ADVrider

Go Back   ADVrider > Riding > Regional Forums > The Rockies It's all downhill from here...
User Name
Password
Register Inmates Photos Site Rules Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-11-2012, 07:37 AM   #17656
miatre
So yeah about that.
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Oddometer: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by pilo View Post
Does the kick starter engage in the same spot it did before and spring back to the same spot? I've put them in wrong and they make a nutty sound.

By the way, the pressure builds pretty quickly, but when I go in to the head/valves I always dump a little oil around cam just to make sure there is enough there on startup.
The first time I put it in the kick starter would move forward. The second time I put it back together it seems to stay in place.

I am going over everything in my head. I remember when I was test cycling the motor after putting all the working parts together to make sure nothing binded, that the compression cam was making noise.
I was thinking about it in the shower and haven't looked under the valve cover but I think this is the next place im going to look. The manual doesn't say much about it.

On the positive note, the motor starts super nice and with out hesitation unlike before. :-)

Again thanks for the help.
miatre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2012, 09:08 AM   #17657
miatre
So yeah about that.
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Oddometer: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proud Highway View Post
Another thing you may want to check is whether the cam bearings are seated properly. When I was assembling the top end on my 250x the grooves in the cam bearings did not want to seat in those races by themselves.

Thanks for the suggestion. I know full well of what you talk about. I had to take them out several times getting the shims with in correct number. I will look at that later today just in case I messed up. Pretty certain that the caps were sitting flush with the head part.

miatre screwed with this post 05-11-2012 at 09:22 AM
miatre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2012, 02:20 PM   #17658
trackhead
Utard Wankster
 
trackhead's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Transient
Oddometer: 2,754
Does the noise go away, or lessen with increased RPM?
trackhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2012, 03:48 PM   #17659
miatre
So yeah about that.
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Oddometer: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by trackhead View Post
Does the noise go away, or lessen with increased RPM?
The noise increase's with speed.
So.. I took the valve cover off, poked and prodded. The valves are in tolerance all the way around. I cycled the motor through the strokes via the timing mark access, and didnt get the loud clank but a small one. It was caused by the compression cam. I took this out completely to eliminate probable causes.

I hooked the battery up and cycled the engine through use of starter motor. No loud or small clank.
I put an oil collector up to keep oil from everywhere and put the spark plug in and started it. I get loud clank. The noise seems to happen with a bit more rpm than turning by hand or electric starter.
If i was a guessing person I would now say it has something to do with the exhaust lobe/rocker arm.

Im too the point of completely disassembling the top end and starting again.

Here is a a hard description of the cycling of the cam. From 7-5:30 the cam moves smooth. Even with contact to the exhaust lobes its smooth. From the moment there is contact with the intake lifters there is 2 small pressure restrictions and then its smooth. Does this sound normal, about the pressure points on the cam lifters?

Thanks for the help guys and sorry for plugging up the BS thread with my tech questions.
miatre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2012, 04:52 PM   #17660
frog OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
frog's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Location: Heber City, UT
Oddometer: 2,796
Quote:
Originally Posted by miatre View Post
The noise increase's with speed.
So.. I took the valve cover off, poked and prodded. The valves are in tolerance all the way around. I cycled the motor through the strokes via the timing mark access, and didnt get the loud clank but a small one. It was caused by the compression cam. I took this out completely to eliminate probable causes.

I hooked the battery up and cycled the engine through use of starter motor. No loud or small clank.
I put an oil collector up to keep oil from everywhere and put the spark plug in and started it. I get loud clank. The noise seems to happen with a bit more rpm than turning by hand or electric starter.
If i was a guessing person I would now say it has something to do with the exhaust lobe/rocker arm.

Im too the point of completely disassembling the top end and starting again.

Here is a a hard description of the cycling of the cam. From 7-5:30 the cam moves smooth. Even with contact to the exhaust lobes its smooth. From the moment there is contact with the intake lifters there is 2 small pressure restrictions and then its smooth. Does this sound normal, about the pressure points on the cam lifters?

Thanks for the help guys and sorry for plugging up the BS thread with my tech questions.
Is the clank slower or faster Hz then the "pop" of the exhaust coming out the tailpipe?
__________________
Thank you MX1WEST, Highway Dirt Bikes Lindsay Machine, Smart Performance, SPS for the Support
257x Solo Baja 1000
If I had not some strength of will I would make a first class drunkard--Shackleton
frog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2012, 11:34 AM   #17661
miatre
So yeah about that.
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Oddometer: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by frog View Post
Is the clank slower or faster Hz then the "pop" of the exhaust coming out the tailpipe?
Not certain what Hz is.

Well if you want a mechanics drama story.. read on. If not the updates are at the bottom paragraph.

My CRF Short story. Bought the bike with a hot cams in it. I rode the bike last season on and off and noticed the burning of the oil and often hard starts. Checked the valves probably too late and they were way off. I decided to open the machine up to see what would cause the burning and was expecting to replace piston and rings. Wrong. I have some cracked and missing valve seats hence the purchase of the new 250 r head. So read the prior posts to understand the current assembly experiences.

Well late last night i decide to pull out the current hot cams and replace it with the stock cam that was given to me by prior owner. Assembled it, started it, and wham... we are good to go, it purrs as it should. I should have stopped there. But no.. i wanted the spiffy more powerful cam and was curious as to the problem. I stopped working and waited until this morning. I took it out and measured tolerances between the 2 and seen they had big differences. I reduced the shims by one as I had installed them more on the tight side and not the loose side. Got the hot cams back in and buttoned up and started. Crazy loud same drive me crazy noise. I say screw it and start to put the Honda original on in. Once that decision was made i was happy with an end in site. In the process of assembly i drop the cam chain. No biggie get a pick an pull it up and re-assemble as I have done no less than 10 times before. button it up and go to turn it over by hand. It seizes up.. WTF
I go look at the marks and they are off. pissed as hell i uninstall everything and reassemble everything verifying everything 2 times. button it up and turn it over. It seizes up again. Again... wtf. I step away to consider my assembly and think i must have dropped something. So i go to disassemble the cam and chain to rotate the bottom end alone. With the cam off and turning the crank it locks up. Turns out i dropped the chain off the bottom gear. So i pull off the left hand assembly to realign the cam chain and leave the bottom case off during the whole process. Get the chain cam and other bits and pieces on yet again and rotate it by hand. Boom we are golden. Again.. end in site, again. Well i button up the bottom left hand side again and check everything again then rotate it again and all is smooth. Its now time to hear this baby purr.

I add oil my temp oil splash guards and insert the spark plug wire and turn the key push the e-start button and the motor spins and spins. It spins so nice with the starter pushing it. Problem is it should be running like the other 7 times it has in the past 24 hours after being all buttoned up.

Frustrated, I check fuel, yup got fuel. Check air, yup not in a void of that at the moment. check spark, no spark. Im assuming I did something to the wiring along the way when I removed the bottom left hand case. I reseated the connections and checked with prod light and nothing. So now I am off to get a multi meter. Fun stuff. Thanks again for the suggestions so far.
miatre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2012, 12:35 PM   #17662
frog OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
frog's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Location: Heber City, UT
Oddometer: 2,796
Quote:
Originally Posted by miatre View Post
Not certain what Hz is.

Well if you want a mechanics drama story.. read on. If not the updates are at the bottom paragraph.

My CRF Short story. Bought the bike with a hot cams in it. I rode the bike last season on and off and noticed the burning of the oil and often hard starts. Checked the valves probably too late and they were way off. I decided to open the machine up to see what would cause the burning and was expecting to replace piston and rings. Wrong. I have some cracked and missing valve seats hence the purchase of the new 250 r head. So read the prior posts to understand the current assembly experiences.

Well late last night i decide to pull out the current hot cams and replace it with the stock cam that was given to me by prior owner. Assembled it, started it, and wham... we are good to go, it purrs as it should. I should have stopped there. But no.. i wanted the spiffy more powerful cam and was curious as to the problem. I stopped working and waited until this morning. I took it out and measured tolerances between the 2 and seen they had big differences. I reduced the shims by one as I had installed them more on the tight side and not the loose side. Got the hot cams back in and buttoned up and started. Crazy loud same drive me crazy noise. I say screw it and start to put the Honda original on in. Once that decision was made i was happy with an end in site. In the process of assembly i drop the cam chain. No biggie get a pick an pull it up and re-assemble as I have done no less than 10 times before. button it up and go to turn it over by hand. It seizes up.. WTF
I go look at the marks and they are off. pissed as hell i uninstall everything and reassemble everything verifying everything 2 times. button it up and turn it over. It seizes up again. Again... wtf. I step away to consider my assembly and think i must have dropped something. So i go to disassemble the cam and chain to rotate the bottom end alone. With the cam off and turning the crank it locks up. Turns out i dropped the chain off the bottom gear. So i pull off the left hand assembly to realign the cam chain and leave the bottom case off during the whole process. Get the chain cam and other bits and pieces on yet again and rotate it by hand. Boom we are golden. Again.. end in site, again. Well i button up the bottom left hand side again and check everything again then rotate it again and all is smooth. Its now time to hear this baby purr.

I add oil my temp oil splash guards and insert the spark plug wire and turn the key push the e-start button and the motor spins and spins. It spins so nice with the starter pushing it. Problem is it should be running like the other 7 times it has in the past 24 hours after being all buttoned up.

Frustrated, I check fuel, yup got fuel. Check air, yup not in a void of that at the moment. check spark, no spark. Im assuming I did something to the wiring along the way when I removed the bottom left hand case. I reseated the connections and checked with prod light and nothing. So now I am off to get a multi meter. Fun stuff. Thanks again for the suggestions so far.
Hz=frequency. Sometimes you can pinpoint an engine noise based on how many revolutions the engine does per clank or knock. The valves, piston/crank, cam chain etc all move at different speeds.
__________________
Thank you MX1WEST, Highway Dirt Bikes Lindsay Machine, Smart Performance, SPS for the Support
257x Solo Baja 1000
If I had not some strength of will I would make a first class drunkard--Shackleton
frog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2012, 01:29 PM   #17663
miatre
So yeah about that.
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Oddometer: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by frog View Post
Hz=frequency. Sometimes you can pinpoint an engine noise based on how many revolutions the engine does per clank or knock. The valves, piston/crank, cam chain etc all move at different speeds.
I understand now. Thanks for the explanation and it makes sense.
miatre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2012, 04:05 PM   #17664
frog OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
frog's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Location: Heber City, UT
Oddometer: 2,796
Did an oil change on the ktm today. Its a little more involved then a jap bike.
__________________
Thank you MX1WEST, Highway Dirt Bikes Lindsay Machine, Smart Performance, SPS for the Support
257x Solo Baja 1000
If I had not some strength of will I would make a first class drunkard--Shackleton
frog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2012, 05:09 PM   #17665
SuperSize
Gnarly Adventurer
 
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: Salt Lake City
Oddometer: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by frog View Post
Did an oil change on the ktm today. Its a little more involved then a jap bike.

KTM manual states:
Step 1 remove footpegs
__________________
XR650R
WR250F
Super Tenere
SuperSize is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2012, 05:29 PM   #17666
harcus
Beastly Adventurer
 
harcus's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Edge of the Wasatch
Oddometer: 1,333
Quote:
Originally Posted by frog View Post
Did an oil change on the ktm today. Its a little more involved then a jap bike.
Looks like you changed the oil to air...Lighter that way...
__________________
Want Creative Adventure Products? - See Globetrottin.com

Current rides - '14 KTM 1190 R Adv <2k, '07 990Adv 39k, '12 500EXC 7k, '09 GasGas 300 Raga
harcus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2012, 05:48 PM   #17667
harcus
Beastly Adventurer
 
harcus's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Edge of the Wasatch
Oddometer: 1,333
Spring

Since spring is here it is time to tune up the BADB. Here is the start...



The front wheel resembled a decagon so it was replaced with a rounder version from Warp 9. This is a 1.8 in wide rim vs the stock 2.2 in item. Theoretically much tougher. Also, a new 606 replaced the howling TKC80...



And, since the 908 had become a slick, a new Motosteel Teraflex was installed...



I read every tire thread on this forum. There was absolute consistance: no one agreed on anything. So, my conclusion was...pay your money & take your chance.

It will be interesting to see how the T'flex does. These knobs are .76 in high & quite long. Will they stay attached on a 90+ HP BADB? At least it is 1/2 the price of a 908 and they are quieter on pavement that the previous combo. As always, this is a test...

PS: I have a plow on order.
__________________
Want Creative Adventure Products? - See Globetrottin.com

Current rides - '14 KTM 1190 R Adv <2k, '07 990Adv 39k, '12 500EXC 7k, '09 GasGas 300 Raga
harcus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2012, 06:56 PM   #17668
HickOnACrick
Groovinator
 
HickOnACrick's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Location: Utarded in Lubbuttock
Oddometer: 2,504
Quote:
Originally Posted by harcus View Post
The front wheel resembled a decagon so it was replaced with a rounder version from Warp 9.
Is Warp 9 making wheels for BADBs now?
__________________
KTM 500 XCW, BMW K1600GTL
950 SER 300 XC
Composites 101
Utarded in Baja
Circumcising Utah

HickOnACrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2012, 07:08 PM   #17669
frog OP
Beastly Adventurer
 
frog's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2004
Location: Heber City, UT
Oddometer: 2,796
Quote:
Originally Posted by harcus View Post
Since spring is here it is time to tune up the BADB. Here is the start...



The front wheel resembled a decagon so it was replaced with a rounder version from Warp 9. This is a 1.8 in wide rim vs the stock 2.2 in item. Theoretically much tougher. Also, a new 606 replaced the howling TKC80...



And, since the 908 had become a slick, a new Motosteel Teraflex was installed...



I read every tire thread on this forum. There was absolute consistance: no one agreed on anything. So, my conclusion was...pay your money & take your chance.

It will be interesting to see how the T'flex does. These knobs are .76 in high & quite long. Will they stay attached on a 90+ HP BADB? At least it is 1/2 the price of a 908 and they are quieter on pavement that the previous combo. As always, this is a test...

PS: I have a plow on order.
With 908s costing more then an expensive hooker I'll be interested in what you think of it.
__________________
Thank you MX1WEST, Highway Dirt Bikes Lindsay Machine, Smart Performance, SPS for the Support
257x Solo Baja 1000
If I had not some strength of will I would make a first class drunkard--Shackleton
frog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2012, 08:18 PM   #17670
harcus
Beastly Adventurer
 
harcus's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Edge of the Wasatch
Oddometer: 1,333
Quote:
Originally Posted by HickOnACrick View Post
Is Warp 9 making wheels for BADBs now?
So to speak. They got the DID rim from Buchanans & anodized it here, laced it on. Nice work, nice wheel. The wheel & tire all balanced in within 1/2 oz. I think they have long term plans to fab their own rims but they are not there yet. Kevin says he has been running this same rime for some time on his BADBs & they seem to stand up better than anything else.

So far, so good...
__________________
Want Creative Adventure Products? - See Globetrottin.com

Current rides - '14 KTM 1190 R Adv <2k, '07 990Adv 39k, '12 500EXC 7k, '09 GasGas 300 Raga
harcus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Share

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

.
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Times are GMT -7.   It's 03:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ADVrider 2011-2015