Spidi Ergo 365 Expedition Suit - first pictures

[Valentino]

Nice review. What a great looking suit! It really suits you too

Originally Posted by moggi1964

That's what attracted me to it in addition to the safety certifications.

The CE Level 2 certification is a big selling point. It will make me try on an Ergo Pro for size when I need a new suit.

It's a shame that Spidi didn't include an airbag version this time. Whereas the Spidi Venture jacket comes with an airbag option:
www.spidi.com/eu/eu_en/textile-motorcycle-jackets/venture-neck-dps.html

As its "safest jacket", Spidi forces you to choose between an airbag jacket or a CE Level 2 jacket. It's a shame you can't have both in one jacket.

[moggi1964]

Originally Posted by Valentino

Nice review. What a great looking suit! It really suits you too



The CE Level 2 certification is a big selling point. It will make me try on an Ergo Pro for size when I need a new suit.

It's a shame that Spidi didn't include an airbag version this time. Whereas the Spidi Venture jacket comes with an airbag option:
www.spidi.com/eu/eu_en/textile-motorcycle-jackets/venture-neck-dps.html

As its "safest jacket", Spidi forces you to choose between an airbag jacket or a CE Level 2 jacket. It's a shame you can't have both in one jacket.

I did consider the separate airbag route but when I look back on what I used to ride in (I'll post pictures at some point) I figure I have to draw the line somewhere. Level 2 clothing with 1 and 2 protectors and a bloody good pair of gloves (and let's not forget the Arai lid) is about as advanced as I aim to go. If that lot doesn't work then at least my headstone can say

"He tried!"

[MZ5]

Nice-looking suit. Tell me:
Is the CE Level 2 certification for both pieces, or just the jacket? Also,
Do you have to have all layers in place for it to achieve the Level 2 certification, or is all that toughness entirely within the outer layer?
I know that at least in 1 competitive jacket (CE certified, which most are not, of couse), the certification requires all layers to be in place. Anything less than all of them, it doesn't pass the test.

[moggi1964]

Originally Posted by MZ5

Nice-looking suit. Tell me:
Is the CE Level 2 certification for both pieces, or just the jacket? Also,
Do you have to have all layers in place for it to achieve the Level 2 certification, or is all that toughness entirely within the outer layer?
I know that at least in 1 competitive jacket (CE certified, which most are not, of couse), the certification requires all layers to be in place. Anything less than all of them, it doesn't pass the test.

I suggest checking with Matteo in the Vendor forum (there is a Spidi thread) but my understanding is that the material used in the outer shell (jacket and trouser) is certified to level 2; the other layers (H2out and thermal) are not contributing to that at all (that I can confirm) so that must be the case I think.

This level 2 certification in a jacket that feels so nice to the touch is impressive in my opinion. I didn't like the rough feeling of a competing jacket that I tried (that didn't have CE2 but may well qualify for it if they ran the test).

[MZ5]

I agree with you on the feel; Spidi makes some nice-feeling stuff!

There's a great deal more to CE certification of a jacket and/or pants than just abrasion-resistance of the shell material, but perhaps you know that.

I've asked Spidi this before, but not Matteo in particular. Perhaps this product is different than what they've had available in the past.

[moggi1964]

Originally Posted by MZ5

I agree with you on the feel; Spidi makes some nice-feeling stuff!

There's a great deal more to CE certification of a jacket and/or pants than just abrasion-resistance of the shell material, but perhaps you know that.

I've asked Spidi this before, but not Matteo in particular. Perhaps this product is different than what they've had available in the past.

EN 13595-2:2002 - Protective clothing for professional motorcycle riders. Jackets, trousers and one piece or divided suits. Test method for determination of impact abrasion resistance.

There is also this

http://www.satra.co.uk/spotlight/dow...e_clothing.pdf

So from what I have read this CE part 2 takes all the aspects of Part 1 but then requires additional abrasion resistance time in part 2.

Definitely ask Matteo, he seems very forthcoming in his responses and let me know if he says anything that worries you

[MZ5]

Yes, 4 seconds vs. 7 in zones 1 and 2 is the difference between levels 1 and 2 under EN 13595 (jackets, trousers, & suits). This page:
http://www.bmf.co.uk/pages/briefing_...?fullstory=435
has a decent digest of the rest of what's needed (cut resistance, burst strength, things like armor and cuffs staying in place, etc), but you'll have to scroll down and pick through the other specs.

I will likely ask directly/privately, as I have in the past, whether new clothing is different/better than previous versions, and how many of the included layers are required to achieve the certification.

[moggi1964]

Originally Posted by MZ5

Yes, 4 seconds vs. 7 in zones 1 and 2 is the difference between levels 1 and 2 under EN 13595 (jackets, trousers, & suits). This page:
http://www.bmf.co.uk/pages/briefing_...?fullstory=435
has a decent digest of the rest of what's needed (cut resistance, burst strength, things like armor and cuffs staying in place, etc), but you'll have to scroll down and pick through the other specs.

I will likely ask directly/privately, as I have in the past, whether new clothing is different/better than previous versions, and how many of the included layers are required to achieve the certification.

Great article; thanks. Let me know if you get a response.

[moggi1964]

So I got the chance to wear the jacket today.

Weather started cool so three layered then when things started warming up I went straight to one.

The back protector is invisible once you are on the bike and the jacket felt almost weightless. Doesn't feel like it needs 'breaking in' at all, everything moves like it should with no effort.

It got pretty warm (76f) out and given that we were standing around on the MSF course and then riding at 15mph max the rest of the time, the suit performed really well. I opened all the vents but frankly it was difficult to get any airflow at 15mph. I did notice that even when standing in direct sunlight the suit didn't feel like it was absorbing heat from the sun.

I had a wicking layer on as a base so this will have helped too in the cooling department.

So hot weather performance is still to be tested but this first tryout left me feeling really good about my purchase.

It's early days and no real testing can take place till I get my Explorer so more to come soon.

[Maxyb]

So... done any riding yet?
I'm keen to hear how the suit turns out-seems you're stoked with it so far.
I'm planning on getting one when i go over to europe later this year (from the HQ, i figured they're have more stock there somehow)
A question i want to ask you is about the cleanliness of the white - ie, does it get dirty quick as most white clothes do, or does the dirt not soak in?

Cheers, Max

[moggi1964]

Originally Posted by Maxyb

So... done any riding yet?
I'm keen to hear how the suit turns out-seems you're stoked with it so far.
I'm planning on getting one when i go over to europe later this year (from the HQ, i figured they're have more stock there somehow)
A question i want to ask you is about the cleanliness of the white - ie, does it get dirty quick as most white clothes do, or does the dirt not soak in?

Cheers, Max

Max,
still waiting for my Explorer to arrive so no rides yet. The sleeve on the jacket got dirty the other week so I just wiped it clean. Certainly it will show the dirt more than a black suit but that will just make you look more like a rugged adventurer when you get to Starbucks

The color is more of a cream than a white so it isn't quite as bad as my old cricket trousers used to be.

By the end of May I expect to be riding most days and reporting back. I hope to get a chance early on to try it out in heavy rain both without and with the liners to see how it holds up. I will definitely post here.

I envy your chance to go to the office in Italy. Be sure to check in with Matteo before you go.

[moggi1964]

Revzilla just posted this review of the jacket

http://youtu.be/3e7NBgTcdRA

It's a 15 minute review so make time

[Maxyb]

Cool mate, i'll have my ear to the ground
congrats on the new bike too

Max

[moggi1964]

Originally Posted by Balkan Boy

Moggi,
I have a few questions about things I don't like about this suit. It's all nitpicking, but some small things are making me look at inferior suits.

- How do you like all the removable stuff like pockets, cuff snaps and that map thing? Do you find it practical? Do you feel it will stay in place after 50,000 miles?

The zippers and snaps are very sturdy and secure. I don't expect I will be taking the pockets on and off frequently, probably just for different seasons. The hydropack/map on the back will not likely get used for either purpose this year as I don't plan on venturing 'off-piste' but I can see the hydropack being useful when I don't see me using the map pocket at all. I will keep it on though because it does have additional reflective material on it (though I have already removed the hydropack). The cuff snap system is great, allowing me to get a perfect fit whether I am wearing the jacket alone or with liners. Also, when I was on my MSF course I actually unzipped the cuff zip and just had the snap system hold the cuff in place which allowed a little extra air to flow up my arm. I haven't examined whether this would be possible and safe at higher speeds. So given all that I DO think they will be very durable. 50k? I couldn't say but I hope so.

- How do you like the chest protector and will those 4 snaps actually hold it place? Does it get in the way too much when taking the jacket on and off?

Chest protector is easy to use; the snaps are strong and you just don't know it is there. When I unzip the jacket it is a very simple task to unsnap two of the snaps and remove the jacket with the protector in.

- How easy is it to put the jacket on and off with all the liners and bells and whistles? Do liners stay connected if you pull a bit harder? I'm asking because of all the snaps connecting everything.

The liners are connected such that they require a definite attempt to unsnap them to get them to come apart. A tug on the liner will not come close to being sufficient. The liner for the pants has the same mesh inside it as the pants themselves so your leg slides in and out easily. I have thin legs so that makes it easier of course but given the feel of the material there is no way it would be inclined to grab your leg no matter how chunky. The H2O liner for the jacket does not have that mesh but the material on the inside of the liner has a slightly odd 'Teflon' kind of feel to it. I haven't tried putting it on with wet arms so can't say if it would stick to you initially but my guess would be no just because of the 'non-stick- feeling that material gives. Once the thermal liner is inside, of course, the double liner feels very comfortable (I have been wearing it as a standalone this week to test out its waterproof ability and it has been 100% so far). The jacket does not feel bulky with the liners and that is no surprise given how little bulk they have.

- Is the collar cinch cord effective?

I can't say as I haven't used it yet

- Aren't all those instruction pictures a bit unnecessary?

Well they don't take away anything from the performance of the jacket and they probably will be a talking point at Starbucks I didn't give them a second thought to be honest.

- Did you consider any other suits?


I did look at two other options when I was at Revzilla in PA (I definitely wanted to buy something I could try on and given I am new to textile materials I wanted some in-store advice). The Klim Badlands appears to be a very well made jacket and takes the bonded waterproof approach. It felt heavier than the Spidi and a little more rigid though that may change with use. I just didn't like the material on the outside of the jacket, it felt rough like it would remove paint if I brushed against a wall. I don't think it would of course but that did put me off. They also only have it in Black and I really wanted to get something 'not Black' if I could though this was lower on my list of criteria. The other jacket I tried on was the Revit Defender (I think) but the cut on this jacket just did not sit comfortably on me even though I tried a couple of sizes. Like with gloves, I do think that some manufacturers have a certain frame in mind when they cut a jacket and mine was more Spidi than Revit. I am 5'10", 175 and a 42" chest. The Revit did look equally well constructed as the Klim and the Spidi.


What I really like about the suit is the armor, materials, liners, clever design and functionality but overall not so much.

I had a list of things the suit had to meet for me to but it: Fit; Safety; Durability; Seasonal Flexibility and Manufacturer Support. The Spidi scored very high on all those points, especially the fit and safety. Durability is an unknown but I based my perception of it on the quality of the construction and the tenacity of the materials used in construction. The setup will be 4 season though I may look for a more ventilated setup for the very hot and humid days (in part because I am not sure how the Ergo would cope but mostly because wearing the same stuff day in and day out in the yucky summer weather of the North East USA is never a good idea if you want to be accepted amongst people ). Spidi were great in answering all my questions about the suit and the ordering and shipping was out of this world. Further tests of their support will come if any faults arise and of course I'll post on here about my experience.


Cheers.

Overall I do think this suit will have been a good investment but only a few months of riding will truly put that assertion to the test. So if you aren't in a rush to buy just keep checking back here and I will be posting my thoughts as the suit gets more wear. If you want tried and tested right now then there are plenty of options and lots of discussion on here as to what people think of their choices. By the way, if I had needed to spend little less I would have looked at the Spidi Marathon given that the Ergo fit so well.

I hope my impressions prove helpful to you but I cannot stress enough I have only a handful of miles on this suit at the moment and am waiting till my Triumph Explorer arrives before changing that.

[keiji]

I purchased one of these recently (well the regular PRO version) and went for my first ride today (in an unexpected frog strangler).

But first, a little bit about construction. Surprisingly, the seams on the Ergo pro are pretty simple-Most are just a single stitch through ONE layer of fabric, an inseam stitch through both, and a top stitch through both. I suspect the row of stitching through one layer of fabric is to keep the seam from tearing out.. These are present in all 4 zones of the suit meaning they provide the 600kPa seam burst strength. A few of the shoulder seams use appear to use a type 5 seam below.

But what about Zone 1 & 2? The test results show a greater than 1200kPa burst result! How did they achieve this?! It turns out there is a second layer of fabric (which appears to be a kevlar mix due to some characteristic yellow fibers) sewn to the mesh lining at the elbow and shoulder. The rest of the suit is otherwise a single layer of fabric, except for a few areas with pockets etc. So the base fabric gives 2.5 sec of abrasion resistance according to the test, and the underlay brings it past 30 seconds.



I know 500d cordura has been shown to have <1 sec of abrasion according to the test, but it is never stated whether or not it is a coated or uncoated fabric, or even if it is a laminate. The Tenax fabric Spidi uses doesn't seem remarkably strong or heavy compared to my laminated 500d cordura Aerostich AD1 pants, although it could be masked by the way tenax is woven/finished. It is soft, and feels almost like a cotton.

Sometimes I wonder if it was worth putting the money down for the jacket, considering how I can find many of these construction elements in cheaper jacket. The Firstgear Rainier is very similar in construction with a single inseam and single topstitch and teramid (kevlar) underlay. However, the Rainier is missing the extra row of stitching through the one layer of fabric (and of course there is no real way of telling how strong the fabric is).

Then again, you see test results from OTHER suits using similar nylons, and the results are not so hot. Supposedly, the PWR shell Rev'it uses is supposed to be from the same base fiber that cordura is made from, only woven differently. 0.71 seconds in the test for the Sand is not so hot, so Spidi must be doing something right to hit that 2.5 seconds(assuming just the jacket meets level 2 without the liners!)

Onto the first ride and features.
I commute 120 miles a day, and one of the things that pisses me off to no end is velcro. After a year of daily use, I often find the velcro is worn out and in need of replacing, which can be a massive task due to how complicated some of these jackets are. So while the fastening system for the neck and sleeves is a bit fiddly, I think it is great that I have snaps to use. As for all the features and instructions - If I did not see a video beforehand, I would have no idea what the hell was going on with that suit. There's a lot of extra stuff that I will probably never use and would have preferred not to pay for.

In terms of water-resistance, I rode at 75mph for 60 miles in what I would call a pretty heavy rain (heavy enough to have my klim stowaway leak through the front zipper), and I'd have to say it did a pretty good job. I ride a wr250x so there is practically no weather protection. I wore the waterproof liner, and when I reached my destination, only part of the arms on the liner were somewhat moist on the outside.

Turns out that while most of the suit is a 3 layer laminate, part of the fabric on the front of the arms isn't coated at all and passes wind (and water) easily. In moggi's picture it would be the darker brown fabric in between the elbow adjusters. I suspect they did this to keep the jacket more breathable in the hot, but I think the jacket really would've been ideal if they used the laminate there.



After I got home I hung it up to dry and it is most of the way there after 2 hours or so, more or less in line with the AD1 pants I was wearing. In any case, I think you would probably be able to get away with pushing past most rain until you found a comfortable spot to put the liners in, or in the case of most of your daily trips, arrive at your destination.


VERDICT:

While I only have one day on the jacket, I'd say you could *probably* get away with a lesser suit if you were on a budget so long as you checked the key construction points (seams, reinforcements). I'm not so sure I would've paid the full price for it, but I purchased it from Motorama.it at a fairly significant discount bringing it in line with other non-certified 3 layer suits using liners and it was a no brainer at that price point.

Come back in 6 months and I will have put 15000 miles on it.