that word "Adventure" has to go!
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:04 AM   #27
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Cotton vinyl...

I'm surprised no one has gotten a stitched safari tank cover out of cotton vinyl like we used to have in the late 70's on our plastic and metal desert tanks. That cotton breathes really well. You can get it in many colors. It's easy to work with. Any good upholsterer can put one together. It would probably be a great UV blocker. You can adhere decals on them.

But I still think the carbon fiber looking plastic wrap looks tits.

All those lucky Safari super Tankers...
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Old 05-04-2012, 05:16 AM   #28
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cotton vinyl ...
Thats Interesting
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Old 05-04-2012, 07:04 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoTex View Post
I recently did a lot of research on coloring an IMS tank. If the Safari is also made of Polyethylene it is nearly impossible to get a durable color change to last.

In order to dye this material the temps required will likely deform the shape of the tank.

No paints, household dyes or solid decals have any long-lasting reviews in the several forums I've looked in. Everything I've read has eventually been disappointing.

Reading in non-mc forums about dying plastics (RC cars, plastic industry, DIY sites, etc.) have all indicated that the only way to permanently color this type of plastic is during the initial creation of the part.

I think that the perforated wrap (like those used on windows) has the best chance to survive on this plastic that has a tendency to absorb and out-gas the fuel fumes. This is similar to the material the after-market provides to the MX crowd for their graphics.

Looking forward to seeing how this goes. I'm still wanting to try a wrap on the IMS for my DRZ, and will be following your tests.

Thanks!
Yeah that's pretty much it. Some plastic tanks like the OEM KTM big bike tanks are made from Nylon (Polyamide 6 ) and those don't breathe, so they can be painted just fine. They weigh more however and are not as robust as a PE tank (which the factory rally bikes use).
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:18 PM   #30
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..ask your brother what he'd charge to wrap my 2011 Sprinter's hood in the same "carbon" he used on your tank

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