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Old 05-06-2012, 06:42 AM   #61
shaddix
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Hey Diesel, nice to see you in good spirits putting up with some of the folks here. Is there anything you'll do differently in the future in these types of situations? Like maybe there's something you could have done to avoid having to make the split-second decision to hit the culvert. I'm very interested in trying to dissect these "no way out" crashes since I'm a new rider.
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Old 05-07-2012, 07:49 AM   #62
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Hey Diesel, thanks for the service you provide. I appreciate your choice of cleaning the ditch and leaving another out of it. Hope your recovery goes well.
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:15 AM   #63
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Wow does that sound like a mess. Slow motion memories complete with memories of what the concrete tasted like. I am so sorry to hear of your crash. I hope you can get back on duty when you are ready.
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Old 05-08-2012, 01:13 PM   #64
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The fact is there was likely better options than what did happen. Even taking the ditch, a very slight trajectory change could have likely avoided the culvert. However, in the split second everything happens, sometimes things are unavoidable.

Thats the problem with the armchair quarterbacks on this thread. We all can lecture for hours proper riding technique and such, but things still happen to all of us. Those that haven't crashed, will. Those who have crashed, will again. If you think otherwise, or if you think that you can "always leave yourself an out" to avoid problems then you are fooling yourself. Should you have safety avenues? Should you leave buffers in your riding? Absolutely, but sometimes things occur that are beyond your control and a person is only able to respond so fast. We are all humans and we all make mistakes. It's going to happen.

I've crashed. It hurt. It sucked. My bike was broke. I will likely crash again someday.
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Old 05-08-2012, 05:28 PM   #65
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I don't by that.
I have been street riding since 1976 and never had an accident involving another vehicle.
I did low side in the rain (drunk) when I first started street riding, and just got a little rash.

Been riding in all sorts of weather, cross country, lots of long trips, rode to work every day for years, and never had an issue with a car or truck I could not handle.

Part of that is knowing when and where NOT to ride, part is being aware, and part is being paranoid.

It really bugs me that people think its ok to expect a crash every year or two or whatever, or that there was nothing they could do to prevent one.
I seems to me that the accidents that the rider could really not have done anything about are VERY rare.
I suppose a police chase is a different thing, I have only BEEN chased.
Around here, 99.9% of traffic stops are used to generate money, no reason to run a risk....
They are very happy to up the fine and lower the points.





Quote:
Originally Posted by oz97tj View Post
The fact is there was likely better options than what did happen. Even taking the ditch, a very slight trajectory change could have likely avoided the culvert. However, in the split second everything happens, sometimes things are unavoidable.

Thats the problem with the armchair quarterbacks on this thread. We all can lecture for hours proper riding technique and such, but things still happen to all of us. Those that haven't crashed, will. Those who have crashed, will again. If you think otherwise, or if you think that you can "always leave yourself an out" to avoid problems then you are fooling yourself. Should you have safety avenues? Should you leave buffers in your riding? Absolutely, but sometimes things occur that are beyond your control and a person is only able to respond so fast. We are all humans and we all make mistakes. It's going to happen.

I've crashed. It hurt. It sucked. My bike was broke. I will likely crash again someday.
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:17 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by mr. matteeanne View Post
Take it to JoMomma, your posts do not belong in face plant. If you ever wreck you will know why.
If and when he does crash, we all can jump in line to tell him how he made bad decisions and how he should have done things differently. Then maybe he'll understand how ridiculous he sounds now.

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I don't by that.
I have been street riding since 1976 and never had an accident involving another vehicle.
I did low side in the rain (drunk) when I first started street riding, and just got a little rash.

Been riding in all sorts of weather, cross country, lots of long trips, rode to work every day for years, and never had an issue with a car or truck I could not handle.

Part of that is knowing when and where NOT to ride, part is being aware, and part is being paranoid.

It really bugs me that people think its ok to expect a crash every year or two or whatever, or that there was nothing they could do to prevent one.
I seems to me that the accidents that the rider could really not have done anything about are VERY rare.
I suppose a police chase is a different thing, I have only BEEN chased.
Around here, 99.9% of traffic stops are used to generate money, no reason to run a risk....
They are very happy to up the fine and lower the points.
You are reading into things a bit and being a bit too literal with my statement. Having worked many motorcycle accident scenes professionally, I can say first hand that most are operator error and could have been avoided. So I believe you are correct. I also don't think anyone should expect to crash or be ok with it, and therefore should do everything in their power to being a better more prepared rider.

My point was that there are times when things aren't avoidable. Even more specific, a series of events begins to happen and a person is unable to compute the data and respond appropriately in the time frame provided and the outcome is sometimes unavoidable. This could be a deer running out in from of you, or a car pulling out, or as simple as hitting a oil spot on the road. There are far too many variables to predict every thing that will happen during any given ride to always be prepared. In the OPs case, simply changing the trajectory of his bike merely inches could have allowed him to walk away with nothing more than scratches, or killed him. Or maybe not. But he did what he was able to do at the time.

I made the statement about those who have crashed and those that will to make a point only. If any of us really believed we will be in a major accident every so often I'd bet most of us wouldn't be riding. The thing is we all need to realize that we aren't bulletproof and things CAN happen no matter how prepared you attempt to be.

I hope that all makes sense. Either way, shit happens. I should also mention, that in my accident I crashed because I became distracted. There were no other vehicles around. I was about 20 miles from another living human to my knowledge. I believe I'm a pretty experienced rider with lots of various training in different types of riding. I would also like to believe I was prepared and had an out or wasn't riding over my head. The reality is a series of minor things snowballed before I knew what the hell happened and was able to respond. Despite my best efforts in trying to regain control, I was bouncing across pavement and then into trees before I knew it. What's odd is I've been on that road too many times to count and have pushed bikes through way worse scenerios numerous times without issue. That time gravity won. So plan to have an out, but it doesn't always work as planned.

oz97tj screwed with this post 05-08-2012 at 06:28 PM
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:27 AM   #67
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The bike in question was purchased by me from a Corpus Christi PD officer. He'd put about 72k miles on it in service to his city.

Gee--that's another city that doesn't provide motors to the officers. Unpossible!
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:28 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calimari View Post
Amazing the blowhards that actually believe that crashes only happen to lesser riders, to mere mortals without the blowhard's superhuman skills and intelligence. Doubly amazing that these blowhards actually have the hubris to commit such outrageously grandiose thoughts to writing, repeatedly.

Feel better, officer.
So, you don't believe that he could have or should have done something different and that this was avoidable? I hope this guy heals fast and well... And learns something from this.

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Old 05-09-2012, 09:24 PM   #69
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So, you don't believe that he could have or should have done something different and that this was avoidable? I hope this guy heals fast and well... And learns something from this.
I think most accidents, with very few exceptions, can be avoided or at least mitigated and involve some element of human error on the part of the rider, especially when examined with the luxury of hindsight. And I've never crashed street riding. So does this all mean that a smug, superior, delighted scolding from me is warranted ever time there is a crash, as if it could never happen to me and as if such is not exceedingly bad form?

Hardly.
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Old 05-09-2012, 09:37 PM   #70
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Congratulations on keeping your life.

More about combat surgeons and how they're keeping vets alive that previously would've died under the massive trauma received:

Heard this last year on NPR's Fresh Air, a combat reporter, David Wood on battlefield medicine:

http://www.npr.org/2011/10/13/141266...en-they-return

And the 10-part series on Huffington Post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/b...he-battlefield
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Old 05-09-2012, 11:20 PM   #71
ObiJohn
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Sometimes you can do everything right, and still lose.

Sometimes there is no 'out.'

Sometimes things are beyond your control, so you do what you can with the best info you have and with the limited time you have... and you either have a close call that makes you marvel at your supreme skill and judgment, or you wake up asking yourself, "What the hell happened?"

I've been in one serious wreck. There was no out, even if I could have made a decision differently earlier. Maybe there was a subtle clue, but I recognized that only in hindsight and it would not have registered without the wreck and subsequent pondering... in short, useless at the time and even now. It amazes me how fast a person can flip through all of the options, make a decision, and commit to a course of action... in my case in way less than a second... and then knowing that you're fucked keep your head in the game and not give up until the bitter end. In my case there was no time for fear even with the realization that 'this is going to be bad.'

Those who were uninvolved like to think that there was something that could have been done better, that the accident could have been avoided, if only... and that is just another form of whistling past the graveyard, of rejecting the reality of 'there but for the grace of God go I'. It's how humans deal with cruel capricious fate: 'it couldn't happen to me!'

Heal quickly, OP... and for others don't ever think it can't happen to you.
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Old 05-10-2012, 12:49 AM   #72
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Diesel that's a terrible crash. Glad you're on the mend and hope you get back to 100% and riding again, if that's what you choose to do.

The value of a forum like this is that we get to learn from the experiences of others, including mistakes. I've tasted pavement three times, twice my fault, once not my fault in the legal sense. In all three there were things I could have done differently. Frank critiques of the accident reports posted here add value. They can and should be given tactfully in the spirit of helping us all keep safe. My $0.02.
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Old 05-10-2012, 04:55 AM   #73
NJ-Brett
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All I can say is I have been riding a long time, and have put on a lot of miles, I do not live in a safe motorcycle riding state, but one that is filled with millions of clueless drivers, yet I have never had a crash involving a car or truck.

I do not know if I am a very good rider, except from the standpoint of not crashing on the street.
Over 30 years, and I have been to about 40 states on a bike, in all weather, and no accidents.

I do not think they could not get me, there are some rare situations where there is no time to react and no pre warning, but I tend to think they are very rare.
On the other hand, I think there are plenty of riders who are not really paying attention as much as they should be, and not using caution in places where they should, and are even riding in places where they should not be if they want to stay safe.
I think most motorcycle police are likely better then average riders but placed in high risk situations most of the time, and suspect the crash rate is very high. Plenty of police are injured in car wrecks, bikes must be worse.

In normal situations, I expect a car pulling out and would tend to be ready, or slow down, or get over, or plan an out, but I suppose chasing someone might change things.
I would think he had to try and get a tag number, figure out how many people of what sort are in the car/truck, and do other cop type things involved in pulling someone over.
I think that would push me over the edge, too much stuff to do to stay safe.
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Old 05-10-2012, 06:16 AM   #74
AceRph
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Good grief. I trimmed more crap out of this thread than all other FP threads put together.

Knock that crap off.
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Old 05-10-2012, 06:58 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by AceRph View Post
Good grief. I trimmed more crap out of this thread than all other FP threads put together.

Knock that crap off.

Thanks Ace, i've bit my tongue a few times after being tempted, and actually responded to some of the "experts" who've posted in this thread..

To the OP, thanks for your service and best wishes for a speedy recovery, I'm no fan of speed traps, but speeding around kids or in school zones is one thing that really pisses me off, and you've likely already saved a few kids lives, which is a noble cause no matter how you slice it.

I don't understand the armchair analysis from those who weren't there, who made huge leaps of logic, and really stupid statements. 2 lane roads in Texas aren't very forgiving, many don't even have shoulders, and have trees inches from the road. The man was run off the road, and you don't always have an out in that situation.

ymmv
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I've yet to see a poor person driving a real gas hog......
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